Australian High Court recognises third category of sex - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;44430381]But how would you differ it in other languages, like Russian, for instance, when sex and gender are the same word as the word "floor" - "пол" (that's actually irrelevant, what's relevant is that gender and sex are translated to a single word)[/QUOTE] Actually, "гендер" (gender) is a term, but it's rarely used by anyone because of lack of education in those fields. You know there is no hope left when, for example, even the minister of culture thinks that Russian people have 47 chromosomes.

[QUOTE=Berkin;44429462]I don't understand why so many people have a problem with this. Why exactly is it wrong for people who are transsexual, intersex, etc. to be allowed to indicate a more specific or appropriate sex on their legal documents? Is this suddenly an issue of conformity? I think it's fine if some people disagree that there are other sexual identities besides male and female, and there are appropriate ways to discuss and debate this. However, expressing that everyone should be forced to identify as one of two distinctive sexes is just wrong. There are too many variables to make an argument for that. Being hateful doesn't reinforce your views. It just makes you look like a big-headed twit.[/QUOTE] Because they be chopping off their dicks bro, thats gross. That's pretty much their argument.

I don't personally understand it, but I understand the opposition even less. I see no reason to not become more accepting as a society.

So thats what people mean when they say that facepunch is "transphobic". Huh, I never expected that it would be that evident.

[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;44430381]But how would you differ it in other languages, like Russian, for instance, when sex and gender are the same word as the word "floor" - "пол" (that's actually irrelevant, what's relevant is that gender and sex are translated to a single word)[/QUOTE] That's what I wonder. Would transgenderism exist to the same degree in a genderless language? I always thought gender was just a result of some guys 10,000 years ago getting together arbitrarily assigning things as man-like or woman-like.

can someone explain this to me? Like if you're not a male or a female, then what gender are you and what does it mean to be male or female?

[QUOTE=The Baconator;44431195]can someone explain this to me? Like if you're not a male or a female, then what gender are you and what does it mean to be male or female?[/QUOTE] It's not quite 'male or female'; most people are now using male and female as descriptors for physically-defined sex rather than mentally-experienced gender. This person in the article has had sex reassignment surgery from being biologically male, which is considered by the law to make them female. However, they wish to be considered neither biologically male nor physically female, but instead an 'in-between', so to speak. This is sometimes known as intersex (a general term for all people who aren't in the sex binary), but I don't know the exact term to be precise. I hope that's clarified it a little bit? It's quite complicated, and I'm not really qualified to explain fully.

[QUOTE=ADT;44429056]More like you were complaining that I didn't spend the previous six hours of my life into replying you guys.[/QUOTE] Yet here you are trying to justify your stupid post instead of doing something productive!

[QUOTE=be;44430485]Not quite when it comes to sex, it pretty much is black and white but there is a TINY sliver of grey, the amount of people who are born of indeterminate sex is minuscule.[/QUOTE] You're missing the point with that first part. It wasn't intended to say that they're common, just to show that the perception of it being a black and white situation is in fact wrong. And even if it is a tiny sliver, does that mean we should try to cram those people into the wrong categories instead?

[QUOTE=Alice3173;44431570]You're missing the point with that first part. It wasn't intended to say that they're common, just to show that the perception of it being a black and white situation is in fact wrong. And even if it is a tiny sliver, does that mean we should try to cram those people into the wrong categories instead?[/QUOTE] I think it means we should see them as being nothing more than genetic peculiarities, rather than some sort of damning proof that the fabric of society's perception on sex/gender should be unraveled.

Holy fuck this thread is attracting so many fucktards that make 0 sense and have the worst arguments against progress imaginable. My head hurts.

[QUOTE=Alice3173;44429051][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex]Sex isn't actually black and white at all[/url].[/QUOTE] Then it should be male, female and intersex. And half of you idiots don't distinguish the difference between sex and gender

[QUOTE=Antdawg;44427662]'ze' is the correct term I believe makes sense, it's kinda halfway between 'he' and 'she'[/QUOTE] Why is this getting so many dumbs. It's actually a correct term?

[QUOTE=Antdawg;44433559]Why is this getting so many dumbs. It's actually a correct term?[/QUOTE] It's -a- correct term. Not -the- correct term. Every person prefers their own pronouns, and most of them are okay with just 'they,' 'their,' and 'them.'

