Nazi hunters offer cash in last push for justice - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Emperorconor;41560571]So if I kill somebody and then go into hiding for 70 years, I can get off scot free?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure your jail sentence would be shorter then 70 years so it would be easier just to turn yourself in. Spending your entire life in hiding, always watching your back, erasing your former identity would be worse then two decades in prison.

[QUOTE=scout1;41587007]So are you a 90 year old french veteran?[/QUOTE] basically your entire argument is asking people common sense questions and asking for sources that any high school student would know from simply reading Anne Franks diary (As required in the US). The only thing I'm getting from arguing with you is that you never paid any sort of attention during history class and perhaps browsed Anne Franks Diary in English.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;41591576]basically your entire argument is asking people common sense questions and asking for sources that any high school student would know from simply reading Anne Franks diary (As required in the US). The only thing I'm getting from arguing with you is that you never paid any sort of attention during history class and perhaps browsed Anne Franks Diary in English.[/QUOTE] I never even touched Ann Frank's diary and I feel like I know more about WW2 and its aftermath than this dude. Then again in France we get a really extensive history lesson entirely dedicated to the end of the war, considering half of the country was on the wrong side all throughout.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41591605]I never even touched Ann Frank's diary and I feel like I know more about WW2 and its aftermath than this dude. Then again in France we get a really extensive history lesson entirely dedicated to the end of the war, considering half of the country was on the wrong side all throughout.[/QUOTE] I wonder what he would say about the French violently shaming Nazi sympathizers after the war.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;41591576]basically your entire argument is asking people common sense questions and asking for sources that any high school student would know from simply reading Anne Franks diary (As required in the US). The only thing I'm getting from arguing with you is that you never paid any sort of attention during history class and perhaps browsed Anne Franks Diary in English.[/QUOTE] Are you that offended that I ask you to provide proof for a piece of history? Asking you to provide a source isn't just about personal verification, it's also about making sure YOU know what you're talking about.

[QUOTE=scout1;41591644]Are you that offended that I ask you to provide proof for a piece of history? Asking you to provide a source isn't just about personal verification, it's also about making sure YOU know what you're talking about.[/QUOTE] No I'm arguing that you know literally nothing about WWII at the high school level. Also you debate like a 12 year old.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;41591662]No I'm arguing that you know literally nothing about WWII at the high school level. Also you debate like a 12 year old.[/QUOTE] Does debating like an adult involve making accusations about the intelligence and education of your peers?

[QUOTE=scout1;41591683]Does debating like an adult involve making accusations about the intelligence and education of your peers?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=scout1;41587007]So are you a 90 year old french veteran?[/QUOTE] Fallacious arguments does not make your argument "adult" or "mature"

Pretty sure any Nazi who is still alive knows they are god damned monsters for what they did, and probably regrets it to this day. Maybe there have been a few out there who have kept their old ideals, but I doubt that most of them have. Even so, those ones get to see a world today that mostly coexists, with the ones they wanted to put down gaining more and more rights all the time. I don't see the point in punishing bitter old men, time has done more of that than we ever could.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;41591697]Fallacious arguments does not make your argument "adult" or "mature"[/QUOTE] But calling me stupid does make yours both adult [I]and[/I] mature? A fallacious argument can be discarded, destroyed, and otherwise brushed aside. It's a very simple matter, so you really shouldn't have any problem with it if it's such a fallacious argument. [editline]25th July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=evilweazel;41591707]Pretty sure any Nazi who is still alive knows they are god damned monsters for what they did, and probably regrets it to this day. Maybe there have been a few out there who have kept their old ideals, but I doubt that most of them have. Even so, those ones get to see a world today that mostly coexists, with the ones they wanted to put down gaining more and more rights all the time. I don't see the point in punishing bitter old men, time has done more of that than we ever could.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ilwON4pRPw[/media]

[QUOTE=scout1;41591727]But calling me stupid does make yours both adult [I]and[/I] mature? [/QUOTE] Exactly where did I call you an idiot? I also did brush aside your fallacious argument so I don't see the point to that. The way you used the video implies that all Nazi's kept their ideals after the war. AKA a massive generalization. Are you suggesting we persecute former Nazi's and only former Nazi's rather then the multitude of American, British, French, and Russian war criminals?

