UK: Supplying a weapon 'just as bad as using one' - could mean life in prison
162 replies, posted
What if a legally purchased firearm from a gun shop was used to commit a crime? Would the owner of the gun shop get charged?
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;38126461]What if a legally purchased firearm from a gun shop was used to commit a crime? Would the owner of the gun shop get charged?[/QUOTE]
no gun shops in UK
[QUOTE=Terminutter;38125486]Incorrect.
Certain handguns are allowed with the correct firearms permit, though it is very limited, pretty much muzzleloading flintlocks and the like.[/QUOTE]
That's being pretty anal on the details... Wouldn't a flintlock pistol be legal to own because of its age anyway (unless it was made recently of course..).
[QUOTE=BAZ;38125456]Handguns are illegal for any purpose (apart from some special shooting events) in the UK.
Using defence is not a valid justification.[/QUOTE]
Wow that's a really shit law
Guess there is a reason for all the stabbings there lol
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38125918]Still odd that it's easier to get a suppressor in the UK than it is here in the USA :v:[/QUOTE]
Probably because the worst you could put it on would be a semi-automatic .22 rifle. Hardly the weapon of choice for an assassin or the like.
[QUOTE=Jsm;38126547]That's being pretty anal on the details... Wouldn't a flintlock pistol be legal to own because of its age anyway (unless it was made recently of course..).[/QUOTE]
I think it's anything older than 1917 is legal and there might be some other pistols allowed, but yeah it is pretty anal on my part.
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;38126551]Wow that's a really shit law
Guess there is a reason for all the stabbings there lol[/QUOTE]
Yes but we have one of the lowest firearm homicide rates in the world, coincidence?
[editline]21st October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Terminutter;38126568]I think it's anything older than 1917 is legal and there might be some other pistols allowed, but yeah it is pretty anal on my part.[/QUOTE]
You forgot human[B]e[/B] dispatch! I believe that reason allows people to own any handgun.
Not to be confused with human dispatch though, I don't think that is allowed somehow.
[QUOTE=Jsm;38126575]Yes but we have one of the lowest firearm homicide rates in the world, coincidence?[/QUOTE]
And one of the highest stabbings rates?
I'd rather everyone had a gun than just the criminals, haha
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;38126600]And one of the highest stabbings rates?
I'd rather everyone had a gun than just the criminals, haha[/QUOTE]
I'd love to see some proof of that, purely out of interest. Mostly because a few years ago 36 (in London, supposedly the stabbing capital of the UK) was considered "extremely" high for a year.
[QUOTE=Jsm;38126640]I'd love to see some proof of that, purely out of interest. Mostly because a few years ago 36 (in London, supposedly the stabbing capital of the UK) was considered "extremely" high for a year.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales[/url]
Violent crime rates have been going down the past few years, but they're still pretty damn high.
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;38126600]And one of the highest stabbings rates?
I'd rather everyone had a gun than just the criminals, haha[/QUOTE]
The two don't really balance out though we only have about a quarter of the US's homicide rate.
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;38126798]The two don't really balance out though we only have about a quarter of the US's homicide rate.[/QUOTE]
The US also has five times as many people
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;38126820]The US also has five times as many people[/QUOTE]
Yeah that's why I'm talking about homicide [b]rates[/b].
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;38126820]The US also has five times as many people[/QUOTE]
He said rate, not number, which means it'll be homicides per 10k people or something.
Why are people talking about human rights and the right to bare arms?
This isn't aimed at legitimate weapons shops this is for the people that trade firearms unlawfully and without licenses.
Also, I know the UK doesn't have a constitution but more a long standing tradition.
Off topic, but why do you guys not write them down :v:?
[QUOTE=Swilly;38126964]Also, I know the UK doesn't have a constitution but more a long standing tradition.
Off topic, but why do you guys not write them down :v:?[/QUOTE]
afaik, it actually is written down in the magna carta and a few other old documents, but it basically is summed up as God gives power to the monarch who gives it to parliament. :v:
There's likely someone who has a clue what they're talking about who can give a better explanation.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;38126988]afaik, it actually is written down in the magna carta and a few other old documents, but it basically is summed up as God gives power to the monarch who gives it to parliament. :v:
There's likely someone who has a clue what they're talking about who can give a better explanation.[/QUOTE]
That would be much appreciated. I know of the Magna Carta and other documents but I mean your current democratic traditions are apparently not written down, more implied.