[QUOTE=Antdawg;44433559]Why is this getting so many dumbs. It's actually a correct term?[/QUOTE] There isn't really a correct term. Ze/Xe is the most common, but it's still very individual what each person prefers. Some prefer they some prefer a host of other options. So it's an option but it's not really one you can blanket as "the one to use". Usually "they" is the most neutral option until they let you know what they would prefer

Fine by me. He could be [sp]transnig***[/sp] for all I care. [editline]2nd April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Rhenae;44433751]There isn't really a correct term. Ze/Xe is the most common, but it's still very individual what each person prefers. Some prefer they some prefer a host of other options. So it's an option but it's not really one you can blanket as "the one to use". Usually "they" is the most neutral option until they let you know what they would prefer[/QUOTE] How the fuck do you pronounce Ze/Xe? I just follow the IF person doesn't want to be he/she THEN use they/they're/their.

[QUOTE=draugur;44433977]Fine by me. He could be [sp]transnig***[/sp] for all I care. [editline]2nd April 2014[/editline] How the fuck do you pronounce Ze/Xe? I just follow the IF person doesn't want to be he/she THEN use they/they're/their.[/QUOTE] Like it looks, "Zee"

[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;44430381]But how would you differ it in other languages, like Russian, for instance, when sex and gender are the same word as the word "floor" - "пол" (that's actually irrelevant, what's relevant is that gender and sex are translated to a single word)[/QUOTE] In 2004, we didn't have words for the act of republishing a 140-character message someone else originally published over the Internet. Somehow, in only the last 10 years, we've come up with a solution everyone agrees on. Language is versatile and flexible. It will cope. Just as society needs to loosen up and just fucking accept that gay people are not second-class citizens (and this is the battle that's gradually being won), society needs to loosen up and accept that gender is not a binary, or even really a trinary, but a gradient. Mental androgyny is very much a thing. I think we just can't even recognize it when we see it because most of us are raised in an environment where there was, for most of our upbringing, one of two options: Boy, girl. End of list. I would expect that every one knows a guy who is unquestionably male (sexual preference is not in the picture) but turns into a giant cuddlebear softie in private when they have an adorable little kitten or puppy giving them affection and wanting affection in return. Or same big gruff man in private settings with his daughters or granddaughters when they're at the age where they tend to be daddy's girls. I have seen [B]obvious[/B] near-motherly tendencies out of these tough, no-bullshit all-man men when they're in a setting where their masculinity is safe and untouchable, and they can express softer, more delicate feelings to the ones they hold dearest in the world. And there's nothing wrong with this, and unless it's obsessively over the top or something, society accepts this. There's also the "mama bear" effect, of the near-superhuman strength and aggression that can come out of otherwise gentle and "typical" women in certain types of situations. The traditional gender stereotypes teach us to expect this out of men when the situation needs it, to leap into action and settle things with blunt trauma injuries, but when a woman takes drastic action to protect, we consider it so noteworthy that we've invented a word for it and normalized its use in western culture. Gender is not a polarized binary, it's a Venn Diagram with smooth blending of the overlaps. Society regiments our personal expressions a lot more than we may be comfortable admitting. It's right in front of us, but we can't handle the long stare in the mirror we'd have to have if we acknowledged it for what it really is. At least, that's my opinion, but I'm hardly an expert.

[QUOTE=WhyNott;44430604]So thats what people mean when they say that facepunch is "transphobic". Huh, I never expected that it would be that evident.[/QUOTE] wtf are you even talking about this thread has been overwhelmingly against anyone talking shit about trans people put the victim card back in the deck you're in the majority

[QUOTE=CriticalImpact;44427650]I am asking a perfectly honest question, with no intention of being stupid or attempting to offend. If I was using someone's name in a sentence and they were genderless what do I say? I guess I could say, "They are coming" or "They are here" but it feels a bit impersonal especially if they have just arrived and you refer to them in the third person.[/QUOTE] Generally they is the safest bet. Some people will tell you what they prefer, you could just avoid pronouns whenever possible if you have their name.