fuck nazis

[QUOTE=Nazi666;41560746]Not really. Say. How do you feel about this? [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eOdRtsupYRQ/URomMWTkhiI/AAAAAAAABpI/EFLfN2P_5UI/s1600/rape-german-soldiers-france-russia-ww2-006.jpg[/img] German soldiers raping a Ukrainian girl (the actual rape is censored for your protection.) [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-N4TGD5QV0J8/UDXag1DNRmI/AAAAAAAAAjs/VQuMG64sBIs/s640/polish-women-kidnapped-by-germans-work-in-brothels-ww2.jpg[/img] German soldiers forcing polish women to work in Brothels. A story of what happened in Poland by a Red Cross man. Another story. [url]http://uncensoredhistory.blogspot.com/2012/08/rape-by-german-and-waffen-ss-soldiers.html[/url] And you dare support these monsters? You're sick.[/QUOTE] While all of those things are nasty, similar things are "relatively" common in all occupied nations. The main difference is how much of it is sanctioned and how much is actually ordered. A lot of these things are normal warcrimes, but not exceptional or or even crimes against humanity.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;41591772]Exactly where did I call you an idiot? I also did brush aside your fallacious argument so I don't see the point to that. [/QUOTE] [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1292298&p=41591662&viewfull=1#post41591662[/url] [QUOTE=Kyle902;41591772] The way you used the video implies that all Nazi's kept their ideals after the war. AKA a massive generalization. Are you suggesting we persecute former Nazi's and only former Nazi's rather then the multitude of American, British, French, and Russian war criminals?[/QUOTE] Nope, I haven't said shit about nazis after the year. If you've read the thread's article and my posts I'm only interested in going after those where substantial evidence exists for war crimes. And I'm suggesting we prosecute members of [B]all nations[/B] which engage in war crimes.

[QUOTE=wraithcat;41591793]While all of those things are nasty, similar things are "relatively" common in all occupied nations. The main difference is how much of it is sanctioned and how much is actually ordered. A lot of these things are normal warcrimes, but not exceptional or or even crimes against humanity.[/QUOTE] A lot of the events depicted in those photo's never happened as well. The Soviets loved smear campaigns.

I don't know how I feel about this. They've done terrible things and haven't been punished for it, but it's been so long and most of them probably don't have much years left. Atleast this is better than just searching for them and killing them without a trial.

[QUOTE=scout1;41591801][url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1292298&p=41591662&viewfull=1#post41591662[/url] Nope, I haven't said shit about nazis after the year. If you've read the thread's article and my posts I'm only interested in going after those where substantial evidence exists for war crimes. And I'm suggesting we prosecute members of [B]all nations[/B] which engage in war crimes.[/QUOTE] Pardon me for calling you out on fallacious debating and a blatant lack of knowledge on the subject being debated. Well your argument is not exactly the most clear way to portray that opinion then.

[QUOTE=Nazi666;41560574]My name has nothing to do with it. I made this account when I was thirteen. They don't deserve to be free for the crimes they commited. You pray that I don't EVER see a SS soldier/wehrmacht soldier who commited a warcrime or I'll take justice in to my own hands.[/QUOTE] That's not justice, that vengeance. They are not the same.

[QUOTE=scout1;41586708]I didn't know I needed to know the victim of a crime to want to prosecute their transgressor [/QUOTE] well you did say that "you saw the murder of" millions of people so maybe you should start being consistent with your words

[QUOTE=stupid10er;41593390]well you did say that "you saw the murder of" millions of people so maybe you should start being consistent with your words[/QUOTE] There's this fantastic thing called video...

Scout1 your argument is going nowhere because you are now down to calling people names and coming to stupid conclusions on their beliefs because you refuse to hear their point. It only confirms everyone's thoughts that you are just really angry at something you weren't even alive to see and that you seek revenge for some damned reason, more than justice.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41593666]Scout1 your argument is going nowhere because you are now down to calling people names and coming to stupid conclusions on their beliefs because you refuse to hear their point. It only confirms everyone's thoughts that you are just really angry at something you weren't even alive to see and that you seek revenge for some damned reason, more than justice.[/QUOTE] Nowhere in this thread have I resorted to name calling, nor have I denied anybody the chance to disagree with me. And you seem to claim that I seek revenge when all I want is a trial. Tell me how that works.

[QUOTE=scout1;41593552]There's this fantastic thing called video...[/QUOTE] I have seen videos of the holocaust, seen videos of nazis using bulldozers to push bodies in giant holes and set them on fire and panick over the war they are losing, there is even an entire documentary called Night and Fog made a mere 10 years after the war, that features a survivor of the holocaust explaining how people came out of the cattle trains and were separated into different groups (gays, jews, gypsies, enemies of the state) with various nicknames including Night and Fog. I have also seen a ton of footage from the post-war trials, where all of the concentration camp guards were judged and sentenced. People were more neutral and sensible a year after the war than you, 70 years after it. There is a reason French people like the Franco-German reconciliation so much and don't like to talk about the "popular justice" events that happened right after the liberation, during which women who were known to have love relationships with german soldiers or nazi officers had their head shaved on the public place and were usually beaten up badly.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41593742]I have seen videos of the holocaust, seen videos of nazis using bulldozers to push bodies in giant holes and set them on fire and panick over the war they are losing, there is even an entire documentary called Night and Fog made a mere 10 years after the war, that features a survivor of the holocaust explaining how people came out of the cattle trains and were separated into different groups (gays, jews, gypsies, enemies of the state) with various nicknames including Night and Fog. I have also seen a ton of footage from the post-war trials, where all of the concentration camp guards were judged and sentenced. People were more neutral and sensible a year after the war than you, 70 years after it. There is a reason French people like the Franco-German reconciliation so much and don't like to talk about the "popular justice" events that happened right after the liberation, during which women who were known to have love relationships with german soldiers or nazi officers had their head shaved on the public place and were usually beaten up badly.[/QUOTE] I'd like to know how I'm being nothing but neutral when I am advocating for a fair trial and not instant executions for anyone from nazi germany circa 1945 Still waiting to hear where I called people names, completely blocked people, and sought revenge rather than justice.

