Teenage Girl Shot And Killed In Texas Because Of Stand Your Ground Law - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717951]Gee, sorry, rambo, I don't wanna' mess with you.[/QUOTE] He isn't saying that he's trying to be rambo with that message. He is saying that he would stand up for himself in a case of danger. [QUOTE=Lankist;36717945]All they've shown is they don't care for your door. And what do you mean "further" brutalize? Nobody's been hypothetically brutalized yet. You said they broke down your door so you have full right to straight up kill them.[/QUOTE] How is this not the criminal disrespecting the law? It is breaking into private property. You are simply wrong on that. [QUOTE=Lankist;36717966]Is this a threat?[/QUOTE] That is not a threat. You are being stupid, he raised a hypothetical situation where you are being robbed by an aggressive robber. [QUOTE=Lankist;36717960]Taking a life is despicable in all forms. I'm talking specifically about Castle Doctrine being a crock, but on an ethical level you aren't vindicated in the taking of another human life [I]ever[/I]. You can rationalize it as being necessary, but that doesn't make it righteous.[/QUOTE] Why is it despicable in all forms? Your arguments are childishly generalizing, and you continue to ignore my question on what makes life so important that taking it in all cases is wrong. It is not wrong to prevent someone from wronging you.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718000]You just argued that you can scare them off without killing them. Now you're just saying to kill them no matter what. I'm sorry, but this is not self defense. Self defense implies something other than your front door is under assault.[/QUOTE] I'm saying scaring them is preferable to shooting them when they are unarmed. When they have a gun no shit if you fire you are shooting to kill. I thought I made that clear every time I said I wasn't arguing that anyone that breaks in should be shot on sight.

[QUOTE=_jesterk;36717976]Except shooting at someone who has a gun and is scared of you will not make them run. They'll do the opposite.[/QUOTE] I don't know about you, but if I got shot at I'd try to hide or not get shot. If I broke into someone's house and they shot at me, I'd surrender or run for my life. Criminals want to preserve their lives too you know.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717960]Taking a life is despicable in all forms. I'm talking specifically about Castle Doctrine being a crock, but on an ethical level you aren't vindicated in the taking of another human life [I]ever[/I]. You can rationalize it as being necessary, but that doesn't make it righteous.[/QUOTE] To present a hypothetical situation, let's say someone breaks into my home, brandishing a potentially lethal weapon. By this very action alone, this person has identified themselves as a threat and an aggressive one at that. I may not be 100% certain of their intentions, but enough evidence has been presented that I can reasonably assume they intend harm to myself and/or my family. Let's say I have a shotgun, and I loudly and clearly warn the invader to leave, otherwise I will shoot. The invader chooses not to leave and makes a move towards me, at which point I kill them in a case of blatant self-defense. Now I fully admit that this is a heavily idealized scenario designed entirely to "put me in the right," but I would DEFINITELY argue that I am both legally AND ethically in the right, even if it is essentially the lesser of two evils. I would feel absolutely horrible about taking a life and I would more than likely need therapy, but I could definitely justify it as the "right" thing to do as opposed to the alternative.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718003]You don't have the right to kill.[/QUOTE] I have the right to defend myself, and that can include killing. I hope to God I never have to kill anyone to defend myself, but I'll sure as hell do it if I have to.

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;36718015]To present a hypothetical situation[/QUOTE] please no

[QUOTE=Bletotum;36718005]Why is it despicable in all forms? Your arguments are childishly generalizing, and you continue to ignore my question on what makes life so important that taking it in all cases is wrong. It is not wrong to prevent someone from wronging you.[/QUOTE] Because it's killing. Intentionally caused death. That is a bad thing. It is wrong to kill. Don't fucking soft-sell the act of killing another human being as "preventing someone from wronging you." That isn't what it is. It's killing. [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=JeanLuc761;36718015]To present a hypothetical situation[/QUOTE] No. [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=dogmachines;36718016]I have the right to defend myself, and that can include killing. I hope to God I never have to kill anyone to defend myself, but I'll sure as hell do it if I have to.[/QUOTE] No, it doesn't. Your life is no more valuable than anyone else's. It is not your right to take a life for any reason, least of all for the sake of your own.

Lankist, are you okay with taking of lives in wars?

[QUOTE=_jesterk;36718032]Lankist, are you okay with taking of lives in wars?[/QUOTE] What, nothing??

