[QUOTE=scout1;41564449]Citation needed.[/QUOTE]
A lot of the camp guards were conscripts from German occupied countries. It was basically do it or we kill you or your family. Hell they even used Jews to control the bunk groups
Don't we have much more important things to do than hunt down some old men who are going to die soon?
People need to realize that not all Nazis where jewhating pro genocide murderers. Judging someone by a label is just as stupid as racism.
The nazis were human. All people regardless of skincolor or looks share 95% of their DNA. We should all commit collective suicide. - nazi666 logic
[QUOTE=Kyle902;41564501]A lot of the camp guards were conscripts from German occupied countries. It was basically do it or we kill you or your family. Hell they even used Jews to control the bunk groups[/QUOTE]
This is not a citation.
[QUOTE=kaven;41564476][url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1555835/Germany-to-pardon-last-troops-Hitler-executed.html[/url]
30.000 German troops were executed by the nazi regime for various reasons, among them were not following orders.[/QUOTE]
This is, but again, not a single instance of execution for failing to commit executions/murders. That's a blanket article about all german soldiers deemed traitors by nazi germany.
[QUOTE=scout1;41564663]This is not a citation.
This is, but again, not a single instance of execution for failing to commit executions/murders. That's a blanket article about all german soldiers deemed traitors by nazi germany.[/QUOTE]
snip missed the part were this was dismissed as inaccurate, sorry
Edit: This one is though [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Schimek[/url]
[QUOTE=kaven;41564679][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Schulz[/url][/QUOTE]
Did you read what you just linked?
[quote] Based on a Bundesarchiv study, the incident was dismissed as a legend by scholars in the 1990s.[/quote]
And wikipedia's citation saying nope:
Steinbach, Peter; Tuchel, Johannes (2004). Widerstand gegen die nationalsozialistische Diktatur 1933-1945 (in German). Lukas. p. 327. ISBN 3-936872-37-6.
Manoschek, Walter (1995). "Serbien ist judenfrei". Militärische Besatzungspolitik und Judenvernichtung in Serbien 1941/42 (2 ed.). Oldenbourg Wissenschaftsverlag. p. 189. ISBN 3-486-56137-5. Referring to Lichtenstein, Heiner (1990). Himmlers grüne Helfer (in German). Bund-Verlag. p. 157. ISBN 3-7663-2100-5.
[QUOTE=scout1;41564698]Did you read what you just linked?
And wikipedia's citation saying nope:
Steinbach, Peter; Tuchel, Johannes (2004). Widerstand gegen die nationalsozialistische Diktatur 1933-1945 (in German). Lukas. p. 327. ISBN 3-936872-37-6.
Manoschek, Walter (1995). "Serbien ist judenfrei". Militärische Besatzungspolitik und Judenvernichtung in Serbien 1941/42 (2 ed.). Oldenbourg Wissenschaftsverlag. p. 189. ISBN 3-486-56137-5. Referring to Lichtenstein, Heiner (1990). Himmlers grüne Helfer (in German). Bund-Verlag. p. 157. ISBN 3-7663-2100-5.[/QUOTE]
Again sorry missed that part but now I linked one that was correct.
[QUOTE=kaven;41564716]Again sorry missed that part but now I linked one that was correct.[/QUOTE]
A claim only supported by his sister, and denied by officers in his regiment supported by journalists.
[url]http://www.tezeusz.pl/cms/tz/index.php?id=2089[/url]
[QUOTE=scout1;41564737]A claim only supported by his sister, and denied by officers in his regiment supported by journalists.
[url]http://www.tezeusz.pl/cms/tz/index.php?id=2089[/url][/QUOTE]
Again the source you mentioned says a polish member of the resistance said that an austrian member of the wehrmacht was executed for refusing to join a firing squad, even if this is not Otto Schimek it does prove that someone was executed for those reasons.
[QUOTE=geel9;41562938]I think it's important that we bring the former nazis to trial. If the justice system is going to work, [b]it has to be consistent.[/b] We cannot pick and choose who to apply justice to simply based on what we want. It has to be universal. The president should be liable for his actions just as much as a 90-year-old ex-Nazi.
