Anders Breivik, Norway murderer, wins human rights case - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50169053]Uh yes it does, it prevents him from fucking blowing up Oslo again.[/QUOTE] So does putting him on death row though.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50169053]Uh yes it does, it prevents him from fucking blowing up Oslo again.[/QUOTE] i don't agree, but what he's saying is that so does the death penalty and that this is essentially the same thing

[QUOTE=Cold;50168068][/QUOTE] If this is true then I'm kind of glad he won. Sleep Deprivation Torture is some of the worst shit you can endure. He'll pay for what he did by never being a part of society again but no one should be subjected to that type of treatment.

[QUOTE=AntonioR;50168069]Keeping him locked up until he dies wont accomplish anything either, except making people feel better because they didn't kill him right away. It's a death punishment in a civilized disguise.[/QUOTE] So what should they do with him? Release him because he's going to die in prison most likely of old age? Makes (no) sense.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50169269]i don't agree, but what he's saying is that so does the death penalty and that this is essentially the same thing[/QUOTE] Only in the Sylvia Plath sense that we're all dying, but I think you'll agree that there's a pretty notable difference between some judge deciding you should die by lethal injection tomorrow morning and accepting that one day a heart attack or an aneurysm or any other old thing could randomly kill you. Not being able to prevent somebody from dying is not the same thing as sentencing them to death anywhere outside of moody poetry.

[QUOTE=Cold;50168099]He has a 21 year sentence, with a minimum of 10 years of actual incarceration. Besides i am sure more then enough people would not consider years spend in prison equivalent to years spend dead.[/QUOTE] for 77 people I almost feel like 21 years seems a bit low

[QUOTE=J!NX;50169559]for 77 people I almost feel like 21 years seems a bit low[/QUOTE] Don't worry, he'll get another 21 years when those years are up. He'll never get out of prison.

[QUOTE=EskillV2;50169586]Don't worry, he'll get another 21 years when those years are up. He'll never get out of prison.[/QUOTE] Yeah but who knows what kind of world we'll be in 21 years from now. Maybe prisons will be abolished all together

[QUOTE=Glitchman;50169621]Yeah but who knows what kind of world we'll be in 21 years from now. Maybe prisons will be abolished all together[/QUOTE] that doesn't even make sense what

[QUOTE=EskillV2;50169586]Don't worry, he'll get another 21 years when those years are up. He'll never get out of prison.[/QUOTE] I thought he gets 5 years added on his initial sentence of 21 years? And not 21 immediately again. If I remember reading it correctly. Also J!NX it may seem low, but it kind of makes more sense than slapping somebody a 300 year sentence, or in his case probably a millennium.

[QUOTE=Glitchman;50169621]Yeah but who knows what kind of world we'll be in 21 years from now. Maybe prisons will be abolished all together[/QUOTE] Not sure what you mean by this. But i'm pretty sure that criminals aren't just freed 21 years from now.

21 years actually seems like a lot of time, he is spending that time in isolation from society, it's not like he''s chilling out with friends and family every day, and then prisons are[sp]/should be[/sp] about resocialization, aren't they? Resocialization isn't "We'll put you in jail for the rest of your life, enjoy!", that would be the exact opposite.

[QUOTE=J!NX;50169635]that doesn't even make sense what[/QUOTE] Knowing Norway that's actually a realistic expectation

[QUOTE=Dr. Fishtastic;50167817]but did they get him a ps3??[/QUOTE] Maybe they gave him a computer, that would explain some of the comments on this site lately

[QUOTE=Jmir 54;50169945]Knowing Norway that's actually a realistic expectation[/QUOTE] I highly doubt Anders is getting released after his time is up. He will get another 21 years and that will repeat until he's 6 feet under.

