Teenage Girl Shot And Killed In Texas Because Of Stand Your Ground Law - Polidicks

[QUOTE=_jesterk;36718303]Everyone does die eventually, though.[/QUOTE] The longer you can hold it off, the better. If you're going to delve into nihilism and a lack of divine purpose, you might as well jump off a cliff and call it quits. I don't subscribe to either philosophy.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718250]You want to know what makes life important? Because out of all of the quadrillions of possible combinations that could have arisen from genetic mixing, fetal development and birth, we're the ones who came out. And when we die, we're gone. No fucking afterlife bullshit, no divinity or nirvana. We're just dead. We are the product of four billion years of evolutionary success, and we are the only things in the known universe even capable of appreciating both life as the tremendous opportunity that it is and death as the immense loss that it will inevitably be. So no, I don't think you're justified in expediting the process. I don't think you're a good person for even hypothetically doing so, either. Death is a tremendous loss in every instance, and for you or anyone else to deal death in any circumstance is a crime against what it is to be a thinking human being. I'd prefer that life didn't end, but that's unlikely to happen anytime soon. In the meantime, you don't get the right to take it into your own fucking hands. Rationalize it however you want. When you end another human being, you take everything they are from this world. Not just all the horrible things they could have done, but all the magnificent things too. [B]Who the fuck is to say my killer wouldn't end up doing greater things than I'd ever do?[/B] You want to talk about probabilities and what MIGHT happen, you've got a lot of possibilities to contend with. I'd rather let the chips fall than take it upon myself to play fucking hero and steal something precious and rare from this world for the sake of my own wellbeing. That might just be me. That doesn't mean I'm wrong. [B]Call me a pussy if it makes you feel better. I'm still the one who gives a shit.[/B] The fact that I even need to explain to you why human life is important only makes you a [B]god damned sociopath[/B].[/QUOTE] Yes. I am a sociopath for hypothetically defending myself in order to not die. You are clearly superior. I was obviously going to call you a pussy. This does not answer what makes taking life a bad thing in EVERY circumstance. Because it is rare? Plenty is rare. Sentience is indeed special, but not so much so that it becomes inherently wrong to substitute your life for another's. Especially not when that other's is clearly a terrible person who means innocent people harm. Something is wrong with you if you think that your attacker is likely to be a more positive force for the world.

[QUOTE=Laferio;36718311]Unless you're trying to imply that any person who takes any life is a bad person.[/QUOTE] That is exactly what I'm implying. I'm not even implying it. I'm saying it directly: Anyone who takes a life is a bad person.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718330]That is exactly what I'm implying. I'm not even implying it. I'm saying it directly: Anyone who takes a life is a bad person.[/QUOTE] What a blind way to look at life. Do you ever consider anything other than the effects, or is that irrelevant? Honestly, if you label anything as fully "good" or "bad" then your have piss-poor philosophies.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718330]That is exactly what I'm implying. I'm not even implying it. I'm saying it directly: Anyone who takes a life is a bad person.[/QUOTE] How. What. No words. None.

[QUOTE=Bletotum;36718327]This does not answer what makes taking life a bad thing in EVERY circumstance. Because it is rare? Plenty is rare. Sentience is indeed special, but not so much so that it becomes inherently wrong to substitute your life for another's. Especially not when that other's is clearly a terrible person who means innocent people harm.[/QUOTE] You can rationalize it all you want. Killing is killing. Ending a human life is just that, no matter how much you try to avoid admitting what it is. I didn't say it can't happen. I said it makes you a bad person. Bad people have a way of surviving. But don't think you're righteous just because you still exist. [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Loriborn;36718342]What a blind way to look at life. Do you ever consider anything other than the effects, or is that irrelevant? Honestly, if you label anything as fully "good" or "bad" then your have piss-poor philosophies.[/QUOTE] I'm not the one here who has been avoiding using the word "kill," instead saying things like "self defense" and "preventing harm." I'm not the one here with cognitive dissonance issues. [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Laferio;36718345]How. What. No words. None.[/QUOTE] Feel free to leave, then.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718347]You can rationalize it all you want. Killing is killing. Ending a human life is just that, no matter how much you try to avoid admitting what it is. I didn't say it can't happen. I said it makes you a bad person. Bad people have a way of surviving.[/QUOTE] I seriously can't tell if you're trying to be sarcastic.

[QUOTE=Laferio;36718363]I seriously can't tell if you're trying to be sarcastic.[/QUOTE] I'm not. What would you call killing? There's nothing ambiguous about it. This is called "cognitive dissonance" You want to say you're okay with killing another human being, but you also want to say you aren't a bad person, so you come up with all this ancillary bullshit trying to explain how you're both capable of ending a life and a good person at the same time.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718373]I'm not. What would you call killing? There's nothing ambiguous about it.[/QUOTE] Killing is killing- HOWEVER. You make it sound like Killing=Murder.