[QUOTE=_jesterk;36718032]Lankist, are you okay with taking of lives in wars?[/QUOTE] No. I understand that they're going to happen but I'm not okay with it. I don't glorify it as "honorable" or "valorous," which all serve as rationalizations to distract from what it really is: institutional murder. There's this strange air of sexiness about war that we have in Western culture. That's it's glorious and righteous, and that destroying an enemy is something to be cheered. I don't care for it.

[QUOTE=sdwise;36718035]What, nothing??[/QUOTE] I already gave you a box. It's fun to play in. You can be a robot or a taxi driver. You can live out all your fantasies in it. Enjoy.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36717930] It's really hard to keep up with all this slander.[/QUOTE] Oh shut the fuck up and stop playing the victim. All you ever do in any of these threads is conveniently miss the good posts from the other side or you just flat out dodge what they had to say by answering their post as if they were someone else on the opposition. It's kind of funny that you are ALWAYS the first person to hurl at the other side a mutlitude of insults and then act the victim when they throw them back. [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;36716799]no, no, I'm being serious. I completely agree that I, an internet nerde, should be able to make value judgements of peoples lives and decide who lives or dies. I am not being sarcastic at all.[/QUOTE] Go away. Every argument I always see you enter you always end up calling the other side a bunch of basement dwelling nerds, yet you have been here since 2006 and have made over 4500 posts on an internet forum that is the homeplace of garry's mod. then all you do is lurk the thread waiting for an idiot from the other side to post, ignoring all the good posts, you then jump onto that one post calling him out as well as all the people on his side with your sense of superiority because you found one idiot in a mass of opinions.

[QUOTE=_jesterk;36718050]I already gave you a box. It's fun to play in. You can be a robot or a taxi driver. You can live out all your fantasies in it. Enjoy.[/QUOTE] Boxes aren't refutations or arguments, last I checked.

[QUOTE=Hobo4President;36718052]Oh shut the fuck up and stop playing the victim. All you ever do in any of these threads is conveniently miss the good posts from the other side or you just flat out dodge what they had to say by answering their post as if they were someone else on the opposition. It's kind of funny that you are ALWAYS the first person to hurl at the other side a mutlitude of insults and then act the victim when they throw them back.[/QUOTE] all of my feelings.

She got shot in the head? What happened to aiming for center mass

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718021]Because it's killing. Intentionally caused death. That is a bad thing. It is wrong to kill. Don't fucking soft-sell the act of killing another human being as "preventing someone from wronging you." That isn't what it is. It's killing. [/QUOTE] Are you kidding me? What kind of juvenile argument is that? Killing is bad "because it is wrong to kill". Wow. Did you decide at some point to throw out logical argument formation for this particular issue?

[QUOTE=Lambeth;36718081]She got shot in the head? What happened to aiming for center mass[/QUOTE] It was her friend that did it by accident. Pretty much a totally fucked up execution of a home invasion.

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;36718072]I thought we were discussing why the Castle Doctrine is good/bad/justified/not justified (depending on your views) in here...[/QUOTE] I was just curious. You're right, though. This thread needs more shit flinging.

[QUOTE=_jesterk;36718097]I was just curious. You're right, though. This thread needs more shit flinging.[/QUOTE] Post #405, when you're ready.

[QUOTE=sdwise;36718108]Post #405, when you're ready.[/QUOTE] I might need to get my big boy pants on first.

[QUOTE=_jesterk;36718117]I might need to get my big boy pants on first.[/QUOTE] Go for it. I'm set to chill.

[QUOTE=Hobo4President;36718052]Oh shut the fuck up[/QUOTE] great way to start out

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718040]There's this strange air of sexiness about war that we have in Western culture. That's it's glorious and righteous, and that destroying an enemy is something to be cheered.[/QUOTE] Well that sexiness and gloriousness is definitely seen in Hollywood. I'm pretty sure most Americans want out of Afghanistan though.

[QUOTE=Bletotum;36718082]Are you kidding me? What kind of juvenile argument is that? Killing is bad "because it is wrong to kill". Wow. Did you decide at some point to throw out logical argument formation for this particular issue?[/QUOTE] Romanticized, heroic killing isn't juvenile? Sorry I didn't realize I was the juvenile one here thinking life is not something to be taken so lightly.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718174]Romanticized, heroic killing isn't juvenile? Sorry I didn't realize I was the juvenile one here thinking life is not something to be taken so lightly.[/QUOTE] This does not answer the question. What is it that makes life something so important that any taking of it, in any case, makes the taker a bad person? I did not imply that it was to be taken lightly. As to your first sentence, that is grossly unrelated. Stop intentionally missing the point and you might learn something.

