[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;30862291]good thing I wasn't implying we could fix it[/QUOTE]
So apparently you just want to whine a bunch.
[QUOTE=GunFox;30862358]So apparently you just want to whine a bunch.[/QUOTE]
actually i was replying to his post
[QUOTE=GunFox;30862358]So apparently you just want to whine a bunch.[/QUOTE]
how dare he discuss things on a forum
[QUOTE=GunFox;30862358]So apparently you just want to whine a bunch.[/QUOTE]
We should not penalize countries for horrible atrocities because we are unable to reverse them.
Didn't they re-edit that picture a few months later and take the "Mission accomplished" off? (At least on the government sites)
America is like that bad kid who gets into lots of fights, and doesn't know when to stop
[QUOTE=Farrelm;30880102]America is like that bad kid who gets into lots of fights, and doesn't know when to stop[/QUOTE]
Always has been, always will be.
[QUOTE=Farrelm;30880102]America is like that bad kid who gets into lots of fights, and doesn't know when to stop[/QUOTE]
who walks around with a limp all the time
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;30884648]Always has been, always will be.[/QUOTE]
Well I don't know if you can say [i]that[/i].
We delayed a [i]lot[/i] into getting into WWI and WWII. We assumed an isolationist attitude, and waited a few years, until we were actually attacked (Lusitania, Zimmermann Telegram, and for WW2, Pearl Harbor).
[QUOTE=usaokay;30845380]Most of the stuff society still use today were invented for war use.[/QUOTE]
'Most' is kind of an overstatement. But yes, that's true.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;30861864]nope[/QUOTE]
Afganistan harbored our enemies. How is that not justified?
225,000 people dead, but 40 million people liberated from the opressive dictatorial regime of Saddam Hussein. I'd say that was worth it.
[QUOTE=Sexy Eskimo;30860997]But Osama is dead, mission accomplished.[/QUOTE]
World's most expensive bounty?
[editline]4th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rautatie;30900090]225,000 people dead, but 40 million people liberated from the opressive dictatorial regime of Saddam Hussein. I'd say that was worth it.[/QUOTE]
You're in dangerous territory with that statement.
[QUOTE=Mr.T;30845353]The US should stop investing in their stupid military and invest in good stuff like Science and Health Care. The americans think "OH WE ARE THE WORLDS SUPERPOWER AND WE CAN DO ANYTHING LOLOLOL". It's just because they have a big military. They just want to be a superpower.
Paranoid Americans, still haven't got out of the habit of thinking the Russians are going to attack them.[/QUOTE]
i'm really FUCKING tired of this condescending tone.
not all americans are the same. holy fucking christ is it really that hard to grasp the concept that the words "americans" means more than one person
[editline]4th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;30892337]Well I don't know if you can say [i]that[/i].
We delayed a [i]lot[/i] into getting into WWI and WWII. We assumed an isolationist attitude, and waited a few years, until we were actually attacked (Lusitania, Zimmermann Telegram, and for WW2, Pearl Harbor).[/QUOTE]
WWI was going for about 3-4 years until we went in, and then it ended like a year later
[QUOTE=cat man;30862141]Afghanistan is a completely different story, the United States was attacked by Al-Qaeda, who were being harbored by the Taliban. They had the choice of handing over Osama Bin Laden, but they didn't. It wasn't a war of aggression on the part of the U.S. and so far nobody has given me a reason why military action wasn't justified in Afghanistan. My main message is that pulling the soldiers out of Afghanistan right this moment would leave it in chaos, and in the same position as when the Soviets left it 30 years ago, ready to repeat the same cycle.[/QUOTE]
Al-Qaeda was not being 'harboured' by the Taliban - Al-Qaeda was a barely tolerated militant group, which the Taliban didn't bother because they're not the best of friends. The Taliban offered to extradite Osama Bin Laden if the US presented evidence and an arrest warrant (and obviously some diplomatic capital leading to weapons aid, ala Syria, Egypt and so on), but the US refused and invaded anyway.
The ISAF is going to need to be in Afghanistan for a rather long time, considering Afghani democracy is as flimsy as a house of cards. Supporting the Northern Alliance was a good short-term strategic move, but it doesn't exactly give much credibility to the ISAF promoting western institutions, like human rights and democracy.