Does that mean if you are hunting with friends and the friend runs out in front of you to get something and you fire, and he dies in the hospital even after you rushed him there, gave him aid, were there for him every moment of his life, are you a bad person?

[QUOTE=Laferio;36718392]Killing is killing- HOWEVER. You make it sound like Killing=Murder.[/QUOTE] Murder is intentional homicide. To kill intentionally in self-defense is, by definition, murder. Presumably second degree. I've been avoiding the word because I don't want to impart its subtext.

Ending any sort of life is killing. That's what killing means. If you want to add emotional impact you can say murder instead.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718330]That is exactly what I'm implying. I'm not even implying it. I'm saying it directly: Anyone who takes a life is a bad person.[/QUOTE] So, killing one person to stop them from killing others would make you a bad person? Saving lives wouldn't balance this out in the slightest?

[QUOTE=iFail;36718401]So, killing one person to stop them from killing others would make you a bad person? Saving lives wouldn't balance this out in the slightest?[/QUOTE] I never said it wouldn't balance out. I said it makes you a bad person. If you think the ends justify the means, that's good for you. It's still killing. Good people don't kill.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718330]That is exactly what I'm implying. I'm not even implying it. I'm saying it directly: Anyone who takes a life is a bad person.[/QUOTE] Dude, you know life is in color, right?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718414]I never said it wouldn't balance out. I said it makes you a bad person. If you think the ends justify the means, that's good for you. It's still killing. Good people don't kill.[/QUOTE] You're right, good people sit in their house as it's robbed, say please and thank you as the thug rapes his daughter and wife, and makes the cannibal murderer that ate his son a nice dipping sauce. No one on earth is a "good person" and it's foolish to try to fit a perfect vision of one.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718330]That is exactly what I'm implying. I'm not even implying it. I'm saying it directly: Anyone who takes a life is a bad person.[/QUOTE] You have proven entirely incapable of explaining why this is the case. [QUOTE=Lankist;36718347]You can rationalize it all you want. Killing is killing. Ending a human life is just that, [B]no matter how much you try to avoid admitting what it is.[/B] I didn't say it can't happen. [B]I said it makes you a bad person.[/B] Bad people have a way of surviving. [B]But don't think you're righteous just because you still exist.[/B] [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] I'm not the one here who has been [B]avoiding using the word "kill,"[/B] instead saying things like "self defense" and "preventing harm." [B]I'm not the one here with cognitive dissonance issues.[/B] [/QUOTE] I have no problem with saying that killing in self defense is still killing. You are looking for a reason to be superior. Explain why taking a life is inherently bad, or do not suggest it. You also implied that killing could not be preventing harm. Why do you intend to not properly answer anyone? Obviously we are making excuses! Yes, that must be it.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718414]I never said it wouldn't balance out. I said it makes you a bad person. If you think the ends justify the means, that's good for you. It's still killing. Good people don't kill.[/QUOTE] I like how if you kill once, bad person. Even if you are one of the heads of ASPCA or something, you're a bad person if you kill. And before you jump me for saying this, you're making a blanket statement, everyone is applicable.

[QUOTE=Bletotum;36718430]You have proven entirely incapable of explaining why this is the case.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Lankist;36718250]You want to know what makes life important? Because out of all of the quadrillions of possible combinations that could have arisen from genetic mixing, fetal development and birth, we're the ones who came out. And when we die, we're gone. No fucking afterlife bullshit, no divinity or nirvana. We're just dead. We are the product of four billion years of evolutionary success, and we are the only things in the known universe even capable of appreciating both life as the tremendous opportunity that it is and death as the immense loss that it will inevitably be. So no, I don't think you're justified in expediting the process. I don't think you're a good person for even hypothetically doing so, either. Death is a tremendous loss in every instance, and for you or anyone else to deal death in any circumstance is a crime against what it is to be a thinking human being. I'd prefer that life didn't end, but that's unlikely to happen anytime soon. In the meantime, you don't get the right to take it into your own fucking hands. Rationalize it however you want. When you end another human being, you take everything they are from this world. Not just all the horrible things they could have done, but all the magnificent things too. Who the fuck is to say my killer wouldn't end up doing greater things than I'd ever do? You want to talk about probabilities and what MIGHT happen, you've got a lot of possibilities to contend with. I'd rather let the chips fall than take it upon myself to play fucking hero and steal something precious and rare from this world for the sake of my own wellbeing. That might just be me. That doesn't mean I'm wrong. Call me a pussy if it makes you feel better. I'm still the one who gives a shit. The fact that I even need to explain to you why human life is important only makes you a god damned sociopath.[/QUOTE] I gave you an explanation, you just didn't like it.

