Emily Lance threatened after urinating on US flag on 4 July - Polidicks

[QUOTE=vevota;52442028]Like others have said, desecrating the flag is okay as it demonstrates a broad spectrum of feelings towards a government. I just don't believe this was a good course of action to protest by. Urinating onto the flag shows barbarism of the offender. Instead of getting the original message across, it instead portrays an act of vulgarity.[/QUOTE] Who cares its a ducking flag. Only america worships fabric more then their own freedom

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;52441653]Is it really surprising she's being threatened though? Was this wholly unexpected? It is the American flag we are talking about and if past incidents are anything to go off of she should have expected some psychos to make death threats. She should have chosen a more tactful manner of protest.[/QUOTE] Are you for real right now? Her problem assuming she's telling the truth appears to be that her family is being threatened when they don't even condone what she did rather than the fact that she's getting threats in the first place - but let's not even for a second imply it's anything other than completely ridiculous and uncceptable in this day and age for people to threaten rape and death over a piece of god damn fabric. It's asinine that some of the same people that will cry about free speech at every opportunity will explode over someone exercising that free speech to deface a cheap flag like it's only okay if they aren't the ones being disrespected, or something. Also I feel like purposefully trying to be tactful defies the point of protest? If you want to say "I'm extremely unhappy with the US" you can't get much more direct than burning the flag - people get angry about protest being vulgar and disruptive when getting your attention is the entire point of what they're doing in the first place.

People who send rape and murder threats to her are probably the same kind of people who destroy bibles/qurans to get a kick out of the religious community.

Patriotism: "Woohoo, I happened to be born on this particular piece of rock! Let's be proud of the ideals of people I have never met and their achievements that I had no part in!"

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52441817]It means a lot, and I'm not going to explain how because those who know how respect it, and those who don't rarely care.[/QUOTE] Lol, I love your condescending tone throughout these posts. "You disagree with me because you are fundamentally flawed and simply lack the capacity to see things my way" I know the concept of freedom of expression trumping the rights of inanimate objects escapes nationalists like you, but i'm not going to explain how important it is because those who already understand why respect it, and those who don't rarely care how wrong they are. How'd I do?

People who worship the flag to me seem very unamerican. The point you're supposed to be proud of is the ideals of the country and how we got to where we are now. Worshiping a symbol pretty much is the opposite, since it's damn near worshiping the US Govt itself.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-IrzJqfTQA[/media] relevant except with piss

I think more things like this should be done tbh. Nothing wrong with messing up a flag

[QUOTE=UnknownDude;52442342]Patriotism: "Woohoo, I happened to be born on this particular piece of rock! Let's be proud of the ideals of people I have never met and their achievements that I had no part in!"[/QUOTE] You're right, people aren't allowed to be proud of their heritage, the world is sad and meaningless and what's the point.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52443876]You're right, people aren't allowed to be proud of their heritage, the world is sad and meaningless and what's the point.[/QUOTE] What is there to be proud of? You were born where you were completely by random chance, and unless you're loaded you're probably stuck there too. Nations are a social construct, and you had no part in their creation. So what is there to be proud of? That you exist?

[QUOTE=UnknownDude;52443934]What is there to be proud of? You were born where you were completely by random chance, and unless you're loaded you're probably stuck there too. Nations are a social construct, and you had no part in their creation. So what is there to be proud of? That you exist?[/QUOTE] It's a system that gives you safety and opportunity to change your life as you see fit. No it's not perfect but having nothing is sure as fuck not better. Yes you should be proud of your country instead of being an edgelord.

[QUOTE=jiggu;52443948]It's a system that gives you safety and opportunity to change your life as you see fit. No it's not perfect but having nothing is sure as fuck not better. Yes you should be proud of your country instead of being an edgelord.[/QUOTE] The only oppurtunity you have to change your living situation is through money. And you're only safe if you fit the mold. I'd rather be an "edgelord" if it meant resisting nationalistic brainwashing. I would rather have a world without nations and borders. Feel proud over your pointless heritage if you want. I have my own, subjectively better ways of deriving meaning from life. [editline]7th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=FinalHunter;52443960]I wouldn't expect you to be patriotic considering your country has next to no global influence.[/QUOTE] Patriotism is strong in Norway, global influence doesn't matter. I just avoid it and live my own life. The only things I'm proud of are my own achievements.

