[QUOTE=The Baconator;36356885]Isn't Germany the best off in the EU? I dunno, looking at Greece, Spain, Italy, I'd be a pissed if I was German, all these leeches destroying the EU with your own tax dollars
[editline]16th June 2012[/editline]
Just imagine if there was an American Union? Third world countries in Latin America would fuck everything up[/QUOTE]
Leeches? Greece and Spain are being fucked over constantly by the banks and Merkel, they didn't have the kind of economy to deal with a crisis this big. Third world countries in Latin America wouldn't fuck everything up, the US would. Like they're already doing by shoving globalisation down the throats of Latin Americans.
[QUOTE=Earthen;36359066]Leeches? Greece and Spain are being fucked over constantly by the banks and Merkel, they didn't have the kind of economy to deal with a crisis this big. Third world countries in Latin America wouldn't fuck everything up, the US would. Like they're already doing by shoving globalisation down the throats of Latin Americans.[/QUOTE]
Depends on what you mean by fucking everything up. It makes everything easier for the people in the USA, for sure.
Everyone else? Not so much...
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36358150]That's saying that humans are inherently different based on their birthplace, which is entirely untrue. Why can't someone from Athens be able to objectively analyze the needs of a city like London? Why should you have to live in Paris before you understand French Economics? [/QUOTE]
Culture differences, social differences. To objectively analyze a location you need people who know the area.
you can stop with the pseudo-philosophy
[QUOTE=deltasquid;36357625]There is an American Union. It's called the United States of America.[/QUOTE]
No you dingbat it's called NAFTA
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement[/url]
[QUOTE=meppers;36347587]how about let european union countries the ability to vote other countries out of the union at any time
if 70% of the EU countries dont like you, you're kicked out of the union[/QUOTE]
Because then the EU would become nothing but Germany and France.
[QUOTE=Vasili;36359407]Culture differences, social differences. To objectively analyze a location you need people who know the area.
you can stop with the pseudo-philosophy[/QUOTE]
Cultural differences and social difference make little difference from the point of economic development. There are also scientists who do nothing but study cultures and societies.
Either way, from a cultural and societal perspective, Obama shouldn't be governing me. He is a man born in Hawaii and claims Chicago as his hometown. Those two places are both VERY different culturally from Washington. What right does he have to govern me, a Washingtonian? What right does a man from Texas have to govern me?
That's where the theory of Democratic voting comes in to place. You see, we get a bunch of candidates , then we vote for the ones we like. The ones with the most votes win, it's called a majority vote.
Seriously have you like never gone to fucking elemntary school. All I see you do is post these pseudo-intellectual rants, whilst you overlook most trivial facts.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;36359433]Haha wow!
Your post is so naive it's hilarious.[/QUOTE]
You support gay rights? You're so naive!
You support equal rights for blacks? You're so naive!
You believe the authority of government is derived from the consent of the people? You're so naive!
[editline]16th June 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=bluesky;36359768]That's where the theory of Democratic voting comes in to place. You see, we get a bunch of candidates , then we vote for the ones we like. The ones with the most votes win, it's called a majority vote.
Seriously have you like never gone to fucking elemntary school. All I see you do is post these pseudo-intellectual rants, whilst you overlook most trivial facts.[/QUOTE]
Who votes? Texans and Washingtonians vote for a person who will lead all of us. Why can't the English and Greek vote for a leader who will lead them? Why can someone from two different countries, Scotland and Wales, both vote for governance over themselves but people from other countries can't build on the same compromise?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36359736]Cultural differences and social difference make little difference from the point of economic development. There are also scientists who do nothing but study cultures and societies.[/quote]
wtf economic differences are completely dependent on culture you dingo - social capital, social networks, social learning and cultural transmission within and across social groups is very important for economies to work.
you need to be aware of the people you're trading and working with.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;36360516]You're dumb as shit.
Every country on the planet is different, this is a fucking [b]well documented fact,[/b] you're acting like a whiny like shit and comparing completely irrelevant stuff to the painfully obvious cultural and language differences between countries.[/QUOTE]
Every state in the United States is different. Every province in Canada is different. Every kingdom in the United Kingdoms is different.
I never said there weren't differences, I'm saying those differences shouldn't be an impedance on international co-operation and governance.
[QUOTE=Remscar;36358062][B]United we stand, divided we fall[/B][/QUOTE]
why did they have to "unite" with Greece?
[QUOTE=Atlascore;36360566]Well too bad, they are.
Not everyone agrees with each other, hell sometimes even two towns in the same country can't agree on something, it's the way humans, and pretty much every living thing works.
As long as there are even minor differences between people and nations there's going to be some kind form of issue with cooperation.[/QUOTE]
So then tough shit because blacks will never be equal to whites.
Your defeatist attitude is absolutely fucking disgusting. Just because something is a certain way does not mean it should, and does not mean it is the only way it has to be.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;36360628]Stop bringing up irrelevant racial shit.
