Hostage situation taking place now in Orlando. [50+ dead, suspect killed]
916 replies, posted
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50514596]That's Old Testament. It's Jewish. It's also supposedly by Moses. Moses isn't supposed to be God like allah is. IIRC he actually enraged God from disobedience, and was barred from entering "the promised land" according to the books.
[editline]13th June 2016[/editline]
Ah well, for the most part Old Testament is adapted from Judaism and New Testament was Christianity based[/QUOTE]
The point I was trying to make was that just because something is in a holy text, doesn't make it relevant to today's world. There's a lot of things in the Bible that are no longer relevant. Yet, there's still a strong backlash against homosexuality from christian faith because it goes against the religion. And Leviticus is [url=http://carm.org/bible-homosexuality]still cited[/url] in the bible when discussing homosexuality as a sin.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50514650]So your example of religion not being related to people's actions is pointing to an example where religion is clearly and directly responsible for people's behavior?
Like, that's the reason christians are homophobic to begin with. Because the Bible directly states that homosexuality is immoral.[/QUOTE]
His point was that a lot of Christians disavow books like Leviticus. But it's flawed because the Bible isn't portrayed as being from God's own hands, and Leviticus is adapted from the Torah anyway.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50508697]This is because firearms are a protected constitutional right. You don't lose your rights for being "watched" or "investigated."
You lose them following a conviction and successful application of due process. The reason why some are placed on no-fly lists without due process is because boarding a commercial airliner is not a constitutional right.[/QUOTE]
this is so fucked dude
i mean, nobody should be able to buy these at all. hearing people talk about owning guns as a right is so sickening.
but more to the point, the guy was clearly incredibly unwell. if you have no (good) systems in place preventing an extremely unwell person from buying something like this, your country is fucked.
[QUOTE=OvB;50514658]The point I was trying to make was that just because something is in a holy text, doesn't make it relevant to today's world. There's a lot of things in the Bible that are no longer relevant. Yet, there's still a strong backlash against homosexuality from christian faith because it goes against the religion. And Leviticus is [url=http://carm.org/bible-homosexuality]still cited[/url] in the bible when discussing homosexuality as a sin.[/QUOTE]
Yeah totally, I know that a lot of Christians bring up Leviticus and Old Testament teachings to justify being bigoted but they're stupid for Old Testament is a leftover from Judaism, admittingly written by humans, and it's filled with horrible stuff that contradict Jesus' message.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50508809]You know what? Fuck it, I don't care what anyone has to say about it, I'm going to flat out say that this is a prime example of why we need more guns. Here's a rambling post why I feel this way:
[/QUOTE]
you're insane. look at what is happening to your country as a result of this mentality
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50514668]His point was that a lot of Christians disavow books like Leviticus. But it's flawed because the Bible isn't portrayed as being from God's own hands, and Leviticus is adapted from the Torah anyway.[/QUOTE]
That was the point I was trying to make, but I guess the fact that some people [I]do[/I] still use Leviticus to justify homosexuality as a sin means I caught myself in a contradiction.
Obviously not every Christian or Muslim has to think gay people are of the devil, but if a Christian or a Muslim starts shouting about how gays are of the devil it isn't hard to see where the idea came from.
[QUOTE=OvB;50509465]Gun bans don't magically make the guns go away.[/QUOTE]
yeah. not overnight
it's a long-term solution. about creating a better future.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;50514692]this is so fucked dude
i mean, nobody should be able to buy these at all. hearing people talk about owning guns as a right is so sickening.
but more to the point, the guy was clearly incredibly unwell. if you have no (good) systems in place preventing an extremely unwell person from buying something like this, your country is fucked.[/QUOTE]
He wasn't "unwell", he was an extremist. What do you want to do, have us arrest for thought crimes?
Also, owning guns IS a right in this country. It's not sickening, it's fact.
[QUOTE=phygon;50514744]He wasn't "unwell", he was an extremist. What do you want to do, have us arrest for thought crimes?
Also, owning guns IS a right in this country. It's not sickening, it's fact.[/QUOTE]
it can be both sickening and a fact
not that I necessarily agree
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50514698]Yeah totally, I know that a lot of Christians bring up Leviticus and Old Testament teachings to justify being bigoted but they're stupid for Old Testament is a leftover from Judaism, admittingly written by humans, and it's filled with horrible stuff that contradict Jesus' message.[/QUOTE]I flipped to a random page of Leviticus one day to see what else it said, and there was something in there about making sure you bring your sacrificial goats to confession if you want it to be legit.