[QUOTE=Bletotum;36718430]You have proven entirely incapable of explaining why this is the case. I have no problem with saying that killing in self defense is still killing. You are looking for a reason to be superior. Explain why taking a life is inherently bad, or do not suggest it. You also implied that killing could not be preventing harm. Why do you intend to not properly answer anyone? Obviously we are making excuses! Yes, that must be it.[/QUOTE] He said killing is bad because life is precious because, insert some poetic garbage about starstuff and evolution and something that is not logically defending himself, rather emotionally, basing nothing in fact, and everything in the whole "everyone is unique and able to do wonderous things" spheel.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718414]I never said it wouldn't balance out. I said it makes you a bad person. If you think the ends justify the means, that's good for you. It's still killing. Good people don't kill.[/QUOTE] The thing is, I don't understand your statement that "good people don't kill". This is pretty much the underlying premise behind your argument, but I can see lots of ways a good person would be able to kill someone else. I guess it really just comes down to your definition of a "good person", but personally, I can't agree with your definition.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36718443]He said killing is bad because life is precious because, insert some poetic garbage about starstuff and evolution and something.[/QUOTE] Basically everything, that in another thread he stated didn't matter because we're all fucked.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718441]I gave you an explanation, you just didn't like it.[/QUOTE] I gave you a rebuttal, which you did not respond to, other than to say "Killing is bad because it is killing that is why killing is bad!".

[QUOTE=Swilly;36718435]I like how if you kill once, bad person. Even if you are one of the heads of ASPCA or something, you're a bad person if you kill. And before you jump me for saying this, you're making a blanket statement, everyone is applicable.[/QUOTE] So if a murderer is a member of the ASPCA, they aren't as bad a person?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718455]So if a murderer is a member of the ASPCA, they aren't as bad a person?[/QUOTE] If someone who defended themselves is in the ASPCA are they a bad person? This is why we have laws for intent, not "OH you killed a person, life sentence." You are making a blanket statement that no matter the intent, someone is bad.

[QUOTE=Bletotum;36718454]I gave you a rebuttal, which you did not respond to, other than to say "Killing is bad because it is killing that is why killing is bad!".[/QUOTE] Your rebuttal was a blanket denial. i.e. not a rebuttal. You didn't read what I said, you just dismissed it off-hand. Either you're a sociopath who only values the human lives that are convenient for you to value, or you realize you're not winning the high ground here and you're looking for any excuse to keep repeating yourself. [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Swilly;36718463]If someone who defended themselves is in the ASPCA are they a bad person? This is why we have laws for intent, not "OH you killed a person, life sentence."[/QUOTE] Law doesn't dictate ethics. Bletotum asked me a philosophical question, I gave him a philosophical answer. He's the one who engaged this red herring. If you'd like to return to the part where I quoted statistics which indicate people who defend themselves in robberies are MORE likely to be injured, feel free.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718373]I'm not. What would you call killing? There's nothing ambiguous about it. This is called "cognitive dissonance" You want to say you're okay with killing another human being, but you also want to say you aren't a bad person, so you come up with all this ancillary bullshit trying to explain how you're both capable of ending a life and a good person at the same time.[/QUOTE] Killing [i]is[/i] killing, and I agree that it's never a good thing. But sometimes it's better than the alternative. And no, it doesn't make you a good person. Life is full of though choices, though.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718464] Law doesn't dictate ethics. Bletotum asked me a philosophical question, I gave him a philosophical answer.[/QUOTE] Ethics dictates law, and ethic dictates that circumstances are important to the reasoning behind a crime.

[QUOTE=Swilly;36718478]Ethics dictates law[/QUOTE] Oooooh no they don't. Ethics are subjective. Law is objective. I am prepared to argue about this.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36718464]Your rebuttal was a blanket denial. i.e. not a rebuttal. You didn't read what I said, you just dismissed it off-hand. Either you're a sociopath who only values the human lives that are convenient for you to value, or you realize you're not winning the high ground here and you're looking for any excuse to keep repeating yourself.[/QUOTE] Um, you're the one repeating themselves. Still haven't given us a logical reason why killing a human is bad under every circumstance just because you said some poetic shit about how we are the product of evolution or something. How does anything like that mean human life is somehow so important that defending another is wrong? You seem to live in a fantasy Utopian world. Time to wake up and realize the world isn't in black and white and people actually kill other people regardless of your view of "good people" so we have to be prepared to defend ourselves against those people.