• 2011 UK Riots Thread
    3,924 replies, posted
[QUOTE=jaykray;31718005]What do you mean tell how? Cleverer is acceptable, more clever is also acceptable. This could be an England-America thing though.[/QUOTE] You didn't say "cleverer".
[QUOTE=thisispain;31717980]well i'd have no problem with saying that maybe a majority of black people rioted. but come on now. when i went off about that idiot saying "black culture" caused the rioting. when people without much of evidence declare most of the rioters were black. when people start talking about media conspiracies. i do know the political climate having lived there a while back and still talking to friends who live there and are minorities themselves. racism is very much still alive so declaring that it's simple innocent statistics isn't a good trick. come on this has happened before.[/QUOTE] I know racism is still alive, it's alive around here too, however I was pointing out that not every statement of a minority is a racist one. However, I don't believe that black culture caused this riot either, if it was motivated by anything it was greed or the anger of poor people, perhaps both, but from what I've seen the latter was a fabricated excuse to justify the former.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31718010]You didn't say "cleverer".[/QUOTE] Oops, fair enough it was a typo. I guess that is kind of ironic. By the way, I meant cleverer.
[QUOTE=icemaz;31717978]Also you posted just one picture of some white guys k thanks. And the majority of youths in suburban london are black fucking deal with it what is your problem.[/QUOTE] Uh, no actually, Whites are about ~70% of the population in London, so I highly doubt that the majority of "youths" are Black.
[QUOTE=nask;31717968]Just like you shouldn't be convinced by thisispain's picture, i am not suggesting that you did but you get the idea hopefully. One picture is nothing.[/QUOTE] note that i never wanted to claim that the majority of rioters were white. i'm just questioning on what basis you can make an assumption and to me it's coming more from the stereotype that black people are violent than actual facts.
[QUOTE=jaykray;31718029]Oops, fair enough it was a typo. I guess that is kind of ironic. By the way, I meant cleverer.[/QUOTE] Fair enough.
[QUOTE=thisispain;31718008]the majority of youths in suburban london are most likely white considering all black people in london form only 10.6 percent and white people form 69.1 percent. so i know more about london even though i don't live there anymore which is quite sad on your part innit?[/QUOTE] I thought the entire of london was bowling on 60% for the blacks but hEY lets bring in some photographs okay. [img]http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/lNDpbTKTd.qB4oIGo6OSjw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00ODU7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/251/2011/08/09/rexhackney3_090816.jpg[/img] Majority of the front line are black, i'd say about 70% [img]http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/dqq8EMMKPowgpqxT9x5x8g--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00MjE7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/251/2011/08/09/PAbrum1_102612.jpg[/img] 5 Black guys breaking into a shop. [img]http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/wLFXcSSX677G51HrK1LmQQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0zMjc7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/251/2011/08/09/PAliverpool3_090805.jpg[/img] Here i'd say about, 70% black [img]http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/m0ddj6KFgQn4s8mSrxYgfw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD01NDc7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/251/2011/08/09/rexBirmingham3_210726.jpg[/img] And here is a black and a white guy being arrested. You're still hanging onto something which isn't true man. A LOT of the suburban area's are black (aka where this happened), just go for a walk round there you'll see. [editline]14th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Megafanx13;31718046]Uh, no actually, Whites are about ~70% of the population in London, so I highly doubt that the majority of "youths" are Black.[/QUOTE] Most areas which the riots happened, in the schools white's are the minority sometimes in them. Really really they are.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;31718018]however I was pointing out that not every statement of a minority is a racist one. [/QUOTE] yes understandable. but when you have absolutely no evidence besides a couple of pictures of various people rioting and the demographics disagree with you, at what point does it become less of "most of the rioters are black people being violent" and more of "black people were rioting because they are violent". the latter does have a very strong precedent in british and american culture, it's certainly not wild to suggest it and usually the claim against that becomes "well most black people are violent" which justifies their racism even further. [editline]13th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=icemaz;31718068]I thought the entire of london was bowling on 60% for the blacks but hEY lets bring in some photographs okay.[/QUOTE] this is almost laughably pathetic.
eerr umm. If this helps any I was studying law last year and in most modern countries the majority of criminals arrested are Black. Then white, latino ect. US and UK shared similar statistics and the study was taken around 2005-2009 and put into a government issued textbook.
[QUOTE=thisispain;31718076]yes understandable. but when you have absolutely no evidence besides a couple of pictures of various people rioting and the demographics disagree with you, at what point does it become less of "most of the rioters are black people being violent" and more of "black people were rioting because they are violent". the latter does have a very strong precedent in british and american culture, it's certainly not wild to suggest it and usually the claim against that becomes "well most black people are violent" which justifies their racism even further.[/QUOTE] This is why people were getting angry with you, no one was saying it in a racist way, they were just pointing out a fact but you went off on one and saw implications that didn't exist.