[QUOTE=Bazsil;44437031]wtf are you even talking about this thread has been overwhelmingly against anyone talking shit about trans people put the victim card back in the deck you're in the majority[/QUOTE] Look at the ratings on the OP. Be glad the chaos doesn't post. They don't because there are also plenty of us with actual arguments and evidence to smash their posts, as you said. When this happens, they often lose it and get themselves banned.

[QUOTE=swagify420;44427296]You're either male or female, you can't be born as nothing. This is stupid [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Gimmick" - Megafan))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Your ignorance over an entire field of research is disturbing to me.

[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;44432971]Holy fuck this thread is attracting so many fucktards that make 0 sense and have the worst arguments against progress imaginable. My head hurts.[/QUOTE] Hint: being a condescending smug asshole towards people who are in the wrong will not convince them.

[QUOTE=davidrb18;44437877]Hint: being a condescending smug asshole towards people who are in the wrong will not convince them.[/QUOTE] how about you quote some of the idiots saying shit like 'WOW WHY WOULD YOU CHOP YOUR COCK OFF' and tell them that being a rude fuckwit isn't going to get them a civil response? oh yes, because the onus is never on the ignorant or the bigoted. i've seen your posts in previous threads about trans* don't even try to act like you give a shit about people being convinced

i dunno, i don't really see the big deal about this. there's not really any reason to get upset about some person being recognized as another sex. if it bothers you that much then i think you have some other underlying problems you should sort out with yourself. getting yourself worked up over someone else's happiness is a sure sign of a heartless individual, if i do say so myself. but what do i know? all i do is just let people do what makes themselves happy. it really is that simple, and it makes everything go a lot easier and smoother if we don't have people getting worked up over shit that doesn't matter.

[QUOTE=Matthew0505;44438004]Hint: being reasonable with them is even less effective[/QUOTE] Pretty sure most people are more likely to listen to someone that's being reasonable than someone that's being a condescending ass-wipe. (ofc there would be people ITT that wouldn't change their view on it regardless of what you say or do)

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;44436238]Language is versatile and flexible. It will cope.[/QUOTE] Pronouns are the words which take the longest to change in a language though. For instance, pronouns are almost never loanwords, and some words floating around in the Indo-European tongue have remain rooted despite the events around them. Changing a language takes a lot of a lot of time, and it can't be forced. [editline]3rd April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Mingebox;44430728]That's what I wonder. Would transgenderism exist to the same degree in a genderless language? I always thought gender was just a result of some guys 10,000 years ago getting together arbitrarily assigning things as man-like or woman-like.[/QUOTE] Gender has biological correlates, and we are a sexually dimorphic species, plus transgenderism exists in genderless languages, so yes it would happen. Also gendered languages have nothing to do with a persons gender it just happens to be the same word. oh ye Sapir-Whorf hypothesis was falsified.

[QUOTE=Matthew0505;44438004]Hint: being reasonable with them is even less effective[/QUOTE] This is true but only for those who have no interest in learning better. [QUOTE=isnipeu;44438301]Pretty sure most people are more likely to listen to someone that's being reasonable than someone that's being a condescending ass-wipe. (ofc there would be people ITT that wouldn't change their view on it regardless of what you say or do)[/QUOTE] See my above response to Matthew0505. Being reasonable with someone who actually wants to learn more about the subject is the best course of action. But unfortunately those sorts are very rare in threads like this. The vast majority of people posting against threads like this are either trolls or idiots who don't care whether they're right or wrong.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44440547] Gender has biological correlates, and we are a sexually dimorphic species, plus transgenderism exists in genderless languages, so yes it would happen. Also gendered languages have nothing to do with a persons gender it just happens to be the same word. oh ye Sapir-Whorf hypothesis was falsified.[/QUOTE] Surely it's not all biological though? I mean you have people who could have been said to he literally born into the wrong body, but people who have a personality typical if thier sex, but identify as the opposite? Or a personality typical of the opposite, but still refer to themselves by their sex? Why do some feel the need to adopt the appearance of the opposite sex and some don't? And where do "other" genders fit into sexual dimorphism?

I'm happy for this person, I really am, but it's hard for me to understand how someone can identify as anything else but male or female. How do you even come to such a conclusion? Don't get me wrong, I'm not against any of this, just having a hard time grasping it all. I don't know anyone who's transgender and generally tend to avoid gender-related stuff from Tumblr like the plague, but still.