[QUOTE=scout1;41593681]Nowhere in this thread have I resorted to name calling , nor have I denied anybody the chance to disagree with me.[/quote] You have been really passive aggressive and it comes down the same. [QUOTE=scout1;41593681]And you seem to claim that I seek revenge when all I want is a trial. Tell me how that works.[/QUOTE] You seek trial to condemn people that are about to die, effectively wasting time and resources to fullfill a false sense of justice because people have done bad things 70 years ago and have had to live the rest of their lives hidden with another identity to avoid getting in deep shit. Going after them for trials was a sensible, acceptable thing 30 years go when they weren't so old they would just die on the way to the trial.

Why do people still want to bring them to "justice"? The only people who deserved it are Hitler and high ranking officers etc. who planned the whole thing. The rest where just normal people given orders and believed what they where doing was right for their country, much like the American soldiers in Afghanistan today for example.

[QUOTE=scout1;41593762]I'd like to know how I'm being nothing but neutral when I am advocating for a fair trial and not instant executions for anyone from nazi germany circa 1945[/QUOTE] You're not neutral because your motivations comes down to your jimmies being rustled over people several generations before you dying in a war. And what do you want a trial for exactly ? Even if the tried individual comes out as guilty, what could happen afterward ? Sentence him to prison and have him die within a week ? Let him out despite his crimes because of his age and have everyone involved sound foolish for having dragged this old guy in a trial for jack shit ? Nazi hunting is now a waste of time and money, as well as an idiotic hunt for the past. [editline]25th July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=xxxanax;41593799]Why do people still want to bring them to "justice"? The only people who deserved it are Hitler and high ranking officers etc. who planned the whole thing. The rest where just normal people given orders and believed what they where doing was right for their country, much like the American soldiers in Afghanistan today for example.[/QUOTE] Most of the guards who were asked to patrol in concentration camps answered to the question of why they did with a mere "these were the orders".

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41593766]You have been really passive aggressive and it comes down the same. [/QUOTE] That's a huge step back from name calling. Are you going to claim I'm some sort of historical revisionist because I disagreed with some guys over sourcing on alleged executions of german soldiers for failing to carry out massacre orders? [QUOTE=Ganerumo;41593766]You seek trial to condemn people that are about to die, effectively wasting time and resources to fullfill a false sense of justice because people have done bad things 70 years ago and have had to live the rest of their lives hidden with another identity to avoid getting in deep shit. Going after them for trials was a sensible, acceptable thing 30 years go when they weren't so old they would just die on the way to the trial.[/QUOTE] You can prove that every single nazi that will be arranged for trial is going to die before any sort of justice can be carried out, regardless of the verdict of the court may it find them guilty or innocent, and that they are all senile, regretful, and truly scarred by having to hide? Cause when you can do that, you can supersede the law. Until then, we are going by the international standard, not picking and choosing who we prosecute for war crimes. Today we say 90 is too old. Tomorrow it is 89, and the day after 88...

[QUOTE=scout1;41593820]You can prove that every single nazi that will be arranged for trial is going to die before any sort of justice can be carried out, regardless of the verdict of the court may it find them guilty or innocent, and that they are all senile, regretful, and truly scarred by having to hide?[/quote] As long as you can provide evidence that tells otherwise I advise you not to use this kind of stupid logic.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41593803]You're not neutral because your motivations comes down to your jimmies being rustled over people several generations before you dying in a war.[/QUOTE] Yes. My "jimmies got rustled". That is clearly the only reason I support the notion of a trial for war criminals. Not the fact that is a truly heinous crime that is internationally policed. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;41593803]And what do you want a trial for exactly ? Even if the tried individual comes out as guilty, what could happen afterward ? Sentence him to prison and have him die within a week ? Let him out despite his crimes because of his age and have everyone involved sound foolish for having dragged this old guy in a trial for jack shit ?[/QUOTE] Again, you cannot say that every single living war criminal out there will die within a week. Until you can, stop bringing up this fallacious defense. If they're too old, they are too old and they'll be pardoned. If not, and found guilty, they'll be sentenced appropriately. Of course you don't want to take any bloody chance that a war criminal might actually have to serve a sentence. You want a blanket amnesty. That's unacceptable [QUOTE=Ganerumo;41593803] Most of the guards who were asked to patrol in concentration camps answered to the question of why they did with a mere "these were the orders".[/QUOTE] And according to the post-war trials, that is not a valid legal defense. [editline]25th July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;41593832]As long as you can provide evidence that tells otherwise I advise you not to use this kind of stupid logic.[/QUOTE] I'll be happy to let the prosecution provide it at trial, not to let you head off all trials before they can even begin. Yes, I want to actually examine the evidence. A novel idea, isn't it?