Hostage situation taking place now in Orlando. [50+ dead, suspect killed]
916 replies, posted
[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50502377]Nice straw man.[/QUOTE]
Is it really?
You're imagining a fantasy world wherein guns were never invented.
He's imagining a fantasy scenario in which it balances out, because the morale is that humans do this, not the guns.
[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;50502313]No, no you do not need a state license in florida.
[IMG]http://puu.sh/pq6z3/7c7c713890.png[/IMG]
For source, I know one person in FL that has a fetish for mosin nagants and owns several firearms. I also know someone in minnesota who needed a sheriff to approve them in order to purchase a handgun.[/QUOTE]
The laws probably changed since I was stationed there. As a Minnesota resident and gun dealer I know the sheriff doesn't have to be involved with anything in reguards to buying a hand gun. Local police cheif yes, but not the sheriff.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50502367]Doing nothing would allow us to direct money that would be used for operational forces, to programs that actually need it.
What happens when someone manages to fill the void? With fossil fuel use declining, and with energy independence a definite possibility, it wouldn't matter who filled the void. We'll eventually depend on nothing from that region and we can let it descend into the shithole that it's so desperately trying to become.
Unless you're willing to wage war for 20-30 years, you're not going to change that area. Wanna go and kill ISIS? Great, go do that, and watch and be amazed when another organization sprouts back up in 5-10 years. Repeat ad nausium.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying we have another war. I'm saying that we need to use our other resouces. Arming the Kurds and giving them a state would help. Maybe propaganda would help. Doing absolutely nothing would be as bad as starting another war of attrition against an ideology.
[QUOTE=gjsdeath;50502222]Apparently, one of the responding LEOs got hit in the helmet by the shooter. I'm amazed it stopped the round.
[Media]https://twitter.com/OrlandoPolice/status/742009920808210432[/media]
I live in Melbourne, FL, about 45 minutes from Orlando. Pretty scary such a big mass shooting happened so close. I hope the injured recover fully.[/QUOTE]
Kevlar is one hell of a fabric.
Just heard about this. Holy fucking shit this is terrible. I can't imagine what the families must be going through.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50502403]Yes, arm them. And then watch those arms disappear to other fronts magically.
Don't do a fucking thing, let this shit sort itself out. Stop sticking the US dick into every filthy hole.[/QUOTE]
Except it really isn't? Look at Africa. We've been ignoring it and its getting worse
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;50502396]The laws probably changed since I was stationed there. As a Minnesota resident and gun dealer I know the sheriff doesn't have to be involved with anything in reguards to buying a hand gun. Local police cheif yes, but not the sheriff.[/QUOTE]
Ah perhaps thats the one. Got that mixed up, my apologies. Still more strict than FL. Not as bad as IL, CA, NY.
[QUOTE=mralexs;50502342]What would doing nothing in the middle east accomplish? What happens when someone manages to fill the power vacuum that's left?[/QUOTE]
The problem is it's impossible to permanently stamp out guerilla warfare or even lone wolves inspired to carry out attacks in the name of a cause or religion. All you can do is keep such groups off balance enough by disrupting their power structure, cutting off recruitment, and destroying as many of their group members as possible while ensuring as little collateral damage as possible. They see themselves as fighting against the degenerate western nations and go so far as to label anybody who doesn't support their cause as apostates worthy of death. Even rigorous surveillance will not be enough to deter a sufficiently determined lone wolf or group of attackers from carrying out their threats completely. Personally I believe it's a catch-22 when it comes to the subject of Islamic terrorism - doing nothing ensures that they continue to play merry hell in their spheres of influence where their group(s) operates, while openly going to war to them could have short and long term consequences in inspiring more to radicalization, among other things.
[QUOTE=plunger435;50502380]They're in full lockdown after they were slammed rightfully by every media organization last time for allowing their users to speculate on the Bostom Bombers identities.[/QUOTE]
The shooter was already identified by the FBI.