I feel like people who want anders abused mistake something really fundamental about their own nature. They are assuming they are different, despite making the same error he did. Anders Breivik killed all those people because he felt they represented some massive injustice in the world, they and their existence had commited a massive crime worthy of a horrible death, in his eyes. He reasoned himself through anecdote, anger, and probably a few other people around him reinforcing his views. The key point being, he didn't respect them as other humans, just as political injustices. We, as a society, should respect inmates as human for precisely this reason, regardless of how horrid their crime, because there will always come a time where "the society" will be on the wrong side of justice, and at that time the last thing we want is to be executing innocent civilians for crimes they didn't commit. The death penalty is so barbaric because it's usually executing the same logic as the person being executed and i honestly think being present in a society will create more murderers because of it's acceptance. Also, Anders BreIvik is a great subject for rehabilitation programs. He, and the people rehabilitating him know that because of the severity of his crimes, he will never be released. That makes it a perfect scenerio to test and see the raw impact of rehabilitation programs absent of any potential motivation to "get out into the world just to do it all again". Any rehabilitation will just be to improve his mental state as a person, nothing more, because it's obvious he is a broken individual and if we have the ability to, we should try to fix it. Maybe Norway isn't at the stage yet where they can do it yet, but its someting every society should be striving towards.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;50170198]I feel like people who want anders abused mistake something really fundamental about their own nature. They are assuming they are different, despite making the same error he did. Anders Breivik killed all those people because he felt they represented some massive injustice in the world, they and their existence had commited a massive crime worthy of a horrible death, in his eyes. He reasoned himself through anecdote, anger, and probably a few other people around him reinforcing his views. The key point being, he didn't respect them as other humans, just as political injustices. We, as a society, should respect inmates as human for precisely this reason, regardless of how horrid their crime, because there will always come a time where "the society" will be on the wrong side of justice, and at that time the last thing we want is to be executing innocent civilians for crimes they didn't commit. The death penalty is so barbaric because it's usually executing the same logic as the person being executed and i honestly think being present in a society will create more murderers because of it's acceptance.[/QUOTE] Wanting justice against a man who killed 77 people =/= killing 77 people. Not that you are literally saying that its the same. Obviously you're just saying it's the mistake itself that counts. The death penalty for this guy I understand but don't necessarily agree with. Don't turn that into a "people wanting death for Anders are no better than him" thing. Though he IS the perfect subject for rehab. Since it's such an EXTREME case.

[QUOTE=J!NX;50170247]Wanting justice against a man who killed 77 people =/= killing 77 people. Not that you are literally saying that its the same. Obviously you're just saying it's the mistake itself that counts. The death penalty for this guy I understand but don't necessarily agree with. Don't turn that into a "people wanting death for Anders are no better than him" thing. Though he IS the perfect subject for rehab. Since it's such an EXTREME case.[/QUOTE] i wasn't trying to weigh what was worse, only that there's a common faulty thread of logic between anders and those calling for abusing/"wanting justice against" him. if i were to weigh them against eachother obviously someone making angry internet posts isn't anywhere near killing 77 people.

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50169243]So does putting him on death row though.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50169269]i don't agree, but what he's saying is that so does the death penalty and that this is essentially the same thing[/QUOTE] There's a large moral gap between "keep him away from others" and "kill him". It's not financially viable either as going through the miles red tape required for executions is actually more expensive than just keeping them housed and fed.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;50170198]I feel like people who want anders abused mistake something really fundamental about their own nature. They are assuming they are different, despite making the same error he did. Anders Breivik killed all those people because he felt they represented some massive injustice in the world, they and their existence had commited a massive crime worthy of a horrible death, in his eyes. He reasoned himself through anecdote, anger, and probably a few other people around him reinforcing his views. The key point being, he didn't respect them as other humans, just as political injustices. We, as a society, should respect inmates as human for precisely this reason, regardless of how horrid their crime, because there will always come a time where "the society" will be on the wrong side of justice, and at that time the last thing we want is to be executing innocent civilians for crimes they didn't commit. The death penalty is so barbaric because it's usually executing the same logic as the person being executed and i honestly think being present in a society will create more murderers because of it's acceptance. [/QUOTE] You presume we are inherently valuable on virtue of being human? I disagree. Barbaric or not I believe that as a species we should have the right to choose who lives and who dies. Individuals like this, who needlessly slaughter innocents have no place in this world. Its not pretty, but I sincerely believe that some people do in fact lose their right to be treated as a human being should and or their life.

[QUOTE=Cocacoladude;50172076]You presume we are inherently valuable on virtue of being human? I disagree. Barbaric or not I believe that as a species we should have the right to choose who lives and who dies. Individuals like this, who needlessly slaughter innocents have no place in this world. Its not pretty, but I sincerely believe that some people do in fact lose their right to be treated as a human being should and or their life.[/QUOTE] Uh yeah no. The choice of who should and should not be considered human is one that [B]no one[/B] should have the power to make -- it's considered a slippery slope for a reason, because we've had people throughout history who have decided the human worth of other people and it's NEVER gone well.