The only way to change something like this is if we completely removed social, cultural, and language differences from the planet.[/QUOTE]
No, it's absolutely relevant because your disgusting attitude justifies the persecution and oppression of people based on race.
"We are different, we will never be the same, therefore there shall always be conflict between us." These are the types of things you are saying.
We should just accept conflict because YOU think it's a given?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36360663]No, it's absolutely relevant because your disgusting attitude justifies the persecution and oppression of people based on race.
"We are different, we will never be the same, therefore there shall always be conflict between us." These are the types of things you are saying.
We should just accept conflict because YOU think it's a given?[/QUOTE]
There's a difference between accepting these facts and laying down and not trying to prevent it
Stop acting like he's saying that we shouldn't try to stop conflict at all
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36360663]No, it's absolutely relevant because your disgusting attitude justifies the persecution and oppression of people based on race.
"We are different, we will never be the same, therefore there shall always be conflict between us." These are the types of things you are saying.
We should just accept conflict because YOU think it's a given?[/QUOTE]
Actually, I think no one can argue that different nations do not have different mentalities. On top of that different nations have different economic bases.
Generally speaking the colder regions of Europe are the strong industrial economies, whereas the south tends to live of tourism.
Obviously as far as many stuff goes it's certainly possible to make standards that don't impact either side in a negative way. But as far as the Euro was concerned, I do believe it was a mistake for non industrial economies to rush into it to make spending for their tourists easier.
The truth of the fact is, that the industrial nations just have different economic aproaches and needs and as they tend to be the more populous countries, they also tend to push their legislature stronger forward and do have a bigger impact on the ECB.
Of course, that's not a problem with the political union but it's a problem to the monetary union. In a sense countries like the UK, Germany, France, Slovakia, nordics, CZ, Poland and others can work pretty well on the same base, because they have similarly styled economies. Countries like Greece or Spain on the other hand just can't. It's seriously damaging them.
Closing your eyes and ears and singing NADANADANADA there's no difference between countries, economies and people just doesn't work. Everyone knows that a certain difference exists. The question is how you aproach it. Political wise the EU does aproach it very well. It creates bridges and ties. Honestly once people actually see EU legislature, very few have a problem with it.
The bigger issues tend to show up on the fiscal policy and monetary union. The differences there aren't just political, they're structural, which makes them pretty much impossible to overcome in a simple way.
Of course some countries just abused the fiscal system. If you look at what was happening in Greece, you just have to laugh. The place was an economic wild west and they abused it as fuck.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;36360824]Actually, I think no one can argue that different nations have different mentalities. On top of that different nations have different economic bases.
Generally speaking the colder regions of Europe are the strong industrial economies, whereas the south tends to live of tourism.
Obviously as far as many stuff goes it's certainly possible to make standards that don't impact either side in a negative way. But as far as the Euro was concerned, I do believe it was a mistake for non industrial economies to rush into it to make spending for their tourists easier.
The truth of the fact is, that the industrial nations just have different economic aproaches and needs and as they tend to be the more populous countries, they also tend to push their legislature stronger forward and do have a bigger impact on the ECB.
Of course, that's not a problem with the political union but it's a problem to the monetary union. In a sense countries like the UK, Germany, France, Slovakia, nordics, CZ, Poland and others can work pretty well on the same base, because they have similarly styled economies. Countries like Greece or Spain on the other hand just can't. It's seriously damaging them.
Closing your eyes and ears and singing NADANADANADA there's no difference between countries, economies and people just doesn't work. Everyone knows that a certain difference exists. The question is how you aproach it. Political wise the EU does aproach it very well. It creates bridges and ties. Honestly once people actually see EU legislature, very few have a problem with it.
The bigger issues tend to show up on the fiscal policy and monetary union. The differences there aren't just political, they're structural, which makes them pretty much impossible to overcome in a simple way.
Of course some countries just abused the fiscal system. If you look at what was happening in Greece, you just have to laugh. The place was an economic wild west and they abused it as fuck.[/QUOTE]
These issues show up within national borders! The USA has different parts that are more apt towards tourism and other parts that are lean towards industry, and parts the lean towards agriculture. The idea that a nation can only sustain their economy from only one approach is erroneous.
A good system of governance would dictate that people are contributing fairly to the overall wellbeing of the system, and that they are able to share in the prosperity of the entire system. The goal would not be to homogenize cultures or economies, but to encourage co-operation between cultures and economies. The goal is to create a system where no one has to be isolated from each other, no one looks out simply for their own goals, but for the goals of society as a whole. No longer would we exploit less developed nations for resources, but we would mutually assist each other towards a broader goal of prosperity for all.
There are differences, I'm not saying that there will never be conflict, or that co-operation will always go smoothly, but we cannot simply accept conflict anymore. We need to constantly strive both as individuals and as collectives towards a more unified global society.
