Germany is set to become the first country in Europe to introduce a third, "indeterminate" gender de
160 replies, posted
Isn't it a little obscure law? If there was a precedent of person born with characteristics of both sexes, thats nice, but otherwise, isn't it redundant?
[QUOTE=Kefirman;41863095]Isn't it a little obscure law? If there was a precedent of person born with characteristics of both sexes, thats nice, but otherwise, isn't it redundant?[/QUOTE]
presumably there was? and redundant wouldnt be the right word even if there wasnt
Let's just cut their dicks off/sew their vaginas shut at birth so they dont have gender, that solves the problem.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;41863176]Let's just cut their dicks off/sew their vaginas shut at birth so they dont have gender, that solves the problem.[/QUOTE]
everything is wrong with this post
isnt this something that people realize only later in life though?
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;41863720]isnt this something that people realize only later in life though?[/QUOTE]
you realise your sex?
actually, rereading the article, it focuses on gender in relation to hermaphrodites, so whoops. but yes, gender can be 'realized' at any point in life
being put down as 'x' instead of 'f' or 'm' on your birth certificate doesn't mean you can't go through assesments to be reassigned legally later in life, keep in mind. this just gives parents the option to avoid any harm when it comes to the gender binary
if a child has something like klienefelter syndrome, it would be a wise idea to let the child develop its own gender path later in life, rather than forcing one and possibly giving it a gender disorder later in life because of that
[QUOTE=GunFox;41862915]They are women. They do not have a Y chromosome.[/QUOTE]
so when you're born an XX person with a penis, then what?
I swear to God, if my change is born to be a god damn [I]blank[/I]...
[QUOTE=Zeemlapje;41861446]I'm slightly worried that this sets off a wrong signal to psychological instable parents who want their child's gender the other way around and start talking their child into a gender swap rather than that child choosing for it's self.[/QUOTE]
has this ever happened lol
[QUOTE=Shadaez;41863866]has this ever happened lol[/QUOTE]
in the minds of sheltered facepunch posters it happens more than it doesn't
Aren't all newborn's genders practically indeterminate though?
[QUOTE=RobbL;41863936]Aren't all newborn's genders practically indeterminate though?[/QUOTE]
parents often decide the gender of their child even before they know anything more than whether or not it has a penis
girls/boys names, bedroom decorations, clothes and what have you.
[QUOTE=GunFox;41862552]Biological sex couldn't possibly be any more binary.
Males produce spermatozoa. Females produce ova.
Infertility or failure to produce either is irrelevant. The presence or absence of a Y chromosome is then the determining factor.
Gender varies greatly, biological sex does not.[/QUOTE]
so what do we do about people with XXY chromosome pairs?
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
I like how Aphtonites literally dumbs everyone who puts TG people in a positive light in every thread about TG people.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;41864054]so what do we do about people with XXY chromosome pairs?
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
I like how Aphtonites literally dumbs everyone who puts TG people in a positive light in every thread about TG people.[/QUOTE]
avoid paying people that hide behind ratings any attention, they deserve to be ignored just as much as they ignore what you're trying to tell them
wouldnt it just be better to make people be able to change it later in life? (yeah I said almost the exact same thing last page)
because i'm sure it'd just be confusing (at a deeper, psychological level) for a kid to know that their gender is "indeterminate"
[QUOTE=GunFox;41862552]Biological sex couldn't possibly be any more binary.
Males produce spermatozoa. Females produce ova.
Infertility or failure to produce either is irrelevant. The presence or absence of a Y chromosome is then the determining factor.
Gender varies greatly, biological sex does not.[/QUOTE]
Uh no? What about XXY people? which can be born as either male or female, should those girls (who grow up pretty normally) be classified as male?
Edit:
And what do you decide those males are? Most of them are born perfectly healthy males but when puberty takes over they develop as females (and lets not even discuss the trauma of that when most of them are listed and raised as boys until then).
Having a middle ground classification doesn't hurt anyone, but it benefits a few.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;41864211]wouldnt it just be better to make people be able to change it later in life? (yeah I said almost the exact same thing last page)
because i'm sure it'd just be confusing (at a deeper, psychological level) for a kid to know that their gender is "indeterminate"[/QUOTE]
it's a hell of a lot more frustrating to know that you're known as what you aren't. being indeterminate just means you can decide (realise) what gender you are. hardly more frustrating.
