IDF troops killed unarmed non-violent Gazan at border protest
39 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Deathbane;21617280]Fuck palestine.[/QUOTE]
Fuck da Popo
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[QUOTE=starpluck;21624695]Yes, it was a protest near a combat zone. Was it at the combat zone? Nope. Also, investigation doesn't mean shit, the worst they could do IF they took action is "discipline soldiers". Also, are you justifying the death?
A few protesters threw rocks from a distance at ARMORED officers, and you honestly believe that they deserved to die?
That's like saying the Americans who threw snowballs and [highlight] rocks [/highlight] from a few feet at the British soldiers whose armor is no where near as powerful as today at Boston massacre deserved to die.[/QUOTE]
Combat zones have well defined borders obviously, no-one would dare try anything NEAR from a combat zone. Also by your logic, no millitary investigation is worthwhile. Because it's not going to satisfy everyone, there is no point to any military investigation. BTW, intentional killing of civilians can result in jail time.
Rocks vs guns? Rocks only do like 3 damage, guns do 50, that's so unfair. If you were dressed in kevlar armour you wouldn't care about having rocks at you, not like it's going to actually hurt be seen as a hostile action.
It wasn't a fight, saying it was an actual conflict is vastly over simplyfying it. Israeli soldiers were attacked and needed to break apart a protest that wasn't very peaceful any more. They fired off a few shots, I'm not sure how they did it and neither do you, the end result though was that one man ended up with a shot to the abdomen who later died in hospital. They probably didn't deserve to die so don't pull that shit, very few people who die in war or conflicts deserves to die. Soldiers =/= Riot Police so they aren't equiped to deal with that kind of problem.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;21625087]Combat zones have well defined borders obviously, no-one would dare try anything NEAR from a combat zone. Also by your logic, no millitary investigation is worthwhile. Because it's not going to satisfy everyone, there is no point to any military investigation. BTW, intentional killing of civilians can result in jail time.[/QUOTE]
No, just the IDFs form of investigation, we all know this. Yes, we know intentional killing of civilians can result in jail time; however this is indisputably untrue for Israel. From all past cases, the worst punishments soldiers received were being disciplined. As for the United States Army, the torturers at Abu Ghraib only killed one person yet suffered years in jail. This type of punishment for soldiers is common, not in Israel.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;21625087]Rocks vs guns? Rocks only do like 3 damage, guns do 50, that's so unfair. If you were dressed in kevlar armour you wouldn't care about having rocks at you, not like it's going to actually hurt be seen as a hostile action.[/QUOTE] What?. Reformulate your sentences I can’t even understand what you’re trying to say.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;21625087]It wasn't a fight, saying it was an actual conflict is vastly over simplyfying it. Israeli soldiers were attacked and needed to break apart a protest that wasn't very peaceful any more. They fired off a few shots, I'm not sure how they did it and neither do you, the end result though was that one man ended up with a shot to the abdomen who later died in hospital.[/QUOTE] Please don’t be stupid. We all know how they did it. We all know it was them who killed the protester. The Israeli Article said he was shot by Israeli soldiers. Saying we aren’t sure how Israel did it is extremely irrelevant; they aimed the gun, shot him. [quote]They probably didn't deserve to die so don't pull that shit, very few people who die in war or conflicts deserves to die. Soldiers =/= Riot Police so they aren't equiped to deal with that kind of problem.[/quote] It is a consistent issue with Israel that has still never been resolved. Like I said shooting protestors is not a new thing. And yes, ‘I pulled that shit’ since you were justifying his death. The IDF are properly equipped to deal with these type of protesters, they happen frequently, and they all share the same end result, dead or wounded protesters.
[editline]11:02AM[/editline]
If innocent protestors dying wasen't common, it'd be a different story.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21625206]No, just the IDFs form of investigation, we all know this. Yes, we know intentional killing of civilians can result in jail time; however this is indisputably untrue for Israel. From all past cases, the worst punishments soldiers received were being disciplined. As for the United States Army, the torturers at Abu Ghraib only killed one person yet suffered years in jail. This type of punishment for soldiers is common, not in Israel.[/QUOTE]
"disciplined" is the term for military punishment, it could mean anything from staying the weekend at the base or life in prison. The IDF however doesn't reveal a lot of things like this, and to you it shouldn't matter. He will be brought to justice and that is everything we'll probably know, and there's nothing you can do about it.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21625206]Please don’t be stupid. We all know how they did it. We all know it was them who killed the protester. The Israeli Article said he was shot by Israeli soldiers. Saying we aren’t sure how Israel did it is extremely irrelevant; they aimed the gun, shot him. It is a consistent issue with Israel that has still never been resolved. Like I said shooting protestors is not a new thing. And yes, ‘I pulled that shit’ since you were justifying his death. The IDF are properly equipped to deal with these type of protesters, they happen frequently, and they all share the same end result, dead or wounded protesters.[/QUOTE]
What he meant was that we all don't know exactly what happened, we weren't there, you can't tell if it was an accident or if they killed him intentionally. The only thing written in the article as to where they aimed the gun is "at the far side of the fence", doesn't sound like they tried to kill him to me.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21624695]
A few protesters threw rocks from a distance at ARMORED officers, and you honestly believe that they deserved to die?
