• 2011 UK Riots Thread
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[QUOTE=thisispain;31646317]very shallow perspective i must say and it's all just based on your preconceived notions. [editline]10th August 2011[/editline] yeah that's an excellent way to let people consider your position. insult them.[/QUOTE] But most of what Jallen said was right, a lot of them are chavs and anarchists who want to stick it to the authorities.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31646349]But most of what Jallen said was right, a lot of them are chavs and anarchists who want to stick it to the authorities.[/QUOTE] right, but the fact that there are chavs and anarchists means something has gone wrong.
[url]http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/jedlz/dear_america_regarding_the_london_riots/[/url] Somone on Reddit has the best breakdown of the causes I've seen typed up.
[QUOTE=thisispain;31646317]very shallow perspective i must say and it's all just based on your preconceived notions.[/QUOTE]No, this is based on facts, have a look at the news look at the people rioting then you'll see
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;31646311]when did I say it's logical? [I][B]IT IS A RIOT[/B][/I] Buckingham palace has armed guards, JD sports has a little ringing bell, if I was pissed off I know where I'd head first.[/QUOTE] You and thisispain have been implying, and even openly saying, this whole time that the riots have a cause behind them that goes down to people being mad at their government and current situations and what not. Not true, just criminals and idiots taking care of the opportunity to steal before the riots end. There is no cause. While these problems you guys have stated do exist, they're not why they're rioting. This is confirmed.
[QUOTE=thisispain;31646368]right, but the fact that there are chavs and anarchists means something has gone wrong.[/QUOTE] The main problem is they have nothing to do, their parents probably didn't give a shit about them either so they never developed a sense of respect for the people around them. I'll admit our recent government certainly hasn't helped by raising the education fees, but it's certainly not a good reason togo out and assault people and destroy their livings.
I was under the assumption Britain was much more Socialist and helping of the poor than the USA, especially since the labour reforms just after the Second World War.
[QUOTE=Drachenfels;31646379]You and thisispain have been implying, and even openly saying, this whole time that the riots have a cause behind them that goes down to people being mad at their government and current situations and what not. Not true, just criminals and idiots taking care of the opportunity to steal before the riots end. There is no cause. While these problems you guys have stated do exist, they're not why they're rioting. This is confirmed.[/QUOTE] no it isn't, they may be rioting because they want to steal, but that all fits into our countries problems as a whole. the fact that individual reclamation has become what some feel is necessary shows that something is wrong with the way our country is run
[QUOTE=thisispain;31646317]very shallow perspective i must say and it's all just based on your preconceived notions. [editline]10th August 2011[/editline] yeah that's an excellent way to let people consider your position. insult them.[/QUOTE] I'm getting the impression that you actually think these people are working together towards a common goal. Granted, some of them might be but i can guarantee that most of these people are just in it for the free shit and random destruction. You can see by the crimes that they just doing it because they think they will get away with it. What message could the destruction of random highstreet shops, local businesses and setting police stations and cars on fire spread other than "Fuck da police, we can do what we want!"
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;31646402]I was under the assumption Britain was much more Socialist and helping of the poor than the USA, especially since the labour reforms just after the Second World War.[/QUOTE] Not with Cameron in power, he just looks out for the rich.
[QUOTE=Drachenfels;31646379]You and thisispain have been implying, and even openly saying, this whole time that the riots have a cause behind them that goes down to people being mad at their government and current situations and what not. Not true, just criminals and idiots taking care of the opportunity to steal before the riots end. There is no cause. While these problems you guys have stated do exist, they're not why they're rioting. This is confirmed.[/QUOTE] While I agree that they are opportunists and are about causing chaos more than working towards any cause, I do think that the credit crunch and cuts have hit everybody, and that is bound to push people over the edge. That doesn't justify it at all, but it does help to perhaps understand why it's happened now.
