Ukraine allows commanders to shoot own soldiers to control them - Polidicks

[QUOTE=damnatus;47081969]though something tells me it'd turn out better for the people none of that "muh europe" ofcourse, but if I had to choose between this and constant shelling..[/QUOTE] Well yeah maybe in hindsight because I doubt anyone back then thought Russia would invade Ukraine.

[QUOTE=Swineflu;47082307]Not afraid of being drafted, they were being drafted. The Ukrainian state first went to the minorities, then the major Ukrainian cities. After being treated like shit by the Ukrainian state, they don't see any reason to help. So they're running here.[/QUOTE] Holy shit that's terrible if true. It doesn't get any better at all.

[QUOTE=gudman;47082337]Holy shit that's terrible if true. It doesn't get any better at all.[/QUOTE] The state wanted to send them to war even from July last year. They protested and weren't forced then. [video=youtube;sQboZoW5AYk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQboZoW5AYk[/video] But as the situation is getting worse and worse they knew they were gonna be forced this time, so they are running.

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;47082312]Well yeah maybe in hindsight because I doubt anyone back then thought Russia would invade Ukraine.[/QUOTE] Btw, I hope for few ukranian posters here to confirm this video's caption for those who unable to translate. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0x0mnrq9j4[/media] This is Ukraine for ya people. Confirirming russian presence and denying it at the same time. True Land of Confusion.

[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;47082397]Just like Putin was denying Russian soldiers in Crimea before he suddenly decided to state the obvious? [/QUOTE] Still can't quite wrap my head around that one... [b]why[/b]

[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;47082397]Just like Putin was denying Russian soldiers in Crimea before he suddenly decided to state the obvious? I'm not saying K[B]yi[/B]v is right or wrong, but Russia sure as fuck isn't a bit better. If anything, it's Russia that keeps fuelling this idiotic war.[/QUOTE] Where ya saw my comment as comparison by any chance? I just posted it to show that Ukranian command is equally unworthy of trust, not nesessary worse but certainly no better. Jee, sometimes it's like if you forget "And Russia is bad btw" you can't even post without starting an argument.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;47082409] Jee, sometimes it's like if you forget "And Russia is bad btw" you can't even post without starting an argument.[/QUOTE] Average SH Ukraine debate 1. I think Ukraine is no good 2. And Russia is bad btw 3. But the US does it too 4. Go to 1 until banned

[QUOTE=Pilot1215;47081966]Heard Poroshenko is considering declaring Martial law, know anything about that?[/QUOTE] He probably won't. Haven't heard anything in a while about it [QUOTE=just-a-boy;47082248]What's your own situation though? Is there a great chance of getting drafted in the coming days?[/QUOTE] I'm not sure, but I might

I dont understand that people are shocked when citizens of a nation that are at war are drafted to fight. if the UK was attacked by invaders and were backed into a corner, the government would draft them to defend their country. Its part of your civic duty to protect your nation from invaders who threaten it.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;47083178]I dont understand that people are shocked when citizens of a nation that are at war are drafted to fight. if the UK was attacked by invaders and were backed into a corner, the government would draft them to defend their country. Its part of your civic duty to protect your nation from invaders who threaten it.[/QUOTE] Okay, that's understandable. But giving commanders the right to shoot their soldiers isn't right. A martial court is for that.

[QUOTE=Swineflu;47083238]Okay, that's understandable. But giving commanders the right to shoot their soldiers isn't right. A martial court is for that.[/QUOTE] i never said i was justifying capital punishment for disbanding, just that its not abnormal for a nation at war, especially on the defensive, to draft their people into war.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;47083442]i never said i was justifying capital punishment for disbanding, just that its not abnormal for a nation at war, especially on the defensive, to draft their people into war.[/QUOTE] Getting suddenly pulled out of your workplace by police and forced into the army is a bit different than just drafting.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;47083464]Getting suddenly pulled out of your workplace by police and forced into the army is a bit different than just drafting.[/QUOTE] how? the US sends you an notification that you have been picked and will be shipped out for training in a week and if you dont show up you will be thrown in jail for avoiding it. Its almost the same exact thing but faster due to dire circumstances with Ukraine at the moment.

