EU referendum: British public wrong about nearly everything, survey shows - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Wickerman123;50499258]The problem is that there are so many things that could happen, things that your average bod probably wouldn't understand. There's so much to think about when it comes to a decision like this that it seems silly putting it to public vote because even those that actually do research instead of blindly following a leader, will still have trouble weighing up everything. Coming from Scotland the only true fact I'm aware of is that the EU shits on our fishermen. I'm for remain but our fishermen really do need a better deal if we stay.[/QUOTE] Common Fisheries Policy is not negotiable for the EU and they will not budge so that isn't going to happen.

To put my 2 cents in, people complain that the EU doesn't do anything for us but you'd be hard pressed to find any region of Scotland where there hasn't been something funded or part-funded by the EU. In my eyes, it would probably be beneficial for England to leave the EU but not for Scotland. I just don't like the idea of having a conservative government reigning over a separated UK considering how much they've already shat on the vulnerable in our Society and their plans to replace the human rights act.

HRA is nothing to do with the EU and even if we did repeal it (looking more and more unlikely now) would still mean we are subject to the ECHR, just only in the ECtHR and not in British courts

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50499267]Common Fisheries Policy is not negotiable for the EU and they will not budge so that isn't going to happen.[/QUOTE] Something has to be done. It's not right that local fisherman are barred from fishing in places they've fished for years when some trawler from another country can just waltz on in and dredge the so called "no-fish" zone.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50499255]do people actually still believe the EU parliament does anything. listing its theoretical powers doesn't change the reality that it is a rubber stamp that noone cares about. [/QUOTE] It's never going to do shit when the people we vote in have the policy of not even bothering to show up for anything.

[QUOTE=Worstcase;50498683]A thousand people is not a reasonable sample size of the UK. They didn't even bother to say where they collected this information. This survey is largely meaningless.[/QUOTE] A sample size of 1,000 is extremely reasonable. Even half of that would be reasonable for decent accuracy: [img]https://www.checkmarket.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/estimate_population_survey_sample.gif[/img] (Notice how sample size is a logarithmic curve) I am really sick of reading these kinds of posts in every thread that mentions a survey. It's really not that hard to learn about how surveys and statistics work. It should be a bannable offence to say 'but that survey has a poor sample size!!' when it has a decent sample size.

[QUOTE=sb27;50499309]A sample size of 1,000 is extremely reasonable. Even half of that would be reasonable for decent accuracy: [img]https://www.checkmarket.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/estimate_population_survey_sample.gif[/img] (Notice how sample size is a logarithmic curve) I am really sick of reading these kinds of posts in every thread that mentions a survey. It's really not that hard to learn about how surveys and statistics work. It should be a bannable offence to say 'but that survey has a poor sample size!!' when it has a decent sample size.[/QUOTE] for the love of god please make it bannable, it would help so much with any thread involving a survey. People always bring up bullshit about sample sizes without knowing anything about it if it disagrees with what they want to believe

[QUOTE=sb27;50499309]A sample size of 1,000 is extremely reasonable. Even half of that would be reasonable for decent accuracy: [img]https://www.checkmarket.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/estimate_population_survey_sample.gif[/img] (Notice how sample size is a logarithmic curve) I am really sick of reading these kinds of posts in every thread that mentions a survey. It's really not that hard to learn about how surveys and statistics work. It should be a bannable offence to say 'but that survey has a poor sample size!!' when it has a decent sample size.[/QUOTE] Doesn't address the other point though, doesn't say where they collected the information.

[QUOTE=sb27;50499309]A sample size of 1,000 is extremely reasonable. Even half of that would be reasonable for decent accuracy: [img]https://www.checkmarket.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/estimate_population_survey_sample.gif[/img] (Notice how sample size is a logarithmic curve) I am really sick of reading these kinds of posts in every thread that mentions a survey. It's really not that hard to learn about how surveys and statistics work. It should be a bannable offence to say 'but that survey has a poor sample size!!' when it has a decent sample size.[/QUOTE] Tell me what metodology they used and I'll tell if it's reliable If they did a random sampling, then it's pretty representative.....