[b]That is not to say that they need to go to prison.[/b] In this case the "appropriate" sentence would not involve prison at all.[/QUOTE]
I agree, justice always has to be consistent. When it comes to war crimes though it's full of holes, too many people get away with crimes. I'd say there's many members of the US military today who got away with all sorts of actions classed as war crimes, along with British, French, Russian, etc. They are protected and in most cases despite overwhelming evidence they are untouchable. I can cite numerous examples of crimes that went unpunished by any court for all these countries.
[QUOTE=kaven;41564793]Again the source you mentioned says a polish member of the resistance said that an austrian member of the wehrmacht was executed for refusing to join a firing squad, even if this is not Otto Schimek it does prove that someone was executed for those reasons.[/QUOTE]
Not a verifiable claim, and the article kind of rips that idea to shreds.
[quote]According to Franciszek Tobiasz, a miller from the Machowa region and a former member of the AK (Home Army--the pillar of the resistance movement in Poland during World War II), a young Viennese Catholic was executed for sheltering two partisans and for refusing to join the tiring squad that executed them when they were discovered. As the circumstances unequivocally suggest, this person could only be Schimek.
The validity of that report is questioned by two well-known Austrian journalists, Ransmayr and Pollack, who have managed to get in touch with officers from Schimek's regiment. According to their informants, Schimek was executed for plain desertion, nothing out of the ordinary in the last months of 1944. The officers also maintain that it is impossible that Schimek was forced to take part in any executions, since the executions were only carried out by the Gestapo and SS, and not by the Wehrmacht. [/quote]
[QUOTE=scout1;41564838]Not a verifiable claim, and the article kind of rips that idea to shreds.[/QUOTE]
That only invalidates the report if that person was infact Schimek, besides the officers in his regiment have reasons to lie. How bad would it seem if they admitted to killing one of his own for not killing?
[QUOTE=kaven;41564857]That only invalidates the report if that person was infact Schimek, besides the officers in his regiment have reasons to lie. How bad would it seem if they admitted to killing one of his own for not killing?[/QUOTE]
Sound enough but it's still not a verifiable claim.
[QUOTE=scout1;41564875]Sound enough but it's still not a verifiable claim.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough.
[QUOTE=Nazi666;41560532]No. My girlfriend is from Poland and her family was subjected to some fucking harsh treatment by the germans when they invaded. You can't just say "leave them alone.". There is justice needing to be done for the rapes they commited and more. But of course you will say "just leave them alone.".
[b][i]there going to jail regardless.[/i][/b][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Nazi666;21318822]Thats your opinion not mine, As a american citizen. I can say what i want and display it my beliefs. Communist can and they killed 50 - 100 million of there own. So american nazi's can too. Have a problem with it? Bring it up with that communist black president.
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Nazi" - TH89))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/Ae5Kh9a.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;41564931][img]http://i.imgur.com/Ae5Kh9a.png[/img][/QUOTE]
Ho ho holy shit, how come nobody saw this?
[editline]23rd July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=geel9;41562938]I think it's important that we bring the former nazis to trial. If the justice system is going to work, [b]it has to be consistent.[/b] We cannot pick and choose who to apply justice to simply based on what we want. It has to be universal. The president should be liable for his actions just as much as a 90-year-old ex-Nazi.
[b]That is not to say that they need to go to prison.[/b] In this case the "appropriate" sentence would not involve prison at all.[/QUOTE]
What would you do after the trial? What would their sentence be if not a jail sentence? Take away their retirement fund? Even then, punishing them seems so redundant, the point of the criminal justice system is to prevent more crime and protect people - who are you protecting by prosecuting these old people? Are they going to create a new Hitler?
You're just advocating we just waste all our resources, millions in dollars and hundreds of people and witnesses to relive those horrible experiences in front of the court, just to punish some old useless rag of a man who can barely brush his own teeth.
This isn't even justice, it's still just revenge regardless if your sentence is jail or not.
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;41567534]Ho ho holy shit, how come nobody saw this?
[editline]23rd July 2013[/editline]
What would you do after the trial? What would their sentence be if not a jail sentence? Take away their retirement fund? Even then, punishing them seems so redundant, the point of the criminal justice system is to prevent more crime and protect people - who are you protecting by prosecuting these old people? Are they going to create a new Hitler?
You're just advocating we just waste all our resources, millions in dollars and hundreds of people and witnesses to relive those horrible experiences in front of the court, just to punish some old useless rag of a man who can barely brush his own teeth.
