[QUOTE=Aetna;41570715]What the shit? Who cares if it's been 70 years you fool, they still killed millions of people.[/QUOTE]
Yes, because every Nazi killed millions of people.
[QUOTE=J!NX;41569663]pretty much this
there is more important shit to do than this.[/QUOTE]
Who gives a fuck? You're not the one doing the work. They're not directing government officials or federal agents to search. People are doing it of their own accord, and that's their choice. It's their time and it's an understandable, if not far fetched, goal. If you personally were affected by the holocaust to the point you feel that those accountable should still be punished if they haven't already, that's their right and you're a twat if you think they shouldn't be allowed to waste their time doing so.
[QUOTE=Aetna;41570715]What the shit? Who cares if it's been 70 years you fool, they still killed millions of people.[/QUOTE]
thats not the point
[QUOTE=Aetna;41570787]Who gives a fuck? You're not the one doing the work. They're not directing government officials or federal agents to search. People are doing it of their own accord, and that's their choice. It's their time and it's an understandable, if not far fetched, goal. If you personally were affected by the holocaust to the point you feel that those accountable should still be punished if they haven't already, that's their right and you're a twat if you think they shouldn't be allowed to waste their time doing so.[/QUOTE]
Give them a trial I said, but when they're pretty much going to die, deliberately trying to find those specific ones starts to lose its point.
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;41570770]Yes, because every Nazi killed millions of people.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say every nazi, can you read? The original article said "perpetrators of", implying those in charge/responsible. Fucking semantics.
[editline]23rd July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=J!NX;41570791]thats not the point
Give them a trial I said, but when they're pretty much going to die, deliberately trying to find those specific ones starts to lose its point.[/QUOTE]
Which is why you're not involved in it. I'm not disagreeing with you, all I'm saying is that these people have a right, and a reason, to be doing what they're doing, and I say more power to them.
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;41570770]Yes, because every Nazi killed millions of people.[/QUOTE]
Did you read the article? Like, the first sentence?
The nazi got judged. The biggest majority of them were tried and heavily condemned. Usually sentenced to death even.
Some people managed to avoid all this shit and got to live another life somewhere. Now they are old and probably too senile to remember most of it. They will probably die in a couple years at absolute best.
Is it really worth the time, effort and money to track the few people (very likely to be less than a dozen) that were involved in this, but are still alive, considering time will get rid of them faster than the legal system ?
[QUOTE=scout1;41564663]This is not a citation.
[/QUOTE]
You're right it isn't a citation. It's required knowledge if you are going to debate about this.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41570983]The nazi got judged. The biggest majority of them were tried and heavily condemned. Usually sentenced to death even.
Some people managed to avoid all this shit and got to live another life somewhere. Now they are old and probably too senile to remember most of it. They will probably die in a couple years at absolute best.
Is it really worth the time, effort and money to track the few people (very likely to be less than a dozen) that were involved in this, but are still alive, considering time will get rid of them faster than the legal system ?[/QUOTE]
Really, you know for sure they are all senile, regretful, and bound to die earlier than a trial can be conducted?
[editline]23rd July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;41571068]You're right it isn't a citation. It's required knowledge if you are going to debate about this.[/QUOTE]
It's required knowledge that you can't provide a single shred of verifiable evidence for? Do explain.
[QUOTE=scout1;41571072] It's required knowledge that you can't provide a single shred of verifiable evidence for? Do explain.[/QUOTE] Are you seriously questioning whether the German's used conscripts to guard the camps? Or are you questioning that they used Jews to control bunk groups? If you are then you have no right to debate about this.
[QUOTE=Nazi666;41560574]My name has nothing to do with it. I made this account when I was thirteen. They don't deserve to be free for the crimes they commited. You pray that I don't EVER see a SS soldier/wehrmacht soldier who commited a warcrime or I'll take justice in to my own hands.[/QUOTE]
You wont do a thing, and if you do, you can prepare yourself to go to jail for assaulting old men.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;41571186]Are you seriously questioning whether the German's used conscripts to guard the camps? Or are you questioning that they used Jews to control bunk groups? If you are then you have no right to debate about this.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1292298&p=41564425&viewfull=1#post41564425]You claimed people accused of war crimes were forced.[/url]
[url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1292298&p=41564449&viewfull=1#post41564449]I asked you to prove it, you deflected with an anecdote.[/url]
You have still not given me a citation for your accusations
[QUOTE=scout1;41571276][url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1292298&p=41564425&viewfull=1#post41564425]You claimed people accused of war crimes were forced.[/url]
[url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1292298&p=41564449&viewfull=1#post41564449]I asked you to prove it, you deflected with an anecdote.[/url]
You have still not given me a citation for your accusations[/QUOTE]
You don't understand how dumb your views are. If you told any historian that wasn't a blatant holocaust denier then you would be laughed at.