[QUOTE=Ardosos;50499586]Doesn't address the other point though, doesn't say where they collected the information.[/QUOTE] [quote]Technical note: • Fieldwork was conducted 29th April to 5th May 2016 and 27th to 30th May 2016. • In total, 1,000 interviews were conducted using i:Omnibus – Ipsos MORI’s online panel. For the additional wave of fieldwork, a total of 1,083 interviews were conducted. All questions include all respondents unless stated otherwise (all adults aged 18-75). • The results have been weighted to reflect the known profile of the adult population in Great Britain. They are weighted on age, gender, social grade, region and work status. • Averages where specified refer to the median value (that is the response from the respondent in the middle of a ranked distribution) • As the data includes some outliers, the median value was chosen over the mean as a representative of the centre of the data. Median values, unlike the mean, are unaffected by outlying measurements. • Ipsos MORI has worked with Full Fact, the UK’s independent fact checking charity, to establish the correct versions of the actual data and facts used. [/quote] [url]https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3742/The-Perils-of-Perception-and-the-EU.aspx[/url] The results were weighted, to account for deviations from the general population. This point has already been addressed by other posters in this thread. I don't know why you would think a professional research organisation, one of the largest in the UK, would not dot their i's and cross their t's with their surveys.

Yeah, not surprised in all honesty. There's been so much misinformation and scaremongering over this, and the only reason I'm not looking forward to the actual election results is because I'm worried that Britain is going to make a stupid decision because of it, even if it does mean we might finally get some peace and quiet from all this Brexit shit

i'm mostly concerned because if we leave then it'll become much harder for me to travel in and around Europe, plus my girlfriend will find it much harder to immigrate here (or I will find it harder to move to her country). restricting the movement of peoples even slightly is something i cannot agree with because one of the major pillars of the whole "leave the EU" is that we'll get control over our borders (and considering the political climate people want to increase controls)

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50501308]i'm mostly concerned because if we leave then it'll become much harder for me to travel in and around Europe, plus my girlfriend will find it much harder to immigrate here (or I will find it harder to move to her country). restricting the movement of peoples even slightly is something i cannot agree with because one of the major pillars of the whole "leave the EU" is that we'll get control over our borders (and considering the political climate people want to increase controls)[/QUOTE] Which is a bit of a joke in all honesty, speaking as someone whose close family works in the UK Border Force I can tell everyone with every confidence that leaving the EU will not lead us to the land of milk and honey where immigrants can't get in to take our houses and jobs.

[QUOTE=RearAdmiral;50501325]Which is a bit of a joke in all honesty, speaking as someone whose close family works in the UK Border Force I can tell everyone with every confidence that leaving the EU will not lead us to the land of milk and honey where immigrants can't get in to take our houses and jobs.[/QUOTE] the biggest problem is it'll make it more difficult in general to move about, as already some of the requirements to become a british citizen (like taking some bizarre test with stupid questions) seem too much already

[QUOTE=Rossy167;50498615]The whole "well we don't know what'll happen if we leave/stay" thing is really dumb to me. Like sure nobody could give you a definite answer with specific numbers and stuff, but there are tons of economic explainations to the benefits and costs of being in or not being in a trade bloc. We could talk about social issues all day, and I'd happen to disagree with a lot of nationalism and isolationism, but there's a lot more to the discussion than "we has too many Muslims" and "we're being controlled by unelected government of the United States of Europe".[/QUOTE] You don't have time for researching complicated politics when you need to hold down a 40 hour job while taking core of a family and still having time for hobbies and relaxation and basic needs like sleep and food. Or in any number of other shit situations. People are too busy to be educated.

Every Saturday and Sunday morning I work in a small supermarket and it faqlls to be to bring in the papers and sort them out, count, scan them for stock taking, put the magazines and inserts in etc... So every week I get a glance at what new brand of bullshit the media is spinning and it seems that every week some papers will print. "Leaving EU will harm pensions!" and others will print "Staying in EU will harm pensions!" It's clear that the older voters are being targeted, rallying them up into a fit of old generation sensibilities and ill-educated rage. The sad thing is these people will go out and vote in force because when you're old and retired you have little else better to do and when each side is whipping them up with things like "You old people will literally have your money stolen if we stay/remain" you can bet your Jolly backside they are going to do it. There was an infamous case where the sun printed "Queen backs brexit" which was an outright fabrication, when they were called out on their shit and told to correct it, in next week paper they printed a tiny little thing at the top of the front page that said "Turns out we were wrong about the queen bit." never said which bit or when, that's it, that's their apology. I honestly have never heard a good argument either for or against leaving and as neither side can provide any unbiased information I will choose to remain because I do not have enough data as to the consequences of leaving.