-snip, doesn't really matter-

Well Russia is the entire reason why this is happening. They must be extremely desperate now, facing a Russia backed insurgency, I doubt there is any way this is going to end in a way which will benefit the people.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;47083178]I dont understand that people are shocked when citizens of a nation that are at war are drafted to fight. if the UK was attacked by invaders and were backed into a corner, the government would draft them to defend their country. Its part of your civic duty to protect your nation from invaders who threaten it.[/QUOTE] How would you feel if your Gov't Shat all over you, maybe even took shots at you and then made you fight for them?

I wish for the day when those scum are kicked out of east Ukraine and sent back to Russia

If you will not serve in combat than you shall serve on the firing line. Is this the Imperial Guard now?

[QUOTE=niiiiiiiiok;47084548]I wish for the day when those scum are kicked out of east Ukraine and sent back to Russia[/QUOTE] what are you really coming in here and shit talking a country that has nothing to do with the news article?

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;47082931]I'm not sure, but I might[/QUOTE] Are you reluctant to serve in the military? Why haven't you volunteered yet?

[QUOTE=Saigon;47085187]Are you reluctant to serve in the military? Why haven't you volunteered yet?[/QUOTE] Most people sort of don't want to die, if that's a news for you.

[QUOTE=gufu;47085197]Most people sort of don't want to die, if that's a news for you.[/QUOTE] Given that his country is effectively in the middle of a war and has been partially annexed by Russia...

[QUOTE=Saigon;47085187]Are you reluctant to serve in the military? Why haven't you volunteered yet?[/QUOTE] why should he?

[QUOTE=Saigon;47085203]Given that his country is effectively in the middle of a war and has been partially annexed by Russia...[/QUOTE] Drafting is simply not an efficient way to raise competent forces. You just end up with a lot of infantry, since teaching everything else takes too long of a time. This also completely neglects the person's capabilities that could be important (Engineers, Technicians, Pilots). And to be honest, rebels are mostly contained to an area, because Russia can only send in so much meat into the grinder before it gets even more obvious.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;47085210]why should he?[/QUOTE] To defend his people and their right to self-determination? I guarantee you that if America were invaded, you wouldn't even need conscription to get people to fight.

[QUOTE=Saigon;47085231]To defend his people and their right to self-determination? I guarantee you that if America were invaded, you wouldn't even need conscription to get people to fight.[/QUOTE] It's so nice to have an official appointed spokesperson for the American people in this thread.

[QUOTE=gudman;47085260]It's so nice to have an official appointed spokesperson for the American people in this thread.[/QUOTE] Do you disagree?

[QUOTE=Saigon;47085267]Do you disagree?[/QUOTE] I don't know, why would I. But I'm pretty sure you don't know either. That's pretty huge claim to make.

[QUOTE=Saigon;47085231] I guarantee you that if America were invaded, you wouldn't even need conscription to get people to fight.[/QUOTE] If one thing is for sure, without literal genocidal drive, trying to invade America would be equal to concept of invading Russia in winter. If one thing the strange obsession has brought to US, it's the fact that conscription for defense is made entirely redundant as an approach against invasive first strike.

[QUOTE=Saigon;47085231]To defend his people and their right to self-determination? I guarantee you that if America were invaded, you wouldn't even need conscription to get people to fight.[/QUOTE] It should be his choice whether or not he wants to give his life for his country. Just because signing up works for some doesn't mean it will work for everybody. If I were him I'd be concerned about my friends and family more than a government in Kiev. [editline]6th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Saigon;47085267]Do you disagree?[/QUOTE] Some would sign up, some wouldn't, just like Ukraine. It's not cowardice it's just a matter of ' what do you owe society'