[QUOTE=UnknownDude;52444027]The only oppurtunity you have to change your living situation is through money. And you're only safe if you fit the mold. I'd rather be an "edgelord" if it meant resisting nationalistic brainwashing. I would rather have a world without nations and borders. [B]Feel proud over your pointless heritage if you want. I have my own, subjectively better ways of deriving meaning from life.[/B] [editline]7th July 2017[/editline] Patriotism is strong in Norway, global influence doesn't matter. I just avoid it and live my own life. The only things I'm proud of are my own achievements.[/QUOTE] Holy crap it's like reading tweets from Richard Dawkins, you are so smug because you're resisting this "nationalistic brainwashing"

I think having pride in one's country is fine, there are certainly a lot of American values and institutions that I think are awesome, but there's a point at which it can certainly be overdone. If you reach the point where you're threatening someone for fucking with a symbol of your nation as a political statement because you're 'patriotic' and they're 'not patriotic', you're missing the forest for the trees.

[QUOTE=john711;52441608]Its not fabric to lots of people, even though it is to you. :/[/QUOTE] The fact that someone gets death threats for something like that just means you should piss on it even more, because if a flag is making you do something as rash as threatning a person in any way, then it means what it represents went down the toilet long ago. You can call someone whatever over doing it, because hey its obvious its kind of a shitty attitude, even if its just a piece of cloth, but a death threat? Holy shit. Reminds me of when I was threatened with whatever was gonna be done to me upon being seen, when I told a "friend" of mine his car sucked and made fun of it and him. Who the fuck acts like that over a car?

[QUOTE=froztshock;52444116]I think having pride in one's country is fine, there are certainly a lot of American values and institutions that I think are awesome, but there's a point at which it can certainly be overdone. If you reach the point where you're threatening someone for fucking with a symbol of your nation as a political statement because you're 'patriotic' and they're 'not patriotic', you're missing the forest for the trees.[/QUOTE] I think beign happy about it is much better. Like, I feel happy about living in Denmark, and I'll gladly help to make sure other people do so too. But that doesn't mean that it's something that I pride in

[QUOTE=UnknownDude;52444027] Feel proud over your pointless heritage if you want. I have my own, subjectively better ways of deriving meaning from life.[/QUOTE] Where is this deep seated anger coming from? How is it "nationalistic brainwashing" for someone to go "I like the country that I am born in, I am proud of its achievements"

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52444136]Where is this deep seated anger coming from? How is it "nationalistic brainwashing" for someone to go "I like the country that I am born in, I am proud of its achievements"[/QUOTE] Nation envy

Holy fuck why are the only two options available to some people 1) Be a nationalistic douchebag who thinks it's OK to send death threats to people over a fucking flag or 2) Be a supreme edgelord who doesn't see any value in nationalistic pride or identity? Fucking be proud of the country you were born in if you agree with its values, but don't be afraid to criticize it just because people are pressuring you into feeling like a traitor. It's not a binary thing. You [I]can[/I] love your country and its history while also acknowledging that sometimes it makes horrifically stupid mistakes, and this "with us or against us" attitude isn't helping anyone.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52443876]You're right, people aren't allowed to be proud of their heritage, the world is sad and meaningless and what's the point.[/QUOTE] Unless the flag got pregnant for nine months and you popped out, you're not being proud of your heritage, you're being proud of a flag. Heritage isn't a flag, it's your family. America isn't a flag, it's a nation. If you value the flag more than you value the freedoms and values that the flag symbolizes, to the point that you'll harass and threaten to murder your countrymen over that flag, you care more about the symbol than the people the symbol represents.

[QUOTE=vevota;52442028]Like others have said, desecrating the flag is okay as it demonstrates a broad spectrum of feelings towards a government. I just don't believe this was a good course of action to protest by. Urinating onto the flag shows barbarism of the offender. Instead of getting the original message across, it instead portrays an act of vulgarity.[/QUOTE] i love how actively burning and destroying a flag is somehow far less horrible than taking a wazz on it lol. like.. ????? how is that comparable?? urine isnt that horrendous. [editline]7th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52443876]You're right, people aren't allowed to be proud of their heritage, the world is sad and meaningless and what's the point.[/QUOTE] lol i'm from the united kingdom and of chinese descent and i can safely say for me to be proud of my heritage would basically be me being proud of several hundred if not thousands of years of subjugation in the name of a family that had power simply because they were lucky enough to sprout from certain wombs. maybe this gives me additional perspective on the folly of nationalism, but i honestly can't look back to the last few hundred odd years of history and heritage of any real nation and say that any of it is like.. something to worship. frankly history exists and should be remembered because it teaches us what doesn't work. it teaches us the folly of our design and the evil we can accomplish. [editline]8th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52444136]Where is this deep seated anger coming from? How is it "nationalistic brainwashing" for someone to go "I like the country that I am born in, I am proud of its achievements"[/QUOTE] i wouldn't think it were brainwashing myself if it weren't for the fact that american children are still made to recite the pledge of allegiance every day.