I still haven't received my polling card, am I fucked if it doesn't show up? Registered to vote twice as well before the deadline..

[QUOTE=xianlee;50502206]I still haven't received my polling card, am I fucked if it doesn't show up? Registered to vote twice as well before the deadline..[/QUOTE] You don't need it to vote but if you haven't got it you should probably call and see what's up.

A referendum is only public opinion, pretty much. It wouldn't surprise me whatsoever if the majority of votes are LEAVE we would stay in the EU, or vice-versa.

[QUOTE=FreyasFighter;50503946]A referendum is only public opinion, pretty much. It wouldn't surprise me whatsoever if the majority of votes are LEAVE we would stay in the EU, or vice-versa.[/QUOTE] Highly unlikely and politically impossible. A majority of the Conservative Party are Brexiters, and they will force out Cameron if they win either way. The question is what control Parliament has over the leaving [I]process[/I] - several have already said that they will use a pro-EEA majority to prevent any leaving of the single market entirely.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50504663]Highly unlikely and politically impossible. A majority of the Conservative Party are Brexiters, and they will force out Cameron if they win either way. The question is what control Parliament has over the leaving [I]process[/I] - several have already said that they will use a pro-EEA majority to prevent any leaving of the single market entirely.[/QUOTE] If we leave but keep open borders and/or EU regulations then everyone will be annoyed.

[QUOTE=FreyasFighter;50503946]A referendum is only public opinion, pretty much. It wouldn't surprise me whatsoever if the majority of votes are LEAVE we would stay in the EU, or vice-versa.[/QUOTE] Plebiscites are measures of public opinion. Referendums are generally binding.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50504663]Highly unlikely and politically impossible. A majority of the Conservative Party are Brexiters, and they will force out Cameron if they win either way. The question is what control Parliament has over the leaving [I]process[/I] - several have already said that they will use a pro-EEA majority to prevent any leaving of the single market entirely.[/QUOTE] A deal needs both sides to agree. We can't leave abs declare ' oh btw we're still in the eea' also we'll still have to follow eu regulations but without having any say in what they entail. Talk about sovereignty.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50508404]A deal needs both sides to agree. We can't leave abs declare ' oh btw we're still in the eea' also we'll still have to follow eu regulations but without having any say in what they entail. Talk about sovereignty.[/QUOTE] We've already been invited to the EEA by their members though

[QUOTE=sb27;50505918]Plebiscites are measures of public opinion. Referendums are generally binding.[/QUOTE] parliament is sovereign, they can ignore the results if they wanted not that it wouldn't be political suicide to do so

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50508797]We've already been invited to the EEA by their members though[/QUOTE] Not 100% sure about that. Wolfgang Schäuble, admittedly no real power but might be representative of other european views, said the UK won't have access to the single market (I think EEA => single market .'. !single market => !EEA) Europe has an incentive and power (size) to dictate the terms of any future trade agreement. And even if we get the best case scenario of access to single market, we sitll have to abide by the regulations but without having any say in the matter, so we'll still have the costs and limitiations but without the benefits of being in the EU and without any say regarding current or future regulation. [editline]13th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50508836]parliament is sovereign, they can ignore the results if they wanted not that it wouldn't be political suicide to do so[/QUOTE] Half of the country is going to be mighty upset regardless of the result of this referendum. Call be naive/dangerous/stupid but I wouldn't mind parliment overriding the referendum, since Leave has been pushing a campaign of misinformation from the very beginning. Democracy only works if people are educated and there have been large measures made to miseducate and trick people into voting against their own interest.

what's funny is if we leave the EU, Irish citizens will be fucked. nobody thinks about that, they think 40% of the population is romanian/albanians.

I'm not exactly qualified to say this as I live on the opposite side of the world, but maybe it's best for the UK to remain. There are so many uncertainties about what would happen if the UK left, so would it really be worth the risk? Of all the EU countries, the UK is probably one of the better-off ones. The UK can't complain about refugees, because continental EU countries such as Germany are taking in so many more. If it's a problem with the EU itself, maybe it's the EU that needs reforming rather than just simply leaving it.