-snip-
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;38126746][url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales[/url]
Violent crime rates have been going down the past few years, but they're still pretty damn high.[/QUOTE]
The USA has a higher murder [b]rate[/b] than the UK. Yes, the USA has more people but the proportion of murders against the population is such that the USA still comes out with a higher murder level.
And quite frankly, the argument of "if guns are banned then people will always use knives instead" s bollocks. Allow me to explain why:
Generally, I consider there to be three ways of killing someone: pre-meditated murder, unplanned murder and manslaughter.
Pre-meditated murder - this is the only one of the three where the argument holds any weight. If a person wants to kill someone else badly enough, they will do it [i]somehow[/i]. That said, killing someone with a knife is harder to physically carry out - the victim has a better chance of defending themself and due to the need to close with the victim can make it difficult to cover up the crime (as opposed to using a firearm to carry it out from a more concealed location).
Unplanned murder - the argument holds no weight here. If a murderer is in a situation that causes him to kill on the spur-of-the-moment (e.g. he walks on his wife cheating on him) he will use any weapon available to him. Admittedly, this could be anything - including a knife. But with easy access to firearms (e.g. if he is carrying one with him) then the murderer just has another weapon that he can access.
Manslaughter - Firearms are a lot more complex than knives. If not handeled correctly, they can quite easily kill by mistake. Knives can too, technically, but the threat is much less severe.
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;38126476]no gun shops in UK[/QUOTE]
just to be pedantic but there's loads. there's one just down the road from where i work
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;38126476]no gun shops in UK[/QUOTE]
Where did you get that from?
There is a shop near me that sells shotguns, air rifles, and some normal rifles
[editline]21st October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Fourm Shark;38128106]Its hard to believe that citizens of the UK have absolutely no gun rights. Not even for recreational shooting? You guys have got to try that sometime.[/QUOTE]
We do, pheasants errywhere
[QUOTE=Fourm Shark;38128106]Its hard to believe that citizens of the UK have absolutely no gun rights. Not even for recreational shooting? You guys have got to try that sometime.[/QUOTE]
We do. We just have a lot more in the way of processing before you can get approved to purchase a gun, and a few restrictions on pistols because of reactionary lawmaking.
[QUOTE=Fourm Shark;38128106]Its hard to believe that citizens of the UK have absolutely no gun rights. Not even for recreational shooting? You guys have got to try that sometime.[/QUOTE]
Why would anyone want to go recreational shooting?
Obviously some people do, because it happens, but the vast majority have no interest whatsoever in guns, either as a weapon for defence or a source of entertainment.
[QUOTE=Fourm Shark;38128106]Its hard to believe that citizens of the UK have absolutely no gun rights. Not even for recreational shooting? You guys have got to try that sometime.[/QUOTE]
Let's keep it that way, gun culture is terrible.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;38126461]What if a legally purchased firearm from a gun shop was used to commit a crime? Would the owner of the gun shop get charged?[/QUOTE]
No, because he's selling to someone legally licensed to have a firearm, rather than some guy selling pistols to gang members who know they are probably going to end up firing it at someone or at minimum going to threaten people with it.
[QUOTE=Fourm Shark;38128106]Its hard to believe that citizens of the UK have absolutely no gun rights. Not even for recreational shooting? You guys have got to try that sometime.[/QUOTE]
I [B]love[/B] this misconception. I am not even going to bother to point why its wrong...
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38128282]Let's keep it that way, gun culture is terrible.[/QUOTE]
Have to disagree; the people I've been shooting with in the UK have almost universally been level headed, sensible people who enjoy gun sports and are perfectly willing to include newcomers.
[QUOTE=Askaris;38128389]Have to disagree; the people I've been shooting with in the UK have almost universally been level headed, sensible people who enjoy gun sports and are perfectly willing to include newcomers.[/QUOTE]
Do you not know what I mean by gun culture?
Like, to the point its integral in American culture as much as ragecomics are integral to reddit?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38128478]Do you not know what I mean by gun culture?
Like, to the point its integral in American culture as much as ragecomics are integral to reddit?[/QUOTE]
as part of the american gun culture i agree with you
however, some gun people are very nice and intelligent. one of my friends is actually a professor at ASU, and he owns five FALs, a Galil, an AR-15, and some .44 Mag revolvers.
remember, the minority is always the loudest
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