[QUOTE=Perrine;50502424]The shooter was already identified by the FBI.[/QUOTE]
And the thread was open prior to the debriefing.
[QUOTE=redBadger;50502366]Doesn't seem like there are any non violent ways to deal with Isis mate.[/QUOTE]
At this moment in time, nothing outside of violence exists. Wars are already being fought by several governments in the Middle East, the best we could do is just offer supplies and logistics. Sending our own flesh and metal will just make them dependent on our forces for security. We can only hope that the local populations in those regions, decide to join their governments in fighting radical Islamist groups like IS.
One thing which is required to fight though is having a good amount of supplies. We can start by sending medical equipment to the Iraqis, Kurds, and Syrians, as they currently have a mortality rate for wounded at something like 65% at this current moment in time. Not to mention we could also send them the tech to build large greenhouse structures in order to make them self-sufficient with food in smaller areas. From some stories I have read about American volunteers in Iraqi Kurdistan, at best they get a tomato they can eat, most of the time they rely on the locals or air-dropped supplies from the Coalition to feed them.
Then you have to deal with weapons. Naturally, no one wants to send any forces weapons, as it can always end up in the wrong hands and be used against us. Most supplies used by Kurdish and Iraqi militias is hand-me-downs from the Iran-Iraq War and Gulf Wars. I'd imagine if we were to give them the equipment to manufacture firearms, such as CNC mills and lathes, they'd be able to manufacture their own gear with relative ease, as is the case with places like the Khyber Pass. They already have guys repairing firearms with small bits of metal and such, giving them proper machining equipment and some material would go a very long way.
We should get back to discussing the ongoing situation though.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;50502337]Boy this is rich for a guy who complains about "war hawking" presidential candidates.
Wiping ISIS out by force is a futile task and you should fucking well know it if you claim to have a mote of the understanding of history you like to project. You kill them, all of them? Great, but in the process you've pissed off more locals who formed a new group to take their place in the new power vacuum. This is the nature of fighting terrorism via force.[/QUOTE]
They could easily be thinned down to the point of virtually being a nonissue.
It's still a better solution than the current "sit around doing nothing while they continue to increase their kill count by the thousands" that we've currently been trying for the last few years. It's quite clear nonintervention has a been a total failure.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;50502423]The problem is it's impossible to permanently stamp out guerilla warfare or even lone wolves inspired to carry out attacks in the name of a cause or religion. All you can do is keep such groups off balance enough by disrupting their power structure, cutting off recruitment, and destroying as many of their group members as possible while ensuring as little collateral damage as possible. They see themselves as fighting against the degenerate western nations and go so far as to label anybody who doesn't support their cause as apostates worthy of death. Even rigorous surveillance will not be enough to deter a sufficiently determined lone wolf or group of attackers from carrying out their threats completely. Personally I believe it's a catch-22 when it comes to the subject of Islamic terrorism - doing nothing ensures that they continue to play merry hell in their spheres of influence where their group(s) operates, while openly going to war to them could have short and long term consequences in inspiring more to radicalization, among other things.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. The only way to kill an ideology is the make people stop believing in it.
[QUOTE=Perrine;50502424]The shooter was already identified by the FBI.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say it was about identifying him, but scroll through the deleted posts and ones not complaining about censorship are mostly saying definitively what the motive was, they're waiting for an official statement this time to protect themselves.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;50502396]The laws probably changed since I was stationed there. As a Minnesota resident and gun dealer I know the sheriff doesn't have to be involved with anything in reguards to buying a hand gun. Local police cheif yes, but not the sheriff.[/QUOTE]
No you were just wrong. There was never a permit required in Florida to purchase handguns or black evil guns with detachable magazines 4 years ago. Otherwise I would have been required to get one. All I did was my background check walked out with my guns.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;50502453][media]https://twitter.com/jessnosleeves/status/742015576973967360[/media][/QUOTE]
Gay men are usually banned from donating blood?