[editline]17th June 2012[/editline]
And just because something is difficult, or complex, does not mean it is not worth trying. Some people are so keen to say the difficulties show how impossible a situation is. We have to carry the burden of these difficulties, because that's what an honest person and an honest society does. It does not simply look at a problem and say "this is too hard to fix", it chugs along, and it will fail at some things and succeed at others, but ultimately it needs to [i]strive[/i] for these goals.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36360945]Us comparison.[/QUOTE]
And? It's not working very well in the US either with some states being borderline bankrupt as it is. The crux of the issue is, that the systems are very complex. The problem with the EU is that it couples both an economic and political system. While the poltical system works very well, the economic one is running into big issues. And they're intertwined.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36359096]Depends on what you mean by fucking everything up. It makes everything easier for the people in the USA, for sure.
Everyone else? Not so much...[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily the people of the US, more the big companies.
[editline]17th June 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=wraithcat;36360824]Actually, I think no one can argue that different nations do not have different mentalities. On top of that different nations have different economic bases.
Generally speaking the colder regions of Europe are the strong industrial economies, whereas the south tends to live of tourism.
Obviously as far as many stuff goes it's certainly possible to make standards that don't impact either side in a negative way. But as far as the Euro was concerned, I do believe it was a mistake for non industrial economies to rush into it to make spending for their tourists easier.
The truth of the fact is, that the industrial nations just have different economic aproaches and needs and as they tend to be the more populous countries, they also tend to push their legislature stronger forward and do have a bigger impact on the ECB.
Of course, that's not a problem with the political union but it's a problem to the monetary union. In a sense countries like the UK, Germany, France, Slovakia, nordics, CZ, Poland and others can work pretty well on the same base, because they have similarly styled economies. Countries like Greece or Spain on the other hand just can't. It's seriously damaging them.
Closing your eyes and ears and singing NADANADANADA there's no difference between countries, economies and people just doesn't work. Everyone knows that a certain difference exists. The question is how you aproach it. Political wise the EU does aproach it very well. It creates bridges and ties. Honestly once people actually see EU legislature, very few have a problem with it.
The bigger issues tend to show up on the fiscal policy and monetary union. The differences there aren't just political, they're structural, which makes them pretty much impossible to overcome in a simple way.
Of course some countries just abused the fiscal system. If you look at what was happening in Greece, you just have to laugh. The place was an economic wild west and they abused it as fuck.[/QUOTE]
The culture has nothing to do with economic growth. They used to say that all Germans were lazy and useless, then said people changed their views to say that the German culture was perfect for economic growth.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;36345740]No reason to believe peace won't continue if it's dissolved.
Even if the EU falls apart, Europe is too well economically tied together to risk a war.[/QUOTE]
What is all this war talk? Why he hell would anyone wage a war in europe EU or not.
The solution is simple. We do what we do everytime we have a bad financial crisis.
[sp]WORLD WAR THREE MOTHERFUCKERS![/sp]
Fix the European economy? Germany should leave the EU. It's too big compared with anyone else.
[QUOTE=taipan;36365515]What is all this war talk? Why he hell would anyone wage a war in europe EU or not.[/QUOTE]
Because of nazis, of course.
[QUOTE=Earthen;36365299]The culture has nothing to do with economic growth. They used to say that all Germans were lazy and useless, then said people changed their views to say that the German culture was perfect for economic growth.[/QUOTE]
Have you not heard of the Protestant Work Ethic.
It's like the Catholic Work Ethic but with more strikes BA-DUM TISH
[QUOTE=The Baconator;36356885]Isn't Germany the best off in the EU? I dunno, looking at Greece, Spain, Italy, I'd be a pissed if I was German, all these leeches destroying the EU with your own tax dollars
[/QUOTE]
Actually, I'm italian, and I'm pretty pissed off that Germany made money on our internal debt (which comes almost in its entirety from Italy's total lack of natural resources; we have to import EVERYTHING) for almost two freaking decades, and now, even when the entire world risks going guano (because if Greece goes down, Spain goes down, and if Spain goes down, Italy goes down, and if Italy goes down, Europe goes down, and if Europe goes down, then EVERYTHING goes down!) Germany still wants to speculate on less fortunate countries's debts at the expense of the entire world!
Italy, Spain are not third world countries leeching on Germany, Italy is in G8, for Christ's sake! Germany managed to become what it is now for three reasons:
A) Good politics which managed to extends a solid economy to the whole of Germany after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
B) At least some deposits of natural resources.
C) An economic system based entirely on banks and debt speculation.
Spain has been locked for decades in a "no job for young people" situation for various historical reasons, and Italy suffers from endemic fiscal evasion (we're talking about billions) and total lack of natural resources. So who's the leech? The country founding it's entire economic renaissance on other countries weak points, or the ones who have to make-do with what they got?
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