[quote=Leviticus 23:18]Along with the bread you shall present seven one year old male lambs without defect, and a bull of the herd and two rams; they are to be a burnt offering to the LORD, with their grain offering and their drink offerings, an offering by fire of a soothing aroma to the LORD. [/quote]
:what:
Total firearm proliferation is the only fair way, taking it from citizens then employing it on governments is a recipe for bad.
Edit:
The psychopaths would just work their way into government and carry out their agenda that way.
[QUOTE=OvB;50514763]I flipped to a random page of Leviticus one day to see what else it said, and there was something in there about making sure you bring your sacrificial goats to confession if you want it to be legit.
:what:[/QUOTE]
Dude stop disrespecting religion you fucking bigot
god
Anybody who insults religion is a fedora-tipper
[QUOTE=Rusty100;50514692]i mean, nobody should be able to buy these at all.[/QUOTE]
yea we should totally persecute and ban the majority of law abiding gun owners because of the actions of an extreme minority
Sounds like Trump
[QUOTE=phygon;50514744]He wasn't "unwell", he was an extremist. What do you want to do, have us arrest for thought crimes?
Also, owning guns IS a right in this country. It's not sickening, it's fact.[/QUOTE]
[quote]"I quit because everything he said was toxic," Gilroy said Sunday, "and the company wouldn't do anything. This guy was unhinged and unstable. He talked of killing people."
[/quote]
he sounds really mentally unwell to me
[QUOTE=Fort83;50514776]The fact that you need to have it as a right is what's sickening. Owning a gun should be a privilege that's earned instead of automatically having a right to one and having them so easily accessible to everyone and their grandma.[/QUOTE]
You don't just waltz in. You need private sellers to avoid the process, and it is illegal there.
[QUOTE=-nesto-;50514780]yea we should totally persecute and ban the majority of law abiding gun owners because of the actions of an extreme minority
Sounds like Trump[/QUOTE]
not persecute. just take away their guns. yes. absolutely. you shouldn't have them in the first place. your founding fathers fucked up, or really, they didn't, you're not militias in 2016.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;50514804]not persecute. just take away their guns. yes. absolutely. you shouldn't have them in the first place. your founding fathers fucked up, or really, they didn't, you're not militias in 2016.[/QUOTE]
Where do you take them? Do you go door to door, searching a house for guns? Guns are not registered in a database they can just look up and find it easy. You would have to violate a lot more than just the 2nd amendment to do such a thing. You can advocate bans, restrictions, controls all you want but if you don't at least acknowledge the difficulty in doing such a thing then what's the point in arguing?
Not to mention you'd also have to stop the flow of black market arms trades. You announce to the world that the state is going to start taking peoples guns, and a lot of guns are suddenly going to disappear from whatever lead you had on them. Then wind up in next weekends gang bang because criminal entities will not give up so easily. You've essentially created a "War on Guns" akin to the War on Drugs. Guns are stolen and sold to people who want them for whatever reason. Fresh guns are smuggled in from Mexico. etc. etc. You [I]created[/I] a problem.
The solution isn't as simple as remove guns = remove violence. You need to work on removing the violence at its source. Poverty, drugs, organized crime, etc, etc. Gun violence is a symptom to a deeper illness. Which is why you don't see it in countries that are significantly smaller and got their shit together because their biggest city has maybe a million or two people in it.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;50514724]yeah. not overnight
it's a long-term solution. about creating a better future.[/QUOTE]
Explain to me how this works. Tell me how people having the desire to do something is stopped by simply removing one optional tool in doing so.
[QUOTE=OvB;50514863]Where do you take them? Do you go door to door, searching a house for guns? Guns are not registered in a database they can just look up and find it easy. You would have to violate a lot more than just the 2nd amendment to do such a thing. You can advocate bans, restrictions, controls all you want but if you don't at least acknowledge the difficulty in doing such a thing then what's the point in arguing?