I'm not going to go through my text books and find you a direct quote. I'll just give you a huffpost article about a "Nazi" camp guard being deported to Germany.
[editline]23rd July 2013[/editline]
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/anton-geiser-nazi_n_2251944.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;41571326]You don't understand how dumb your views are. If you told any historian that wasn't a blatant holocaust denier then you would be laughed at.
I'm not going to go through my text books and find you a direct quote. I'll just give you a huffpost article about a "Nazi" camp guard being deported to Germany.
[editline]23rd July 2013[/editline]
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/anton-geiser-nazi_n_2251944.html[/url][/QUOTE]
See? That wasn't hard.
By the way, people are still legally culpable for murder even if coerced into doing so. There are a few exceptions, and it does depend on which state you were to be tried in, but in most cases it will only lessen the guilt, not erase it. In international standards? I have no idea, but according to the trials after WW2 you are obliged to resist blatantly illegal and criminal (i.e. death camp stuff) orders and demands. That is not to say passivity is criminalized, but indirect responsibility is also treated as criminality.
I've already told you guys about Uncle Helmüt, The Wehrmacht veteran, I called him up to ask what he thinks.
"Leave them be. They are old men like me, they have done things they will never forget. The crimes they have committed will forever be seared into their memories. Isn't the hatred of the world, the memory of children's screams, the words that will haunt them enough. They will punish themselves."
This topic is pretty much an amalgamation of everything that's wrong with western culture's idea of "justice"
Justice has a purpose. When people forget that purpose and just want justice for justice's sake, we end up with scenarios like this topic.
[QUOTE=scout1;41571072]Really, you know for sure they are all senile, regretful, and bound to die earlier than a trial can be conducted?[/QUOTE]
Okay so first of all, I never talked about them being regretful.
Second, I said PROBABLY senile. When you turn 90 and above, you tend to become really senile. You're wasting your time chasing after dying people.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41571514]Okay so first of all, I never talked about them being regretful.
Second, I said PROBABLY senile. When you turn 90 and above, you tend to become really senile. You're wasting your time chasing after dying people.[/QUOTE]
No, apparently we're PROBABLY wasting our time. And frankly I think the moral imperative trumps the cost of a private foundation operating on donations finding them.
[QUOTE=scout1;41571526] And frankly.[/QUOTE]
I certainly hope this wasn't intentional.
I dont think its right to hunt them down and exectute them, that doesnt make us any better. But I feel some action has to be taken if we do find some SS officer still alive.
Just because you are old doesnt justify what you have done, you might've killed, who knows how many, women, children, men, of all ages.
[QUOTE=scout1;41571526]No, apparently we're PROBABLY wasting our time. And frankly I think the moral imperative trumps the cost of a private foundation operating on donations finding them.[/QUOTE]
are you saying that a 90 year old war vet is going to go crazy and start killing people? It's a waste of time to prosecute people who are not a threat to society.
[QUOTE=Nazi666;41560532]No. My girlfriend is from Poland and her family was subjected to some fucking harsh treatment by the germans when they invaded. You can't just say "leave them alone.". There is justice needing to be done for the rapes they commited and more. But of course you will say "just leave them alone.".
[b][i]there going to jail regardless.[/i][/b][/QUOTE]
let's jail all the old men who did their country's duty because they did something that you or your girlfriend weren't even born yet to resent them for
[QUOTE=Nazi666;41560829]Maybe you should join the nazis in Prison? You clearly support them. Hey! While your at it. I hear theres a sale on Nazi Party uniforms. Maybe you can purchase some to use for your next neo-nazi rally.
That 20 dollars that I was going to spend for my username is going to your title now.
FinalHunter aka "Pro-Nazi"
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Calm down" - Megafan))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
To be fair German WW2 Uniforms were badass.