[QUOTE=Drachenfels;31646379]You and thisispain have been implying, and even openly saying, this whole time that the riots have a cause behind them that goes down to people being mad at their government and current situations and what not.[/QUOTE] no i'm not saying that at all. what i'm saying is that the rioters in england are a result of something that's gone very very fucked up and it needs to be fixed. the rioting is a symptom.
[QUOTE=thisispain;31646418]no i'm not saying that at all. what i'm saying is that the rioters in england are a result of something that's gone very very fucked up and it needs to be fixed. the rioting is a symptom.[/QUOTE] Well I think everyone agrees with that.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;31646402]I was under the assumption Britain was much more Socialist and helping of the poor than the USA, especially since the labour reforms just after the Second World War.[/QUOTE] Well here in England we won't leave you to die if you have cancer and can't afford the medical bills. Medical treatment is free on the NHS for all citizens.
you guys are absolutely misunderstanding me. i'm not defending the use of violence, i'm completely against it in every way and think that the rioters should be held criminally responsible. what i am saying is that the attitude you have is one of disregard for why the riots happened and essentially just shrugging it off as "a bunch of crazy people doing crazy shit".
[QUOTE=Jallen;31646417]While I agree that they are opportunists and are about causing chaos more than working towards any cause, I do think that the credit crunch and cuts have hit everybody, and that is bound to push people over the edge. That doesn't justify it at all, but it does help to perhaps understand why it's happened now.[/QUOTE] this is what I'm trying to say. People have to deal with no job, no money, no education, a growing class divide, social status meaning that even if they were educated they couldn't get a job. It's a pressure cooker that's bound to blow eventually.
Of course there's a problem with your country when people are rioting! But people should be taking (as I've said) advantage of this riot. Riots get the governments eye on a certain area of what they control and make them wonder, "Why are they doing this? I need to know! This havoc has to stop!" And instead of a simple answer they're just destroying things. Not vocalizing opinions, not tearing down specific buildings that would give some sort of hint at what they want, NOTHING! It's an opportunity, and it's sad that London is going to waste it by doing harm to the people that aren't their enemies. [QUOTE=thisispain;31646442]you guys are absolutely misunderstanding me. i'm not defending the use of violence, i'm completely against it in every way and think that the rioters should be held criminally responsible. what i am saying is that the attitude you have is one of disregard for why the riots happened and essentially just shrugging it off as "a bunch of crazy people doing crazy shit".[/QUOTE] I agree with you for the first part and somewhat of the second. Of course, if you look at the underlying reasons as to why people are continuing the riots, you will definitely see problems that need addressing. However, (like I said in the part above your quote) these rioters aren't taking advantage of said riots they started (except for the stealing and such, if you'd call that an advantage) and showing their government what they want.
[QUOTE=Jallen;31646339]Sadly closer to the truth than one would like to think. Every reason I have heard given is a pathetic excuse. To quote Cameron (I know a lot of you dislike him, but I think he's said this very well) - "It is a complete lack of responsibility in parts of our society, people allowed to feel the world owes them something, that their rights outweigh their responsibilities and their actions do not have consequences. Well, they do have consequences."[/QUOTE] Yeah he said it very well, but apart from recalling parliament (which will solve nothing) he's been useless.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31646433]Well I think everyone agrees with that.[/QUOTE] but there is a failure on FP and probably most of the UK's part in trying to understand why it is happening. "people suck and want to break shit" isn't a good reason.
[QUOTE=jaykray;31646456]Yeah he said it very well, but apart from recalling parliament (which will solve nothing) he's been useless.[/QUOTE] I disagree on him being useless, but it would be better if we didn't turn this thread into a shitstorm about the conservatives / cameron.