Not to mention you'd also have to stop the flow of black market arms trades. You announce to the world that the state is going to start taking peoples guns, and a lot of guns are suddenly going to disappear from whatever lead you had on them. Then wind up in next weekends gang bang because criminal entities will not give up so easily. You've essentially created a "War on Guns" akin to the War on Drugs. Guns are stolen and sold to people who want them for whatever reason. Fresh guns are smuggled in from Mexico. etc. etc. You [I]created[/I] a problem.[/QUOTE]
like i said, not overnight. you make them increasingly harder and harder to get over the course of many years, people get more and more accustomed to having less around until it becomes normal. you know, like it should be.
but then again, we banned guns practically overnight and haven't had a mass shooting since. but obviously you're a bigger country with more people and more guns, which is why you ween it off.
do you at least acknowledge that increasing the amount of guns will create even more problems?
I don't think I've ever seen a better argument against government gun seizure, very well said OvB
[QUOTE=OvB;50514863]Where do you take them? Do you go door to door, searching a house for guns? Guns are not registered in a database they can just look up and find it easy. You would have to violate a lot more than just the 2nd amendment to do such a thing. You can advocate bans, restrictions, controls all you want but if you don't at least acknowledge the difficulty in doing such a thing then what's the point in arguing? [/QUOTE]
Ah yes the age old "it's too hard so lets not try" argument. Do we just give up at everything we deem hard at the moment? No, we shouldn't. It should be a gradual process. First you could implement a system where background and mental health checks are a must before buying a gun is allowed. And also make it so all future gun purchases must be registered.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;50514880]like i said, not overnight. you make them increasingly harder and harder to get over the course of many years, people get more and more accustomed to having less around until it becomes normal. you know, like it should be.
but then again, we banned guns practically overnight and haven't had a mass shooting since. but obviously you're a bigger country with more people and more guns, which is why you ween it off.
do you at least acknowledge that increasing the amount of guns will create even more problems?[/QUOTE]
That doesnt stop people, Rusty.
Prohibition doesnt work. It doesnt work for drugs, it didnt work for alcohol, it doesnt work for guns already banned.
Legal gunowners rarely cause problems. Most gun related deaths in the US are suicide related.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50514876]Explain to me how this works. Tell me how people having the desire to do something is stopped by simply removing one optional tool in doing so.[/QUOTE]
chainsaws were made to cut wood. hammers to hit nails. guns to kill people as efficiently as possible. imagine people still using the 'tool' argument.
yeah how would removing the things designed to kill people with ease prevent some people from being killed with ease? what the hecks!
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50514889]Ah yes the age old "it's too hard so lets not try" argument. Do we just give up at everything we deem hard at the moment? No, we shouldn't. It should be a gradual process. First you could implement a system where background and mental health checks are a must before buying a gun is allowed. And also make it so all future gun purchases must be registered.[/QUOTE]
Ah yes the age old "read only the first paragraph and jump" reply
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50514889]Ah yes the age old "it's too hard so lets not try" argument. Do we just give up at everything we deem hard at the moment? No, we shouldn't. It should be a gradual process. First you could implement a system where background and mental health checks are a must before buying a gun is allowed. And also make it so all future gun purchases must be registered.[/QUOTE]
exactly. what i'm hearing is "we're already fucked, there's nothing we can do"
there is, it's just difficult and long. but starting it now is better than starting it later.
have a buyback system for guns, do literally anything. but doing nothing isn't working out for you guys!
[QUOTE=Rusty100;50514896]chainsaws were made to cut wood. hammers to hit nails. guns to kill people as efficiently as possible. imagine people still using the 'tool' argument.
yeah how would removing the things designed to kill people with ease prevent some people from being killed with ease? what the hecks![/QUOTE]
Because you're removing them from people who arent causing the problem Rusty.
Also, not all guns. Theres guns designed for hunting and sport just as theres knives and hammers designed for killing, dont be dumb.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50514891]
Legal gunowners rarely cause problems. [/QUOTE]
look, i'm not sure what the statistics are, but that doesn't sound right to me.
reminder that this dude was a legal gun owner. happy to be proven wrong with real stats
[QUOTE=Rusty100;50514907]but doing nothing isn't working out for you guys![/QUOTE]
Did you know the guns used in the columbine massacre were obtained illegaly.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;50514896]chainsaws were made to cut wood. hammers to hit nails. guns to kill people as efficiently as possible. [b]imagine people still using the 'tool' argument.[/b][/QUOTE]
I guess hunters can just go fuck themselves.
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