Teenage Girl Shot And Killed In Texas Because Of Stand Your Ground Law - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717809]Those are national statistics over all cases of robbery in the year 2006.[/QUOTE] Which disproves what I said how?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717773] Statistically, MORE people get injured when they try to defend themselves[/QUOTE] This is unrelated to the point that the home owner has fears. A relatively lower chance of personal harm when not defending yourself isn't enough, many people will seek to take matters into their own hands for self protection. Going guns blazing is obviously a terrible idea, but acting in defense does not make someone always in the wrong.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717788]You don't know that. You know nothing except that they are present.[/QUOTE] [I]They broke into the house![/I] How else is the owner supposed to interpret it? Benevolence and good intentions?

If someone broke into my house, I'd try to shoot to wound them or scare them off or even just use the gun to get them to stay in place until the police arrive. I don't want to kill someone unless I really have to (aka they are shooting at me, or are threatening someone with deadly force) but I can understand others might choose to shoot to kill. You don't get much time to think up a complicated plan when someone is sneaking around inside your house.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36717818]at worst she was armed and she killed the people inside the house she broke into[/QUOTE] The law does not go around assuming the worst in everyone. Innocent until proven guilty.

lankist aren't you going to address the fact that he correlated your opinion in this thread with the holocaust? WHY DID YOU LET MY PEOPLE DIE!!!

[QUOTE=_jesterk;36717805]I'm sorry about your great-grandmother, but one outcome does not mean that the entire argument is flawed.[/QUOTE] You would be accusing her of murder and unjust killing had she killed the man. The man that would rape her had she not fired her weapon on an unarmed assailant. That's seriously fucked up. You would rather old women be raped than allowed to defend their property.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717803]Only because people say "the world can't always work that way."[/QUOTE] I live in a city where people are murdered for just wearing the color red or blue ever day of the week and usually it is with a lethal firearm. In a city where this happens daily, people cannot afford to just give a robber time do anything. There is NO excuse for commiting robbery and this woman was a fool. I assume you live in a safe city?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717816]oh no my feelings [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] The law cares.[/QUOTE] I understand that but we are talking about the actual person getting robbed and to them they rather risk it and defend themselves then hoping for the best.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;36717819]does it take into account the type of defense that occurs during a home invasion (you hear them, get a gun, investigate) and the other type (oh god a guy is holding a knife to my chest i should totally try to take it and kill him) i know it doesn't but hey w/e statistics can't be that specific i guess also, notice how you're still really likely to get injured during any of the cases, hence the need or want for protection[/QUOTE] Yes, in a later table. You can feel free to collate the statistics, my only concern was pointing out the irrefutable fact that people who attempted to defend themselves had a much higher likelihood of getting hurt.

[QUOTE=sdwise;36717840]You would rather old women be raped than allowed to defend their property.[/QUOTE] this is getting just silly

[QUOTE=DamagePoint;36717810]Yeah definitely, but if neither of them had guns in the first place none of this would have happened. At the worst the homeowner might have had a few hundred dollars of jewelry stolen and then they could have called it a day. But now someone is dead.[/QUOTE] if they wanted guns, they'd get them. if you're the kind of guy who can just shoot someone in the head whilst sitting down at the couch watching TV, chances are you'd probably have a gun whether it was entirely legal or not.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36717850]this is getting just silly[/QUOTE] it is the natural progression of his philosophy.

[QUOTE=PaChIrA;36717836]If someone broke into my house, I'd try to shoot to wound them or scare them off or even just use the gun to get them to stay in place until the police arrive. I don't want to kill someone unless I really have to (aka they are shooting at me, or are threatening someone with deadly force) but I can understand others might choose to shoot to kill. You don't get much time to think up a complicated plan when someone is sneaking around inside your house.[/QUOTE] What. How are you going to keep someone in one place and dial 911 at the same time. If they are armed as well, I don't think shooting at them is going to scare them off. More like give them confirmation to start firing back.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717788]You don't know that. You know nothing except that they are present.[/QUOTE] This statement is nothing short of insane. The robber is certainly putting the owner of property in a dangerous situation, in that the robber is instigating the tension.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717837]The law does not go around assuming the worst in everyone. Innocent until proven guilty.[/QUOTE] The person that I just saw break my door down and is carrying a weapon is clearly innocent. The only proper reaction is a motherfucking trial by jury to find out if he really did kick down that door.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;36717824]Which disproves what I said how?[/QUOTE] a margin between 67% and 35% is not a condition of a specific crime when it collates like 3,000,000 robberies. [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=dogmachines;36717861]The person that I just saw break my door down is clearly innocent. The only proper reaction is a motherfucking trial by jury to find out if he really did kick down that door.[/QUOTE] They aren't guilty of attempted murder just because you now lack a door.