[QUOTE=Bletotum;36718193]This does not answer the question. What is it that makes life something so important that any taking of it, in any case, makes the taker a bad person? I did not imply that it was to be taken lightly. As to your first sentence, that is grossly unrelated. Stop intentionally missing the point and you might learn something.[/QUOTE] You want to know what makes life important? Because out of all of the quadrillions of possible combinations that could have arisen from genetic mixing, fetal development and birth, we're the ones who came out. And when we die, we're gone. No fucking afterlife bullshit, no divinity or nirvana. We're just dead. We are the product of four billion years of evolutionary success, and we are the only things in the known universe even capable of appreciating both life as the tremendous opportunity that it is and death as the immense loss that it will inevitably be. So no, I don't think you're justified in expediting the process. I don't think you're a good person for even hypothetically doing so, either. Death is a tremendous loss in every instance, and for you or anyone else to deal death in any circumstance is a crime against what it is to be a thinking human being. I'd prefer that life didn't end, but that's unlikely to happen anytime soon. In the meantime, you don't get the right to take it into your own fucking hands. Rationalize it however you want. When you end another human being, you take everything they are from this world. Not just all the horrible things they could have done, but all the magnificent things too. Who the fuck is to say my killer wouldn't end up doing greater things than I'd ever do? You want to talk about probabilities and what MIGHT happen, you've got a lot of possibilities to contend with. I'd rather let the chips fall than take it upon myself to play fucking hero and steal something precious and rare from this world for the sake of my own wellbeing. That might just be me. That doesn't mean I'm wrong. Call me a pussy if it makes you feel better. I'm still the one who gives a shit. The fact that I even need to explain to you why human life is important only makes you a god damned sociopath.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN1YxjhxTCk[/media] I'm sorry.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718250]You want to know what makes life important? Because out of all of the quadrillions of possible combinations that could have arisen from genetic mixing, fetal development and birth, we're the ones who came out. And when we die, we're gone. No fucking afterlife bullshit, no divinity or nirvana. We're just dead. We are the product of four billion years of evolutionary success, and we are the only things in the known universe even capable of appreciating both life as the tremendous opportunity that it is and death as the immense loss that it will inevitably be. So no, I don't think you're justified in expediting the process. I don't think you're a good person for even hypothetically doing so, either. Death is a tremendous loss in every instance, and for you or anyone else to deal death in any circumstance is a crime against what it is to be a thinking human being. I'd prefer that life didn't end, but that's unlikely to happen anytime soon. In the meantime, you don't get the right to take it into your own fucking hands. Rationalize it however you want. When you end another human being, you take everything they are from this world. Not just all the horrible things they could have done, but all the magnificent things too. I'd rather let the chips fall than take it upon myself to play fucking hero and steal something precious and rare from this world for the sake of my own wellbeing. That might just be me. That doesn't mean I'm wrong. Call me a pussy if it makes you feel better. I'm still the one who gives a shit. The fact that I even need to explain to you why human life is important only makes you a god damned sociopath.[/QUOTE] Thats nice N' artsy and all that. But at what point did you answer the question of, "What is it that makes life something so important that any taking of it, in any case, makes the taker a bad person?". Unless you're trying to imply that any person who takes any life is a bad person.

I didn't know that if we artistically defended the life of a burglar it suddenly became okay to just sit there and take whatever life throws at you because "hey man, I don't care if everything I have is lost, my family is dead, and I'm all alone, as long as I didn't hurt that poor rapist/murder/sociopath, I did the right thing." Just because killing someone is wrong, doesn't mean it isn't justified in the case of protecting other lives when there is no other reasonable choice and you happen to kill a person accidentally. If my wife and kids are about to be murdered, and waking them up would only alert the guy to my presence, I'll aim for a leg and try to not kill him, but I sure as hell am not going to try and run away and risk all of our lives in the process. If he dies in the process, he chose to put his life on the line, knowing full well the risk involved.

Someone breaks into my home, especially with that many people I would do the same thing. That girl wasn't killed by any laws but the ones she was breaking and hey own choices. Of all fucking states, you had to rob someone in texas, where their neighbor can legally kill you for robbing. Good for the homeowner, he did nothing wrong.