[QUOTE=thisispain;31718076] this is almost laughably pathetic.[/QUOTE] Oh shit I meant 60% whites sorry, 2:30 in the morning. But in all seriousness, as someone who goes to London regularly, in the suburban areas there are a lot of black youths it is a fact. Towards center of London there are more white people. I'm not saying only blacks were involved see that PLEASE.
[QUOTE=jaykray;31717184]These "Team Poison" are exactly the type of people that would get beaten up by a majority of the rioters.[/QUOTE] They sound like Pokemon thieves.
The problem is, stating that the majority of the rioters were black is irrelevant, what is the purpose of knowing that a majority were of a certain colour? Usually, this comes from people that have some bigoted issues locked away in their heads. Stating and publicizing with media attention that most rioters were black causes stereotyping, this is something the BBC acknowledges and has been criticized a number of times over the last few years, Labour party did the same back when they were in power, its a off breed of political correctness and the idea of being biased in the media against ethnics is so we don't become more hostile to these specific races, like we have become Muslims or the Irish Catholics back in the 70's right up until the near end of the 90's.
[QUOTE=jaykray;31718114]This is why people were getting angry with you, no one was saying it in a racist way, they were just pointing out a fact but you went off on one and saw implications that didn't exist.[/QUOTE] i don't really give a damn if people were getting angry with me, because the implications are obvious. there's no saying it in a racist or non-racist way. i'll repeat, at what point does it become less of "most of the rioters are black people being violent" and more of "black people were rioting because they are violent".
[QUOTE=thisispain;31718076]yes understandable. but when you have absolutely no evidence besides a couple of pictures of various people rioting and the demographics disagree with you, at what point does it become less of "most of the rioters are black people being violent" and more of "black people were rioting because they are violent". the latter does have a very strong precedent in british and american culture, it's certainly not wild to suggest it and usually the claim against that becomes "well most black people are violent" which justifies their racism even further. [editline]13th August 2011[/editline] this is almost laughably pathetic.[/QUOTE] Depends on the demographics you look at, even if the Greater London Area only has about 10% black populace, if 90% of that black populace is in the lower class, which people say is the one conducting these riots and raids, then the demographics may not disagree with it. However, making that assumption is a little bit racist, due to it being based off a stereotype. I'm just saying, though, it depends on how you look at the demographics whether they'll agree or disagree with you.
[QUOTE=Vasili;31718122]The problem is, stating that the majority of the rioters were black is irrelevant, what is the purpose of knowing that a majority were of a certain colour? Usually, this comes from people that have some bigoted issues locked away in their heads.[/QUOTE] This is what I'm saying. You may not be prejudiced in the traditional sense, but simply have ideas in your head that Blacks may be more prone to violence or anger than other races, and use any possible evidence of "the majority of Blacks do violent act x" as confirmation of these notions in your mind. This would lead you to (really pointlessly) state "the majority of rioters are black, will you look at that".
[QUOTE=icemaz;31718116]Oh shit I meant 60% whites sorry, 2:30 in the morning. But in all seriousness, as someone who goes to London regularly, in the suburban areas there are a lot of black youths it is a fact. Towards center of London there are more white people. I'm not saying only blacks were involved see that PLEASE.[/QUOTE] yeah there are a lot of black youths sure. but in total only about 10% of people in london are black and they aren't all youths. so your narrative doesn't make any sense to me, and i've lived around brixton.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;31718146]Depends on the demographics you look at, even if the Greater London Area only has about 10% black populace, if 90% of that black populace is in the lower class, which people say is the one conducting these riots and raids, then the demographics may not disagree with it. However, making that assumption is a little bit racist, due to it being based off a stereotype. I'm just saying, though, it depends on how you look at the demographics whether they'll agree or disagree with you.[/QUOTE] Again I'll ask, what is the point of stating that the majority of rioters are Black? Generally when people post information based on statistics they don't just do it for the sake of doing it. They usually do it to make some kind of point, no matter how subtle.