[QUOTE=thisispain;31646442]you guys are absolutely misunderstanding me. i'm not defending the use of violence, i'm completely against it in every way and think that the rioters should be held criminally responsible. what i am saying is that the attitude you have is one of disregard for why the riots happened and essentially just shrugging it off as "a bunch of crazy people doing crazy shit".[/QUOTE] A lot of the rioters though had perfectly good jobs. I think it's mostly a lack of respect for the authorities, a lot of them seem to be doing this with a "fuck da police" mentality
First rioter in London court today was a 31yr SCHOOL TEACHER. Pleaded guilty to looting Richer Sounds in Croydon. Says everything about UK
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjvgZbg8sQ8&feature=feedu[/media] Just thought I'd share.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;31646410]I'm getting the impression that you actually think these people are working together towards a common goal. Granted, some of them might be but i can guarantee that most of these people are just in it for the free shit and random destruction. You can see by the crimes that they just doing it because they think they will get away with it. What message could the destruction of random highstreet shops, local businesses and setting police stations and cars on fire spread other than "Fuck da police, we can do what we want!"[/QUOTE] They are working towards a common goal... "To get new shoes innit!"
[QUOTE=thisispain;31646457]but there is a failure on FP and probably most of the UK's part in trying to understand why it is happening. "people suck and want to break shit" isn't a good reason.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter that it doesn't sound like a "good reason" it's the reason they are doing it. There is no political motive.
[QUOTE=thisispain;31646457]but there is a failure on FP and probably most of the UK's part in trying to understand why it is happening. "people suck and want to break shit" isn't a good reason.[/QUOTE] I think the main issue is a commonly held opinion by the poor in England that the rich are bastards and that the world owes them everything. So many people here hate people just for having money. I don't understand that mentality tbh, but I've seen it quite a bit.
[QUOTE=jaykray;31646487]It doesn't matter that it doesn't sound like a "good reason" it's the reason they are doing it. There is no political motive.[/QUOTE] but it's not a lot of people everywhere wanna break shit because people suck. there has to be a proper circumstance for it to actually happen you're not gonna just do it one day because you happen to feel particularly spiky. and this is exactly what i'm talking about, this shit is gonna get more people killed. [editline]10th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Jallen;31646496]I think the main issue is a commonly held opinion by the poor in England that the rich are bastards and that the world owes them everything. So many people here hate people just for having money. I don't understand that mentality tbh, but I've seen it quite a bit.[/QUOTE] because the rich are bastards. it's not the poor's fault that they are poor but it certainly can be attributed to some very very greedy people. you don't usually get rich without stepping on people's heads [editline]10th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;31646476]A lot of the rioters though had perfectly good jobs. I think it's mostly a lack of respect for the authorities, a lot of them seem to be doing this with a "fuck da police" mentality[/QUOTE] respect has to be earned, if they don't respect the authorities that means the authorities are doing something wrong. you can't reason with or change a group of rioters.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;31646132]not everyone can afford a decent quality education, if you attend an inner city comprehensive you're way less likely to get ahead, and uni is unfairly expensive now. combine that with the worst social mobility in the first world, and 3rd generation unemployed people, and you get to see how people might be frustrated and annoyed.[/QUOTE] They don't get frustrated and annoyed though, they don't care that they are uneducated. They only live for the moment and are perfectly happy existing on benefits. If they cared, they'd do something about it themselves. I come from a council estate with a shit school, surrounded by lazy scumbags. As a result my education would be considered by most to be pretty sub-standard, I doubt I'd pass many GCSEs if I took them. But I pushed myself through uni and now I'm earning enough to laugh at my student loan repayments. It seriously pisses me off when people use it as an excuse.
[QUOTE=jaykray;31646456]Yeah he said it very well, but apart from recalling parliament (which will solve nothing) he's been useless.[/QUOTE] Apart from ordering the courts to give custodial sentences to anyone part of this, authorizing the use of water cannon and rubber bullets where necessary, and nearly trebling the number of police on the streets of London?
[QUOTE=st0rmforce;31646537]They only live for the moment and are perfectly happy existing on benefits.[/QUOTE] lol no one's happy existing on benefits. your ego is clouding your memory mr. "laugh at my student loan repayments"
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