Paypal instructs buyer to destroy "fake" violin instead of returning it, violin wasn't fake, seller - Polidicks

[QUOTE=abcpea2;34046232]why would you buy an OLD instrument[/QUOTE] There are many reasons, here are some. Not all old instruments are worth something. The first reason somebody would buy an antique instrument is the rarity. Dead luthiers stop making instruments, thus there are a very limited amount in circulation. Second is the prestige. Some luthiers, such as Stradivarius are renown for their instruments; Said instruments can sell for hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. Third is the sound. Older instruments crafted by skilled makers can sound beautiful. That's not to say newer instruments can't sound just as well. You don't have to buy an older instrument. There are new instruments that are just as good and even better.

[QUOTE=sweeneypaul;34046670]as much as I hate paypal I am £500 up because of them :quagmire:[/QUOTE] Paypal almost got me into a lawsuit.

Paypal ran over my dog.

It makes sense in this case that someone could worry about counterfeits of an original instrument but there is still no reason to destroy counterfeits. Possibly report them to the police in case of false advertising but certainly not wrecking them (they could be of use to students if they're not useful to the customers involved). The difficult thing is that luthiers also copy violin designs constantly, not to counterfeit existing violins but to recreate the sounds and looks of antique instruments. I own a German copy of a Guarneri del Gesu made around 100 years ago. It's clearly not a Guarneri (if it was it would be slightly smaller and would cost around $11 million) but it has the identification markings on the inside that are identical to the original and that say "Joseph Guarnerius fecit Cremonae 17??". It's not meant to be a counterfeit of an original Guarneri, merely a copy that pays homage to the design of the original instrument.

[QUOTE=booster;34048071]What if you buy a diamond and don't live near anything that can destroy it :v:?[/QUOTE] True diamonds shatter easily if smashed with something hard, like a simple hammer, they are not indestructible. A pure diamond is very high in hardness, but brittle and that's why they are so difficult to cut, yet not to shatter.

Diamond is really fragile and easy to smash indeed. Iron on the other hand is quite hard to smash with a blunt object.

[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;34049250]Diamond is really fragile and easy to smash indeed. Iron on the other hand is quite hard to smash with a blunt object.[/QUOTE] Not fragile. Brittle.

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;34045188][URL="http://www.gussetviolins.com/appraise.htm"]"Photo appraisals are the least expensive, however, photo appraisals are also the least accurate, but can help determine if an instrument or bow merits closer examination."[/URL] [URL="http://www.collectibleviolins.com/appraise.html"]"If you have a violin with the potential of being worth $2500 to $3000 or more, it is best to take it to a qualified luthiery to have it properly appraised."[/URL] I think you can stop talking now.[/QUOTE] And that's why I said [i]generally[/i] and [i]90% of the time[/i]. I'm saying why it's not unreasonable to say the buyer was mislead and he isn't to blame. It's Paypal's fault for trying to identify it with any level of confidence. It isn't the buyer's fault for being mislead. [QUOTE=Zeke129;34045357]But he studied at the Paypal Academy of Instrument Identification[/QUOTE] I have an aquaintance who is a luthier and that's where I learned this shit.

This exact scenario has happened to me before. Genuine softwares are some of many things that I sell online, and one time a buyer falsely claimed that the software is counterfeit when it clearly isn't. Regarlessly, Paypal told them to do the same as to destroy the copy of software without even considering any proofs of authenticity. I lost about $500 and the item just like that, and Paypal doesn't even respond to my letters. It really makes you want to think twice on whether if you really want to use Paypal to sell, as this is only one of several major headaches you will encounter.

Was the buyer Pete Townsend by any chance?

Can't wait until the seller sues Paypal/the idiot buyer

[QUOTE=Zeke129;34044906]I think the buyer deserves some blame for assuming Paypal could expertly evaluate the authenticity of an item remotely[/QUOTE] Billion dollar company...random guy on the internet

[QUOTE=Nystical;34057082]Can't wait until the seller sues Paypal/the idiot buyer[/QUOTE] Paypal said he could only get his money back if he destroyed the item. I don't really see why you would sue the buyer because clearly it's all paypal's fault. Yeah the buyer destroyed an antique, but it was under the assumption that it was fake and paypal knew what they were talking about when they told him to destroy it. [editline]4th January 2012[/editline] Paypal even requested the pictures, so I don't see why he's a prick for taking them.

[QUOTE=Nystical;34057082]Can't wait until the seller sues Paypal/the idiot buyer[/QUOTE] It's almost a guarantee that Paypal will win. You can't sue the buyer either because he has the right to doubt authenticity

[QUOTE=abcpea2;34046232]why would you buy an OLD instrument[/QUOTE] Touche

[QUOTE=Valdor;34057235]Paypal said he could only get his money back if he destroyed the item. I don't really see why you would sue the buyer because clearly it's all paypal's fault. Yeah the buyer destroyed an antique, but it was under the assumption that it was fake and paypal knew what they were talking about when they told him to destroy it. [editline]4th January 2012[/editline] Paypal even requested the pictures, so I don't see why he's a prick for taking them.[/QUOTE] Why would the buyer be sued anyway? He bought it, it was his property to do whatever with unless he didn't actually buy it then his title of buyer is all a lie

[QUOTE=Ragy;34049105]True diamonds shatter easily if smashed with something hard, like a simple hammer, they are not indestructible. A pure diamond is very high in hardness, but brittle and that's why they are so difficult to cut, yet not to shatter.[/QUOTE] wait so you're telling me this squishy diamond I have isn't a real diamond they told me the fact I can flatten it right out without breaking meant it was real

Why would you destroy such a beautiful instrument? Why would you even SUGGEST destroying the item? I just don't understand people sometimes...