• Germany is set to become the first country in Europe to introduce a third, "indeterminate" gender de
    160 replies, posted
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41865638]you don't know the difference between physical sex and mental gender do ya ignorance is dangerous honestly not sure why gender even has to go down on birth certificates[/QUOTE] The person you quoted feels the same way as you so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue with him lol
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41865484]It has been done (rather unethically) as a psychological experiment. It didn't work, the child grew up knowing their gender identity was totally wrong. Unethical, but kind of shits all over the argument that we'll see a widespread problem with parents switching their child's genders, and also really goes to show that even children are perfectly capable of knowing their preferred gender identity[/QUOTE] are you referring to when a doctor cut the dick off someone on accident so they decided to raise a girl?
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41865638] honestly not sure why gender even has to go down on birth certificates[/QUOTE] its what ive been saying in this thread why do you have to define something for someone like that
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;41865667]The person you quoted feels the same way as you so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue with him lol[/QUOTE] sounds as if he's trying to say gender can't be changed, 'medical fact' especially from where he said the speculative blather of the parents, gender isn't something to be toyed with [editline]17th August 2013[/editline] sorry, but what ever way you phrase it, this article does not describe anything about speculative blather. the parents don't decide if it's a girl or a boy, just undefined for cases where abnormal sexes come in to play, hormones effect your gender identity. [editline]17th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;41865729]its what ive been saying in this thread why do you have to define something for someone like that[/QUOTE] there really is no reason for this a lot of the time, a birth certificate should only be listing current physical traits.
eh. it's a little strange, but interesting. i don't see anything really bad coming from this, though.
[QUOTE=GunFox;41862915]They are women. They do not have a Y chromosome.[/QUOTE] Biology is a big mashy mess of DNA interactions. Not every chromosome is the same, nor their cross-effects. Your argument shares the same flaws as 'has a dick: male'; you are creating an arbitrary definition of male and female rather than defining them as a loose range of similar averaged effects of genes. This is why people say that sex is not binary; it can only be binary if it is the very same as any other. This is exactly what biology is not, and thus sex is not binary.
I know we can diagnose gender identity issues at a fairly young age but is it actually possible for us to know for a newborn baby?
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;41866084]I know we can diagnose gender identity issues at a fairly young age but is it actually possible for us to know for a newborn baby?[/QUOTE] almost impossible. gender is only expressed through mental traits, which are not visible from a baby because...they're babies. newborns aren't very intelligent yet.
I thought hermaphrodites (or whatever is the correct name for those) were considered female by default since this is what every human is before actually getting an actual defined sex when growing in the womb.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41866172]I thought hermaphrodites (or whatever is the correct name for those) were considered female by default since this is what every human is before actually getting an actual defined sex when growing in the womb.[/QUOTE] humans are defined as... humans, before the sex is known who told you that?
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41866320]humans are defined as... humans, before the gender is known who told you that?[/QUOTE] Biologically everyone starts off female and then becomes male or stays female, this is why even guys have nipples.
while that is possibly true (source? honestly i have never heard of that before), what's the point in referring to them as female when they're about to develop a definite sex very soon? just human is good.
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41866384]while that is possibly true (source? honestly i have never heard of that before), what's the point in referring to them as female when they're about to develop a definite sex very soon? just human is good.[/QUOTE] "it's a human!" doesn't make for a very good congratulatory banner
[QUOTE=Doomish;41866405]"it's a human!" doesn't make for a very good congratulatory banner[/QUOTE] when would you be saying that before you know the sex of the child? during conception i'm gonna yelp out IT's A HUMAN, CongRATULATIONS
it was a joke wow does this subforum take things too seriously or what
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41866384]while that is possibly true (source? honestly i have never heard of that before), what's the point in referring to them as female when they're about to develop a definite sex very soon? just human is good.[/QUOTE] It's true. An embryo starts development as a female, and then has a 50% chance of developing male sex organs and thus become male. Occasionally the process stops halfway and you get a hermaphrodite. If neither of these things happen then they just continue to develop as a female.
i mean, when someone is talking about how they're pregnant, they never refer to it as a girl. just 'i'm having a baby'. in scientific terms, you're probably right. but i have heard literally nobody say that. don't take what i'm saying as offense either, legitimately curious. [editline]17th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Doomish;41866459]it was a joke wow does this subforum take things too seriously or what[/QUOTE] that was a joke too you're taking me too seriously :(
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41866463] that was a joke too you're taking me too seriously :([/QUOTE] it's impossible to tell sometimes [editline]e[/editline] You could just throw them a generic birthday party instead of spending on an "it's indeterminate!" banner and balloons [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/nimKEZJ.jpg[/IMG] although the bar code might come across as insulting
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;41866460]It's true. An embryo starts development as a female, and then has a 50% chance of developing male sex organs and thus become male. Occasionally the process stops halfway and you get a hermaphrodite. If neither of these things happen then they just continue to develop as a female.[/QUOTE] that's pretty cool actually, didn't know that. i'm a little less versed in sex compared to gender topics, so no wonder. thanks for the info [editline]17th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Doomish;41866487]it's impossible to tell sometimes [editline]e[/editline] You could just throw them a generic birthday party instead of spending on an "it's indeterminate!" banner and balloons [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/nimKEZJ.jpg[/IMG] although the bar code might come across as insulting[/QUOTE] 'country of origin: backseat of the car'
yeah seriously why is gender on a birth certificate getting that taken off would be a way better step forward
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;41866589]yeah seriously why is gender on a birth certificate getting that taken off would be a way better step forward[/QUOTE] ... because gender is a pretty good, straight forward way of identifying someone and not everyone gets to change gender at some point so removing it would be more of an issue than anything.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41866597]... because gender is a pretty good, straight forward way of identifying someone and not everyone gets to change gender at some point so removing it would be more of an issue than anything.[/QUOTE] not really, should just be "had a penis/vagina/both??/neither??????? at birth"
[QUOTE=Shadaez;41866603]not really, should just be "had a penis/vagina/both??/neither??????? at birth"[/QUOTE] What exactly is the difference ? It's just semantics no one should even care about.
A lot of kids are going to grow up very confused.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41866610]What exactly is the difference ? It's just semantics no one should even care about.[/QUOTE] you can have a penis and be female
[QUOTE=Shadaez;41866617]you can have a penis and be female[/QUOTE] Yeah well when you're born and you're a tiny little baby with a brain the size of a lemon I don't think you're already making that sort of difference.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41866610]What exactly is the difference ? It's just semantics no one should even care about.[/QUOTE] Sex - biological, in the body Gender - mental, how an individual identifies Sex can be on a birth certificate that's fine Gender isn't really important for that kind of record. [editline]17th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;41866638]Yeah well when you're born and you're a tiny little baby with a brain the size of a lemon I don't think you're already making that sort of difference.[/QUOTE] exactly so why is it on a birth certificate
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41866638]Yeah well when you're born and you're a tiny little baby with a brain the size of a lemon I don't think you're already making that sort of difference.[/QUOTE] so why do we put that they're male or female if they aren't thinking about it?
Then just consider it to be the sex on the birth certificate, why does it matter. It's only M/F anyway, and it only indicated what genitals you were born with. Getting rid of gender as a way of identification is not going to happen. [editline]17th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Shadaez;41866646]so why do we put that they're male or female if they aren't thinking about it?[/QUOTE] For easy identification ?
Saying "wah semantic argument" is really fallacious and I'm tired of hearing it. Using the right words is kind of important for proper communication. If it is about sex, it should say sex. That's all there is to it.
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