[editline]5th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;30892337]Well I don't know if you can say [i]that[/i].
We delayed a [i]lot[/i] into getting into WWI and WWII. We assumed an isolationist attitude, and waited a few years, until we were actually attacked (Lusitania, Zimmermann Telegram, and for WW2, Pearl Harbor).[/QUOTE]
But there is always the Philippine-American War, a huge amount of small military actions in South America to protest American interests, thousands of troops in China in the 30s, the occupation of Haiti, the occupation of Velacruz, the occupation of Nicaragua, the occupation of the Dominican Republic, the AEF in Siberia and Northern Russia, and so on. There are plenty more different actions, but those are the big ones.
[QUOTE=NotoriousSpy;30851716]Throwing money at programs doesn't solve our problems. Why do private schools, with less money, educate better?[/QUOTE]
Less students, better curriculum, and contrary to popular belief, they spend much more money. Of course there are a variety of other reasons, but they are not the answer. Public education is needed and more money for public education means that there are more materials for schools, teachers are paid more and there is more enthusiasm about teaching and learning.
[editline]5th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Contag;30909200]Al-Qaeda was not being 'harboured' by the Taliban - Al-Qaeda was a barely tolerated militant group, which the Taliban didn't bother because they're not the best of friends. The Taliban offered to extradite Osama Bin Laden if the US presented evidence and an arrest warrant (and obviously some diplomatic capital leading to weapons aid, ala Syria, Egypt and so on), but the US refused and invaded anyway.
The ISAF is going to need to be in Afghanistan for a rather long time, considering Afghani democracy is as flimsy as a house of cards. Supporting the Northern Alliance was a good short-term strategic move, but it doesn't exactly give much credibility to the ISAF promoting western institutions, like human rights and democracy.
[editline]5th July 2011[/editline]
But there is always the Philippine-American War, a huge amount of small military actions in South America to protest American interests, thousands of troops in China in the 30s, the occupation of Haiti, the occupation of Velacruz, the occupation of Nicaragua, the occupation of the Dominican Republic, the AEF in Siberia and Northern Russia, and so on. There are plenty more different actions, but those are the big ones.[/QUOTE]
Most of those were just extensions of the monroe doctrine, in other words, the big stick doctrine. Not justifiable, but Europe was very different from South America and the Pacific.
[editline]5th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;30862167]it wouldn't have happened if we didn't go into iraq[/QUOTE]
What if's don't belong in this discussion, they may be interesting, but they are irrelevant.
[quote] have left 225,000 dead and cost up to $US4.4 trillion ($4.12 trillion),[/quote]
Wow what an expensive war for not even many dead. More civilians died at the Siege of Leningrad (600,000)
[QUOTE=Mr.T;30845353]Paranoid Americans, still haven't got out of the habit of thinking the Russians are going to attack them.[/QUOTE]
Dude I know right? Just the other day my neighbor was walking down the street, ya'know, and I thought he was a Russian! So I stabbed him. Gotta look out for those damn ruskies everywhere. You never know when Ivan will strike.
[QUOTE=NotoriousSpy;30851716]Throwing money at programs doesn't solve our problems. Why do private schools, with less money, educate better?[/QUOTE]
It's not less money you dolt.
[QUOTE=Mr.T;30845353]The US should stop investing in their stupid military and invest in good stuff like Science and Health Care. The americans think "OH WE ARE THE WORLDS SUPERPOWER AND WE CAN DO ANYTHING LOLOLOL". It's just because they have a big military. They just want to be a superpower.
Paranoid Americans, still haven't got out of the habit of thinking the Russians are going to attack them.[/QUOTE]
Like how you generalize Americans, it's the governemnt officials and high-up people that decide this, the general public supports it because they assume it's right. Also, if we didn't intervene, what do you think Saddaum what would have done? Maybe take over a large part of the Middle East, and perhaps eventually control all of it. Would you want a tyrant poisoning his people and slaughtering them? Or trying to establish peace?
[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;30849906]Our government sucks and we can't do anything about it[/QUOTE]
Who elects your incredible government?
[QUOTE=The Epidemic;31284121]Who elects your incredible government?[/QUOTE]
The wealthy.