[QUOTE=Sky King;52442229]Who cares its a ducking flag. Only america worships fabric more then their own freedom[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Reds;52441508]Oh no, think of the poor fabric.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=geel9;52441466]Regardless of how much you dislike someone desecrating the US flag, your response should never escalate beyond "well that's a bad thing". Actually caring that much about a piece of fabric is ludicorus.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=SIRIUS;52442937]I think more things like this should be done tbh. Nothing wrong with messing up a flag[/QUOTE] Amazing the amount of people who support this. She shouldn't have pissed on the flag, there shouldn't be death threats being flung, but this "it's just a dumb fabric XD" argument is childish. How dare anyone be patriotic or respectful of the country they live in.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52444136]Where is this deep seated anger coming from? How is it "nationalistic brainwashing" for someone to go "I like the country that I am born in, I am proud of its achievements"[/QUOTE] I am arguing from a philosophical perspective on a position that I am significantly more radical on than most of Facepunch. And this perspective, based on my own experiences and observations, is that patriotism will quickly make one blind to the shortcomings and atrocities of the nation you're priding yourself of living in. I've come to the conclusion that these aspects you have pretty much no control over. Thus there is no point in feeling pride nor shame over anything your nation have been responsible for. And therefore I think humanity would be better off without hierarchies, nations and borders. But I'm speaking for myself and I don't wish to impose this worldview upon others, I just wish humanity will steer itself to the right direction. There is no deep-seated anger, these are only thoughts.

[QUOTE=Sombrero;52444429]Amazing the amount of people who support this. She shouldn't have pissed on the flag, there shouldn't be death threats being flung, but this "it's just a dumb fabric XD" argument is childish. How dare anyone be patriotic or respectful of the country they live in.[/QUOTE] Because getting more than a little upset about the flag is ridiculous. As other people have explained in the thread, damaging or defacing the flag in itself isn't unpatriotic in the slightest, as the very foundation our country was built on was the freedom to criticize or protest our leadership in any way you see fit. You don't fight for the damn flag, you fight for the ideal the flag stands for which happens to include the freedom to do whatever you want with the flag without fear of repercussion.

[QUOTE=Sombrero;52444429]Amazing the amount of people who support this. She shouldn't have pissed on the flag, there shouldn't be death threats being flung, but this "it's just a dumb fabric XD" argument is childish. How dare anyone be patriotic or respectful of the country they live in.[/QUOTE] Respecting the flag isn't patriotic in and of itself. The flag is just a symbol, and symbolically pissing on it or burning it isn't "anti-American," because the values that the flag symbolizes [I]guarantee[/I] your right to shit all over it if you so please. This chick disrespected the symbol, not the values of our nation. The people responding in defense of the symbol disrespected the values that our nation was founded on. Which matters more? The design of the flag, or what it represents?

[QUOTE=UnknownDude;52444443]I am arguing from a philosophical perspective on a position that I am significantly more radical on than most of Facepunch. And this perspective, based on my own experiences and observations, is that patriotism will quickly make one blind to the shortcomings and atrocities of the nation you're priding yourself of living in. I've come to the conclusion that these aspects you have pretty much no control over. Thus there is no point in feeling pride nor shame over anything your nation have been responsible for. And therefore I think humanity would be better off without hierarchies, nations and borders. But I'm speaking for myself and I don't wish to impose this worldview upon others, I just wish humanity will steer itself to the right direction. There is no deep-seated anger, these are only thoughts.[/QUOTE] Sure this makes sense and I agree with you on some aspects. You candislike nationalism and patriotism and the very idea of nations and borders, but this: [QUOTE=UnknownDude;52444027] Feel proud over your pointless heritage if you want. I have my own, subjectively better ways of deriving meaning from life.[/QUOTE] just sounds pretentious and edgy and is not at all the right way to argue your side, atleast imo.

If the flag means a lot to you then just don't desecrate your own and don't give any thought to what other people do to theirs.

Really don't get respect for flags

[QUOTE=jiggu;52443948]Yes you should be proud of your country instead of being an edgelord.[/QUOTE] not for you to say, boyo i'm proud of my achievements, my skills, things i had a part in. being proud of the place you *happened* to be born in is like being proud because you have a great chin

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52443960]I wouldn't expect you to be patriotic considering your country has next to no global influence.[/QUOTE] Are you kidding me?