[QUOTE=thisispain;31718135]i don't really give a damn if people were getting angry with me, because the implications are obvious. there's no saying it in a racist or non-racist way. i'll repeat, at what point does it become less of "most of the rioters are black people being violent" and more of "black people were rioting because they are violent".[/QUOTE] I'm not looking at it like that and many people aren't. In england pretty much everyone accepts themselves on equal with other cultures because it's what we grow up with. I don't think anyone is thinking it because "Black people are always violent", it's more of "There were a group of rioters causing havoc across the country, most of them were black" NOT IN A STEREOYPICAL way just in a, oh ok way. It's hard to make it now sound offensive in text :v:.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;31718146]However, making that assumption is a little bit racist, due to it being based off a stereotype. [/QUOTE] well yes this is exactly what i'm saying. and you can't just go "it's not racist" because i'm not gonna believe you when you make racist comments. and the difference between white poverty and black poverty is certainly not that big.
If you're reading into a statistic in that way, doesn't it say more about you than the person posting it?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31718160]This is what I'm saying. You may not be prejudiced in the traditional sense, but simply have ideas in your head that Blacks may be more prone to violence or anger than other races, and use any possible evidence of "the majority of Blacks do violent act x" as confirmation of these notions in your mind. This would lead you to (really pointlessly) state "the majority of rioters are black, will you look at that".[/QUOTE] Knowing a demographic helps the government tailor programs to that demographic to improve their way of life and happiness so they don't repeat the riots. While white people can be racist towards blacks, the reverse is also true, and that has to be thought about when creating community youth counselling programs. A black kid may see a white counsellor as an example of white oppression, trying to keep his opinion crushed, and proof that blacks never make it anywhere in life, whereas he may see a black one as a mentor figure, proof that the stereotypes are wrong, and someone to look up to because he demonstrates that blacks can make something of their life. While it may seem bad or even racist for the government to racially tailor these programs, it's pretty much the same thing they do trying to get the "ethnic vote" in an election, tailor their promises towards the ethnic demographic they want to gain the support of.
[QUOTE=icemaz;31718198]In england pretty much everyone accepts themselves on equal with other cultures because it's what we grow up with.[/QUOTE] but it's not really true. i used to have black friends and i myself was a jew and we were treated differently growing up in the 1990s. it's one of the reasons why i had to leave, it's because i couldn't take the social climate anymore. for people who don't face racism it's very easy to suggest that it doesn't exist, it's harder for people who experienced racism against them. [editline]13th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=jaykray;31718232]If you're reading into a statistic in that way, doesn't it say more about you than the person posting it?[/QUOTE] witty but no not really.
[QUOTE=thisispain;31718257]but it's not really true. i used to have black friends and i myself was a jew and we were treated differently growing up in the 1990s. it's one of the reasons why i had to leave, it's because i couldn't take the social climate anymore.[/QUOTE] Why was it one of the reasons you had to leave?
Get back on topic please. It doesn't matter if somebody thinks you're racist as long as its not true and it doesn't matter if somebody thinks you misunderstood what they were saying if you think you didn't. I doubt people on facepunch are actually trying to be racist. All it takes is one badly worded sentence to send the thread into a complete mess. hug and make up?
[QUOTE=thisispain;31718257]but it's not really true. i used to have black friends and i myself was a jew and we were treated differently growing up in the 1990s. it's one of the reasons why i had to leave, it's because i couldn't take the social climate anymore. for people who don't face racism it's very easy to suggest that it doesn't exist, it's harder for people who experienced racism against them. [editline]13th August 2011[/editline] witty but no not really.[/QUOTE] No yeah I totally get you, but from all the places I personally have lived (Down in Hampshire, Watford and now in Cambridge which has a large asian population) I kinda group in nice multicultural loving areas. I understand how from your point of view it might seem like people are bashing black people, but from everyone i've talked to about it skin colour really doesn't matter when it comes down to this. We can point out that they are black or white but that's not us being bias'd towards a colour, it's mere mentioning it.
[QUOTE=icemaz;31718294]No yeah I totally get you, but from all the places I personally have lived (Down in Hampshire, Watford and now in Cambridge which has a large asian population) I kinda group in nice multicultural loving areas. I understand how from your point of view it might seem like people are bashing black people, but from everyone i've talked to about it skin colour really doesn't matter when it comes down to this. We can point out that they are black or white but that's not us being bias'd towards a colour, it's mere mentioning it.[/QUOTE] The thing is, if you knew it wasn't a factor, why would you even bother pointing it out?
[QUOTE=jaykray;31718277]Why was it one of the reasons you had to leave?[/QUOTE] because i couldn't stand the overt racism on all sides. the earlier half of the 1990's were certainly not a pleasant place to be.
[QUOTE=thisispain;31718321]because i couldn't stand the overt racism on all sides. the earlier half of the 1990's were certainly not a pleasant place to be.[/QUOTE] Probably because it was coming out of the 80's. Isn't America a very racist place? I always hear stories about the south.
[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;31718280] hug and make up?[/QUOTE] well maybe i did jump off the handle a bit...
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