They in turn use their extensive wealth to leverage the poor and uneducated masses to vote the same as them. They are called the Republican party. We'd fix the problem, except the education budgets are getting continually slashed resulting in greater amounts of poverty and an even greater concentration of wealth, which in turn leads to more poor, uneducated, religious fuckwits.
It has reached a point where the Republicans are an openly evil entity. They blatantly fuck over our political processes in order to meet their own ends. They are currently sabotaging our debt ceiling talks so that they can get the health care law repealed.
We are quickly heading into a situation that I don't know how to fix with normal government processes. We need a non-republican president who is not only willing to call congress on its bullshit, but step way out of his boundaries in order to reign in the Republican party.
Ideally they would be brought up on charges of treason. Their political sabotage has done more damage to us than any terrorist attack could ever hope to achieve. They have committed crimes and millions upon millions of people now suffer every day as a result. Under other circumstances, I am entirely opposed to the death penalty, but politicians should be the sole exception. Corruption should be paid for with blood. Even low level corruption in the Federal government can bring about untold suffering.
[QUOTE=GunFox;31284521]The wealthy.
They in turn use their extensive wealth to leverage the poor and uneducated masses to vote the same as them. They are called the Republican party. We'd fix the problem, except the education budgets are getting continually slashed resulting in greater amounts of poverty and an even greater concentration of wealth, which in turn leads to more poor, uneducated, religious fuckwits.
It has reached a point where the Republicans are an openly evil entity. They blatantly fuck over our political processes in order to meet their own ends. They are currently sabotaging our debt ceiling talks so that they can get the health care law repealed.
We are quickly heading into a situation that I don't know how to fix with normal government processes. We need a non-republican president who is not only willing to call congress on its bullshit, but step way out of his boundaries in order to reign in the Republican party.
Ideally they would be brought up on charges of treason. Their political sabotage has done more damage to us than any terrorist attack could ever hope to achieve. They have committed crimes and millions upon millions of people now suffer every day as a result. Under other circumstances, I am entirely opposed to the death penalty, but politicians should be the sole exception. Corruption should be paid for with blood. Even low level corruption in the Federal government can bring about untold suffering.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if you made that rant just because you're drunk or something, or if you actually believe it. But I totally, completely agree with you.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;31284571]I don't know if you made that rant just because you're drunk or something, or if you actually believe it. But I totally, completely agree with you.[/QUOTE]
Nah, the debt ceiling talks have got me pissed off. Watching the Republicans blatantly and intentionally fuck over every American in the nation and act like they are doing nothing wrong makes my blood boil.
Though I believed it before. It is just slowly getting worse and I'm starting to realize the scope of how deep in this hole we really are. We are quickly approaching some sort of cataclysmic event. I don't now what will cause it nor do I know what the outcome will be, but we can't continue as we are.
[QUOTE=GunFox;31284599]Nah, the debt ceiling talks have got me pissed off. Watching the Republicans blatantly and intentionally fuck over every American in the nation and act like they are doing nothing wrong makes my blood boil.
Though I believed it before. It is just slowly getting worse and I'm starting to realize the scope of how deep in this hole we really are. We are quickly approaching some sort of cataclysmic event. I don't now what will cause it nor do I know what the outcome will be, but we can't continue as we are.[/QUOTE]
And that's were I disagree. As long as people have a sofa, a Bud Light and Jerry Springer on their flatscreen, they could give a shit who's exploiting them for their own wealth. Why vote for your own rights against the corporation when you can vote to keep them damn queers from marryin' each other?
That's assuming you can even get your bloated arse off the couch and to a polling place.
Oh, don't forget that driver's license.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;31284706]And that's were I disagree. As long as people have a sofa, a Bud Light and Jerry Springer on their flatscreen, they could give a shit who's exploiting them for their own wealth. Why vote for your own rights against the corporation when you can vote to keep them damn queers from marryin' each other?
That's assuming you can even get your bloated arse off the couch and to a polling place.
Oh, don't forget that driver's license.[/QUOTE]
My point is that we are approaching a point where that won't be possible for many people. Our economy is looks better temporarily, but we aren't going to bounce back. We don't have the economic backing nor confidence of the world necessary to do so. We don't really deserve to bounce back after all this bullshit, not without changing first anyways.
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