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Hey dumbass, let me throw a rock at your face and tell me how you feel afterwards.
Better yet, go buy a riot helmet, and let me peg a big fucking rock at your head while you are wearing it. Tell me if the energy still transfers.
The guards probably thought the rocks were grenades or something
[QUOTE=PunchedInFac;21624672]Look at it this way.
Soldier in armor gets hit by rock, minor brusing.
Guy gets hit by bullets, he DIES.
The most that they could and should ever do is bring out some riot gear.[/QUOTE]
you'd be pissed if someone was throwing rocks at you aswell
[QUOTE=PopLot;21625474]The guards probably thought the rocks were grenades or something[/QUOTE]
yeah and instead of taking cover, he was thinking "fuck if I'm going down, I'll take you with me!"
[QUOTE=PopLot;21625474]The guards probably thought the rocks were grenades or something[/QUOTE]
It's got nothing to do with that. Anyone who's been at a real protest/riot knows that escalating behavior spreads like wildfire. People usually aren't in a rational state of mind at that point. All it takes is one or two idiots becoming violent, and then soon you have a whole mob taking violent action.
I'm not making excuses for anyone, but I don't think it's as clear cut as some idiots want it to be.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21625206]No, just the IDFs form of investigation, we all know this. Yes, we know intentional killing of civilians can result in jail time; however this is indisputably untrue for Israel. From all past cases, the worst punishments soldiers received were being disciplined. As for the United States Army, the torturers at Abu Ghraib only killed one person yet suffered years in jail. This type of punishment for soldiers is common, not in Israel.
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Abu Ghraib was about torture, not murder. As for discipline, it depends on the situation even in other militarys. If they shot and killed a civilian without intentionaly, that's bad. It's not so bad if they were being aggresive, warning shots were fired, the intention was to injure or not hit and if they did not fire when they didn't need to. It's not as black as white as "he killed someone, he must die".
[quote]What?. Reformulate your sentences I can’t even understand what you’re trying to say.[/quote]
It's a joke pointing out how stupid it is to think throwing rocks at people is ok if they are wearing kevlar vests.
[quote]Please don’t be stupid. We all know how they did it. We all know it was them who killed the protester. The Israeli Article said he was shot by Israeli soldiers. Saying we aren’t sure how Israel did it is extremely irrelevant; they aimed the gun, shot him. It is a consistent issue with Israel that has still never been resolved. Like I said shooting protestors is not a new thing.
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As I said before, it depends on the situation. You seem to be under the impression that they found some peaceful protesters, opened with automatic fire and then drank the blood of dead children. It's possible that it was a stupid descision on the part of the soldier, not a bloodthirsty outburst of Zionist rage.
[quote]And yes, ‘I pulled that shit’ since you were justifying his death. [/quote]
I'm not justifying his death, it's a tragedy that it happened but you are turing him into a martyr for the cause. Why is it that this one mans death is such a symbol of the horrors of Israel while the hundred dead on both sides from indescriminate bombing are just casualties?
[quote]The IDF are properly equipped to deal with these type of protesters, they happen frequently, and they all share the same end result, dead or wounded protesters.[/quote]
Not every Soldier carries rubber bullets and a riot shield with them. Just because it's a frequent occurance doesn't mean they are any better equipped, just because there are numerous IEDs around Afghanistan doesn't mean every soldier has bomb defusal. They also said that it was a weekly protest, come to think of it there's a lot of protests going on, remember that Na'vi related protest? Since people like you make such a big fuss about it and we don't hear about these deaths all the time, I don't think it's as common as you say.
Here's something for you to pick apart and critisize. My view on it is that an Israeli soldier fucked up; instead of calling for backup or firing more warning shots or numerous other ways to better handle the situation, he shot at them and gravely wounded one. He made a mistake that caused a man to lose his life, he needs to be punished.
Then you come along, you turn him into a figure of pure evil from some kind of cartoon. An Ordinary soldier is demonised because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and didn't do everything right. I know that the man who died was innocent and didn't deserve it, but it's not right to blame the soldier. He did whatever anyone in his position would do.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;21625456]Hey dumbass, let me throw a rock at your face and tell me how you feel afterwards.
Better yet, go buy a riot helmet, and let me peg a big fucking rock at your head while you are wearing it. Tell me if the energy still transfers.[/QUOTE]
Correct. Common logic says that momentum doesn't fucking cancel out as soon as it hits armor. Armor simply absorbs most of the damage, but not the force. There have been cases where soldiers/ police officers have died from having broken ribcages or somesuch due to being hit while wearing armor.
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