This isn't even justice, it's still just revenge regardless if your sentence is jail or not.[/QUOTE]
I don't really care about your appeal to emotion, dude. Everyone that is accused of a crime needs their time in court.
go after the nazi's who perpitrated the holocaust, not the party members or secret police of the former communist governments that made dissenters dissappear and did this for 60 years
honestly though most of the higher up german guys they are looking for were in their mid 30s to early 40s to begin with, they all are either dead or almost there by now, any trials would be a waste of time because the suspects would have passed away before even going to trial. but the nazi hunters won't give up until every single member of the SS has been accounted for and documented, even if they are dead.
25k?
hardly worth the price of hunting down an old guy who had SS/Nazi training, the old bugger probably still remembers the forums of hiding
Wow... This is second thread already where you can see how fascistic facepunch is. "It happened years ago" Are you guys fucking retarded? They killed people. And they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it just by hiding for many years.
[QUOTE=Recco;41568899]Wow... This is second thread already where you can see how fascistic facepunch is.[/QUOTE]
So now Facepunch isn't a den of ultra-liberal social justice warrior Political correctness police, but we're fascist? Jesus, was there a meeting or something, I must have missed it.
[QUOTE=Recco;41568899]Wow... This is second thread already where you can see how fascistic facepunch is. "It happened years ago" Are you guys fucking retarded? They killed people. And they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it just by hiding for many years.[/QUOTE]
literally no one said this, everyone said "Give them a TRIAL instead"
oh my god its like you're fucking deaf dumb and blind
[QUOTE=J!NX;41569181]literally no one said this, everyone said "Give them a TRIAL instead"
oh my god its like you're fucking deaf dumb and blind[/QUOTE]
No kind of a lot of people said we shouldn't even bother looking into them
[QUOTE=scout1;41569305]No kind of a lot of people said we shouldn't even bother looking into them[/QUOTE]
to be fair, when someones 80-90 years old, you can't exactly do much to punish them. They don't live long enough to learn anything from it and can't even harm anyone at that point nearly as much.
[QUOTE=J!NX;41569316]to be fair, when someones 80-90 years old, you can't exactly do much to punish them. They don't live long enough to learn anything from it and can't even harm anyone at that point nearly as much.[/QUOTE]
In other words, it's a waste of time and resources.
[QUOTE=Recco;41568899]Wow... This is second thread already where you can see how fascistic facepunch is. "It happened years ago" Are you guys fucking retarded? They killed people. And they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it just by hiding for many years.[/QUOTE]
Ugh, no one said that.
Any trial held on their cases would still be more symbolic than anything else though. These people don't have anything you can take away from them as a punishment. Mostly because they're fucking ancient and putting them in prison would be kind of unnecessary.
Same goes for any other form of punishment. I can, kinda, see the point, but at the same time I don't.
All the searching and hunting down only to say "you're bad people" and then pretty much nothing of it.
[QUOTE=gudman;41569355]Ugh, no one said that.
Any trial held on their cases would still be more symbolic than anything else though. These people don't have anything you can take away from them as a punishment. Mostly because they're fucking ancient and putting them in prison would be kind of unnecessary.
Same goes for any other form of punishment. I can, kinda, see the point, but at the same time I don't.
All the searching and hunting down only to say "you're bad people" and then pretty much nothing of it.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Apache249;41569349]In other words, it's a waste of time and resources.[/QUOTE]
pretty much this
there is more important shit to do than this.
[QUOTE=scout1;41569305]No kind of a lot of people said we shouldn't even bother looking into them[/QUOTE]
Yes, and I will continue to say that. There's literally no point other than revenge.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;41560545]That just brings you down to their level. What, are you going to stick them in a gas chamber too?
Grow the fuck up, it was 70 years ago. This shouldn't even be legal.
We can't say "leave them alone" but your name is Nazi666. Okay.[/QUOTE]
I don't think they said they were going to gas them. They just want them to be brought to justice.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;41560545]That just brings you down to their level. What, are you going to stick them in a gas chamber too?
Grow the fuck up, it was 70 years ago. This shouldn't even be legal.
We can't say "leave them alone" but your name is Nazi666. Okay.[/QUOTE]
What the shit? Who cares if it's been 70 years you fool, they still killed millions of people.
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