[QUOTE=sdwise;36717856]it is the natural progression of his philosophy.[/QUOTE] if you're schizophrenic

[QUOTE=Bletotum;36717859]This statement is nothing short of insane.[/QUOTE] No it isn't. This is how the law works. This is why you run before you fight.

[QUOTE=sdwise;36717856]it is the natural progression of his philosophy.[/QUOTE] my philosophy that we shouldn't kill people

[QUOTE=_jesterk;36717857]What. How are you going to keep someone in one place and dial 911 at the same time. If they are armed as well, I don't think shooting at them is going to scare them off. More like give them confirmation to start firing back.[/QUOTE] I have feet, I can pin the person to the ground with my foot while aiming the gun at their head and pick up a phone, I don't see how this is complicated. If they start firing back then they were probably planning on killing me anyways, in which case I would shoot back. I am not just going to run up to their face and shoot all around them, I could hide behind the objects in my house and stuff. I also am not going to just shoot at someone who opens my door, I am not a lunatic. I am going to tell them to stop where they are and stick their hands up.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717881]my philosophy that we shouldn't kill people[/QUOTE] i'll just preempt sdwise here, ahem: ahah so you do want people to get raped!

[QUOTE=RichyZ;36717878]ok i fucked up there from what i'm reading, there is a really low chance of getting injured (or raped, assaulted, etc) if they attacked the offender with a weapon[/QUOTE] I hope you're collating that with the statistics on unarmed v. armed robbery. [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=PaChIrA;36717884]I have feet, I can pin the person to the ground with my foot while aiming the gun at their head and pick up a phone, I don't see how this is complicated.[/QUOTE] i think you're on my side but still, come on dude.

[QUOTE=PaChIrA;36717884]I have feet, I can pin the person to the ground with my foot while aiming the gun at their head and pick up a phone, I don't see how this is complicated. If they start firing back then they were probably planning on killing me anyways, in which case I would shoot back. I am not just going to run up to their face and shoot all around them, I could hide behind the objects in my house and stuff.[/QUOTE] Alright you can go ahead and pin an average-sized man or woman to the ground with one limb while using one hand to dial and the other to hold the gun while using your other leg for balance. That will work out perfectly.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36717871]if you're schizophrenic[/QUOTE] let's say she [i]had[/i] fired her weapon and killed the unarmed assailant. Dhe would have avoided being raped, yes? But all people in this thread would say is "she had no right to kill the man." People in this thread would rather old women be raped than defend their property. This is true because it is impossible to know the intention of an assailant. So rather than shoot their assailant with no clear understanding of their intention, old women should wait until they're already being raped to decide if it is ok to defend themselves. Correct me if i've missed anything.

[QUOTE=sdwise;36717904]let's say she [i]had[/i] fired her weapon and killed the unarmed assailant. Dhe would have avoided being raped, yes? But all people in this thread would say is "she had no right to kill the man." People in this thread would rather old women be raped than defend their property. This is true because it is impossible to know the intention of an assailant. So rather than shoot their assailant with no clear understanding of their intention, old women should wait until they're already being raped to decide if it is ok to defend themselves. Correct me if i've missed anything.[/QUOTE] what does any of this have to do with the holocaust again

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717874]No it isn't. This is how the law works. This is why you run before you fight.[/QUOTE] This does not rebut my statement. I am saying that breaking into a home tells the owner that someone may mean to harm his/herself or family. The intentions of the criminal are unknown. The situation is already dangerous, in that all participants lack understanding of eachother and are afraid of eachother. I ask you again, since you ignored me the first two times, what makes life worth preserving in a generalizing sense of every single case? What makes a person bad for protecting themselves?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717864]a margin between 67% and 35% is not a condition of a specific crime when it collates like 3,000,000 robberies. [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] They aren't guilty of attempted murder just because you now lack a door.[/QUOTE] And neither are they the fucking tooth fairy. It isn't a huge leap to assume the guy who just broke in with a gun is a threat that should be eliminated.

[QUOTE=PaChIrA;36717884]I have feet, I can pin the person to the ground with my foot while aiming the gun at their head and pick up a phone, I don't see how this is complicated. If they start firing back then they were probably planning on killing me anyways, in which case I would shoot back. I am not just going to run up to their face and shoot all around them, I could hide behind the objects in my house and stuff. I also am not going to just shoot at someone who opens my door, I am not a lunatic. I am going to tell them to stop where they are and stick their hands up.[/QUOTE] Confirmed picture of PaChIrA [img]http://thefilmfellas.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/bruce-willis-bruce-willis1.jpeg[/img] Sorry but I picture an action movie when I read that post :v:

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717909]what does any of this have to do with the holocaust again[/QUOTE] I never mentioned the holocaust.... It's about my great grandma... You've confused me with someone else.