The fuck.
[QUOTE=paul simon;50502460]Gay men are usually banned from donating blood?
The fuck.[/QUOTE]
Probably AIDS or something dumb.
I always fear the social consequences of these attacks just as much as I do the attacks themselves. There will be a massive backlash of misguided outrage, ugliness, and hatred in the weeks and months that follow. The social and political aftershocks of this tragedy will inevitably cause more long-term damage to the harmony of the country than the attack itself.
[QUOTE=paul simon;50502460]Gay men are usually banned from donating blood?
The fuck.[/QUOTE]
"I might get HIV!!!! Gay men are icky!!!"
It's a weird holdover from the days of blatant discrimination that we could easily get rid of by just performing checks on the donated blood.
[QUOTE=paul simon;50502460]Gay men are usually banned from donating blood?
The fuck.[/QUOTE]
IIRC They had higher HIV rates
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50502340]The only solution it seems is to reinforce our borders and actually make an organization which handles NCIS background checks properly, instead of just instantly marking them okay once they go through with no criminal history.
Outside of that, the only way we could realistically find these people is by discriminatory searches of certain races/religions, while also invading people's privacy to see what they are doing.[/QUOTE]
I don't know man, stopping drone wars that incite terror upon the civillian population as well as maybe stop celebration of a culture of waste and decadence that's easily broadcasted in the media together with stop of funding regimes that actively promote extremism in exchange for ressourcce security would do a [I]little[/I] bit more than "wiping them"
[QUOTE=Killuah;50502481]I don't know man, stopping drone wars that incite terror upon the civillian population as well as maybe stopping to celebrate a culture of waste and decadence that's easily broadcasted in the media together with stopping to fund regimes that actively promote extremism in exchange for ressourcce security would do a [I]little[/I] bit more than "wiping them"[/QUOTE]
The drones causing terrorism thing is bollocks
[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/17/drone-blow-back-in-pakistan-is-a-myth-heres-why/[/url]
[QUOTE=mralexs;50502472]IIRC They had higher HIV rates[/QUOTE]
Might be true, but still doesn't justify the ban. Anyone with a clean bill of health should be able to donate. (Not assuming you support the ban, btw)
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50502487]The drones causing terrorism thing is bollocks
[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/17/drone-blow-back-in-pakistan-is-a-myth-heres-why/[/url][/QUOTE]
I said it incites terror.
Maybe "causes terror upon people" is better wording
[QUOTE=hexpunK;50502468]"I might get HIV!!!! Gay men are icky!!!"
It's a weird holdover from the days of blatant discrimination that we could easily get rid of by just performing checks on the donated blood.[/QUOTE]
It takes time to check blood, and newly infected people are astmptoamatic with no HIV antibodies for some time after infection.
[QUOTE=Killuah;50502481]I don't know man, stopping drone wars that incite terror upon the civillian population as well[B] as maybe stop celebration of a culture of waste and decadence that's easily broadcasted in the media[/B] together with stop of funding regimes that actively promote extremism in exchange for ressourcce security would do a [I]little[/I] bit more than "wiping them"[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously trying to blame western culture for this?
[QUOTE=plunger435;50502454]I didn't say it was about identifying him, but scroll through the deleted posts and ones not complaining about censorship are mostly saying definitively what the motive was, they're waiting for an official statement this time to protect themselves.[/QUOTE]
IMO being worried that people would call this a terrorist attack is no reason to actively push the worst shooting in US history under the rug
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50502467]I always fear the social consequences of these attacks just as much as I do the attacks themselves. There will be a massive backlash of misguided outrage, ugliness, and hatred in the weeks and months that follow. The social and political aftershocks of this tragedy will inevitably cause more long-term damage to the harmony of the country than the attack itself.[/QUOTE]
I'm not looking forward to my dad's political rantings.
I'm an O- and would gladly give my blood. Too bad I can't do anything but to wish strength for everyone involved.
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