If trying surviving german soldiers from ww2 is consistent, we should also try every soldier from all sides of the war. The legal system doesnt work by "Try everyone that may have done something", as most soldiers from ww2 did not commit war crimes, they did their job as soldiers. You can't assume they all participated in the crimes, so unless there is a reason to believe that person was involved directly, you cant just try them for it.
[QUOTE=fantafuzz;41575345]If trying surviving german soldiers from ww2 is consistent, we should also try every soldier from all sides of the war. The legal system doesnt work by "Try everyone that may have done something", as most soldiers from ww2 did not commit war crimes, they did their job as soldiers. You can't assume they all participated in the crimes, so unless there is a reason to believe that person was involved directly, you cant just try them for it.[/QUOTE]
It's about Nazi's that commited war crimes, not regular Wehrmacht soldiers who fought for their country.
[QUOTE=scout1;41562144]Oh I don't know, some tens of million dead is something of a touchy spot. No I just feel absolutely nothing [b]when I see the murder of many dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions of people.[/b]
[/QUOTE]
wow i didn't knew you knew everyone who died in the holocaust, i suddenly feel a wave of sensationalist sympathy for you.
also suddenly i'm angry about the genocide of the Midianites in the Old Testament we should try to avenge them after this!
[QUOTE=scout1;41571526]No, apparently we're PROBABLY wasting our time. And frankly I think the moral imperative trumps the cost of a private foundation operating on donations finding them.[/QUOTE]
The moral imperative was a valid motive 70 years ago where the almost entirety of the German soldiers and members of the Nazi party involved in the holocaust were judged and sentenced. You are chasing after ghosts, or people who are soon to be ones.
After the war, Both French and German governments decided to forget old grudges and restart anew, working together to help both countries turn the page. Great things came from this and none of it would have happened if France just decided to flip a bird at Germany for not having killed a literal 100% of all people involved in the holocaust.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;41574846]aIt's a waste of time to prosecute people who are not a threat to society.[/QUOTE]
Precisely. They claim they want justice when in reality they seek revenge.
[QUOTE=stupid10er;41586364]wow i didn't knew you knew everyone who died in the holocaust, i suddenly feel a wave of sensationalist sympathy for you.
also suddenly i'm angry about the genocide of the Midianites in the Old Testament we should try to avenge them after this![/QUOTE]
I didn't know I needed to know the victim of a crime to want to prosecute their transgressor
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41586570]The moral imperative was a valid motive 70 years ago where the almost entirety of the German soldiers and members of the Nazi party involved in the holocaust were judged and sentenced. You are chasing after ghosts, or people who are soon to be ones.
After the war, Both French and German governments decided to forget old grudges and restart anew, working together to help both countries turn the page. Great things came from this and none of it would have happened if France just decided to flip a bird at Germany for not having killed a literal 100% of all people involved in the holocaust.[/QUOTE]
Yes, the new German government which decried nazism, was forced not to allow nazis into it, and which was built upon the principles of the german resistance.
Also the "almost entirety"? [url=http://history.howstuffworks.com/history-vs-myth/nazi-at-large.htm]Are you aware[/url] [url=http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/12/18148965-never-too-late-nazi-hunters-tirelessly-pursue-50-elderly-auschwitz-war-criminals?lite]how many war criminals escaped?[/url]
[QUOTE=scout1;41586708]Yes, the new German government which decried nazism, was forced not to allow nazis into it, and which was built upon the principles of the german resistance.[/QUOTE]
France did not go into a full-blown political war of grudge against Germany after that. Some very old veterans argued that Germany deserved no respect because of WW1 and the nazi and they were promptly told to fuck right off.
If veterans who have been alive to see WW2 are told to stop being such whiny shits, then what makes you think you, a 20-something years old dude who wasn't even alive to experience any of it and lives in the comfort of society after the aftermath, have any meaningful word in this ?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41586862]France did not go into a full-blown political war of grudge against Germany after that. Some very old veterans argued that Germany deserved no respect because of WW1 and the nazi and they were promptly told to fuck right off.
If veterans who have been alive to see WW2 are told to stop being such whiny shits, then what makes you think you, a 20-something years old dude who wasn't even alive to experience any of it and lives in the comfort of society after the aftermath, have any meaningful word in this ?[/QUOTE]
So are you a 90 year old french veteran?
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