I think many of you are missing this part [quote]Judge Sekulic also noted that Breivik had been woken up every half hour at night over a long period of time[/quote] This is actual torture. Wake up a person +5 times every 30 minutes and he will not have any fucking idea how long time has passed. It will feel as days. [i]In the head of the interrogated prisoner, a haze begins to form. His spirit is wearied to death, his legs are unsteady, and he has one sole desire: to sleep... Anyone who has experienced this desire knows that not even hunger and thirst are comparable with it.[/i]

[QUOTE=Cocacoladude;50172076]You presume we are inherently valuable on virtue of being human? I disagree. Barbaric or not I believe that as a species we should have the right to choose who lives and who dies. Individuals like this, who needlessly slaughter innocents have no place in this world. Its not pretty, but I sincerely believe that some people do in fact lose their right to be treated as a human being should and or their life.[/QUOTE] I don't believe that living beings have inherent value, but I also don't believe in the idea that certain beings inherently don't deserve rights for whatever reason. And also: [QUOTE=Cocacoladude;50172076]Barbaric or not I believe that [u]as a species[/u] we should have the right to choose who lives and who dies.[/QUOTE] You do realize that not everyone's going to be sharing the exact same views on who deserves to die, right? With that in mind, who, out of all the fallible humans on this insignificant rock in the middle of space, is ultimately going to be in charge of who lives or dies?

[QUOTE=Cocacoladude;50172076]You presume we are inherently valuable on virtue of being human? I disagree. Barbaric or not I believe that as a species we should have the right to choose who lives and who dies. Individuals like this, who needlessly slaughter innocents have no place in this world. Its not pretty, but I sincerely believe that some people do in fact lose their right to be treated as a human being should and or their life.[/QUOTE] If we give the species the right to decide life and death, we're all fucking doomed before too long. I'd rather not give ourselves that power over ourselves for no reason.

[QUOTE=Jmir 54;50169945]Knowing Norway that's actually a realistic expectation[/QUOTE] And who would know Norway better than an American sitting behind his computer.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;50170198]I feel like people who want anders abused mistake something really fundamental about their own nature. They are assuming they are different, despite making the same error he did. Anders Breivik killed all those people because he felt they represented some massive injustice in the world, they and their existence had commited a massive crime worthy of a horrible death, in his eyes. He reasoned himself through anecdote, anger, and probably a few other people around him reinforcing his views. The key point being, he didn't respect them as other humans, just as political injustices. We, as a society, should respect inmates as human for precisely this reason, regardless of how horrid their crime, because there will always come a time where "the society" will be on the wrong side of justice, and at that time the last thing we want is to be executing innocent civilians for crimes they didn't commit. The death penalty is so barbaric because it's usually executing the same logic as the person being executed and i honestly think being present in a society will create more murderers because of it's acceptance. Also, Anders BreIvik is a great subject for rehabilitation programs. He, and the people rehabilitating him know that because of the severity of his crimes, he will never be released. That makes it a perfect scenerio to test and see the raw impact of rehabilitation programs absent of any potential motivation to "get out into the world just to do it all again". Any rehabilitation will just be to improve his mental state as a person, nothing more, because it's obvious he is a broken individual and if we have the ability to, we should try to fix it. Maybe Norway isn't at the stage yet where they can do it yet, but its someting every society should be striving towards.[/QUOTE] well by that logic shouldn't we just kill him to end their suffering? wouldn't you suffer more if you had no freedom and were locked up for the rest of your life rather than just dying right then and there? i would argue that freedom is worth more than my life

If you murder people will want revenge

How can you sleep at night after killing more then 60 teenagers?

[QUOTE=space1;50173124]well by that logic shouldn't we just kill him to end their suffering? wouldn't you suffer more if you had no freedom and were locked up for the rest of your life rather than just dying right then and there? i would argue that freedom is worth more than my life[/QUOTE] By that logic, we should all kill ourselves to end all human suffering.

[QUOTE=space1;50173124]well by that logic shouldn't we just kill him to end their suffering? wouldn't you suffer more if you had no freedom and were locked up for the rest of your life rather than just dying right then and there? i would argue that freedom is worth more than my life[/QUOTE] If we're going to keep that in mind when sentencing someone, then I feel like we should just leave it up to the sentenced guy to decide whether he wants to be locked up in a cell or get executed rather than make given death penalties mandatory.