[QUOTE=Rhenae;41864244]Uh no? What about XXY people? which can be born as either male or female, should those girls (who grow up pretty normally) be classified as male?[/QUOTE]
I was actually wrong in my post I was thinking of XX/XY (This can cause intersex conditions)
XXY is Klinefelters and the victims are all male.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;41864321]I was actually wrong in my post I was thinking of XX/XY (This can cause intersex conditions)
XXY is Klinefelters and the victims are all male.[/QUOTE]
XX and XY are normal genetics for female and male?
XXY occurs in both males and females but is only really a problem for males
XXX also exists (no symptoms but when having children can result in XXY conditions)
And there is XYY, male children from female XXY patients (usually, other genetic shenanigans can apply to all of them for causes)
I think it is also possible for someone with just an X to survive (would operate as a normal female) but I dont really know much about that condition. Not to mention all the other mixes possible (XXYY, XXXY, this stuff just goes on forever)
edit:
Ohh you meant mixed cells, Ive never heard of that before too bad the wiki page is so limited
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/46,_XX/XY[/url]
People are getting so flustered over this
It really just seems like a good means to protect intersex children that would have otherwise had to have been assigned a gender at birth and forced to live that way the rest of their lives. Sure that works for some people but there are so many case studies where choosing an intersex child's gender for them without allowing them to identify with one has been traumatic. There are countless chromosomal mutations (in the literal sense, not the derogative sense) that really do make it a total coin toss on the overall choice and this just seems like a good way to keep any sort of additional stress to be put on people born outside of the 2-gendered populous
Definitely recommend looking into some case studies since psychologists started recording them. Super interesting. Obviously not a problem affecting the masses but still overlooked for the individuals. And why make life harder for someone than it already needs to be?
Argentina passed a law that made gender reassignment surgery, paid for by the state, freely available. Changing legal and social gender ID without medical intervention has also become possible. ‘For example, if you want to call yourself Robert and be a man,’ explains Lohana, ‘you can, and you will be recognized as such.’
The law applies to anyone aged 18 and over. But under-18s are allowed to have their name changed and be recognized according to their own gender identity. ([url]http://newint.org/features/2013/06/0...gender-rights/[/url])
A lot of the stigma surrounding trans people is a result of the thinking that they must have a penis/vagina/whatever to identify as a particular sex. By allowing people to identify as whatever gender they like results in lower numbers deciding to have gender re-assignment surgery.
I think that tight definitions of transgender should be avoided – allowing for the possibility of new identities in future.
Wait, hermaphrodites are real?! I just thought they were a myth, like unicorns or leprechauns.
[img]http://s.mcstatic.com/thumb/1205812/6517273/4/flash_player/0/1/dr_steve_brule.jpg[/img]
[quote]Just be happy with yer vaganna. [...] And if you got a pehnis just keep on it there, don't cut it off![/quote]
[QUOTE=GunFox;41862915]They are women. They do not have a Y chromosome.[/QUOTE]
You're an idiot.
[QUOTE=cartman300;41862496][thumb]http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/05/16/087121.1-lg.jpg[/thumb]
Really?
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
Aw c'mon ninja'd by 2 minutes.[/QUOTE]
Oh hey, is that Calculon?
[QUOTE=Shadaez;41863866]has this ever happened lol[/QUOTE]
It has been done (rather unethically) as a psychological experiment.
It didn't work, the child grew up knowing their gender identity was totally wrong.
Unethical, but kind of shits all over the argument that we'll see a widespread problem with parents switching their child's genders, and also really goes to show that even children are perfectly capable of knowing their preferred gender identity
[QUOTE=latin_geek;41861846]Are there really that many hermaphrodites that they need to change all of this stuff to fit them in? I'm on tumblr and some LGBT reddits a ton and I've never seen a single case of a biological hermaphrodite.
According to wikipedia, at least, not only is the condition extremely rare, but there isn't a single case of a biological hermaphrodite with both reproductive systems functioning (and only 11 cases of fertile herms in recorded history).[/QUOTE]
A radio show called Loveline actually hosted the hermaphrodite that had both working reproductive systems. She was actually a frequent guest.
Her name was Erik Erika and when she was first on the show she identified as a man.
the most recent time she was on the show she identified as a woman. What's even better is that she's a trucker now!
She said that dick touching felt better than vag play
This is utterly stupid, birth certificates should document the medical facts of a birth, not the speculative blather of the parents about what the child will become.
Name, weight, Penis/Vagina, hair color, date etc.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;41865609]This is utterly stupid, birth certificates should document the medical facts of a birth, not the speculative blather of the parents about what the child will become.
Name, weight, Penis/Vagina, hair color, date etc.[/QUOTE]
you don't know the difference between physical sex and mental gender do ya
ignorance is dangerous
honestly not sure why gender even has to go down on birth certificates
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