Teenage Girl Shot And Killed In Texas Because Of Stand Your Ground Law

[Funcoot]

[QUOTE=WhatAmI;36737336]I don't have to justify my reasons for an opinion

[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]

ninja'd
motherfucker[/QUOTE]
If you can't support your opinion though, it doesn't hold much weight. My opinion could be that Obama is a Muslim, but that doesn't make it true or valid. (Probably because it is well known that he isn't.)

[WhatAmI]

Seriously, I don't give a fuck

Really, arguing about gun laws is literally one of the lowest priorities I have

[Joey Skylynx]

[QUOTE=WhatAmI;36737377]Okay I'll deal with it[/QUOTE]
Do you defend your opinion...?

[QUOTE=WhatAmI;36737386]Seriously, I don't give a fuck

Really, arguing about gun laws is literally one of the lowest priorities I have[/QUOTE]
Why make a choice in an arguement if you have no knowledge of the arguement...?

[James*]

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;36737357]firearms should be banned or severely restricted from civilian usage[/QUOTE]

Good point well made

[WhatAmI]

Nah, even I think that's stupid
Dude, even I want to own a .45 one day
Not everyone with a gun is a suicidal maniac

[James*]

[QUOTE=WhatAmI;36737467]Not everyone with a gun is a suicidal maniac[/QUOTE]

I never used to think so but this thread makes me think otherwise

[Funcoot]

[QUOTE=WhatAmI;36737386]Seriously, I don't give a fuck

Really, arguing about gun laws is literally one of the lowest priorities I have[/QUOTE]
If it is the lowest priority you have, why did you take the time to post here in the first place?

Furthermore, why did you take the time to tell us you don't have the time to tell us?

[trotskygrad]

[QUOTE=James*;36737437]Good point well made[/QUOTE]

best troll in this thread

[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;36737358]Okay, well deal with my opinion.

I think that any form of firearm that cannot cause severe explosive damage (I.E, no Raufoss or HE type amunition) should be available to the public, be it semi-automatic, single shot, bolt action or fully automatic, regardless of barrel-size or country of origin.[/QUOTE]

so you'd be ok with people owning 125mm Spruts with DU ammo?

lawl

[WhatAmI]

[QUOTE=Funcoot;36737493]If it is the lowest priority you have, why did you take the time to post here in the first place?

Furthermore, why did you take the time to tell us you don't have the time to tell us?[/QUOTE]

Because I have the time

[Funcoot]

[QUOTE=WhatAmI;36737525]Because I have the time[/QUOTE]

I don't even :suicide:

[SgtCr4zyGunz]

[QUOTE=Funcoot;36737246]It sounds like you have never been in a dwelling when it was being burglarized. You have no clue who those people kicking down your door are, you have no idea what their intentions are, all you know is that they pose a threat to you and your family's well being, if they didn't, they would have kindly knocked. You forfeit your personal safety when you burglarize an occupied dwelling. You can only assume a group of people kicking down your door in the middle of the night are a threat to your life.[/QUOTE]

well i am sorry but you are wrong and the law doesn't let you make these assumptions for a reason.

if a burglar busts through the door and you light him up right away you're gonna go to prison, esp. if he was unarmed.

[Funcoot]

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;36737558]well i am sorry but you are wrong.

if a burglar busts through the door and you light him up right away you're gonna go to prison, esp. if he was unarmed.[/QUOTE]

Nope, I live in Florida.

[WhatAmI]

[QUOTE=Funcoot;36737540]I don't even :suicide:[/QUOTE]

but I just

[SgtCr4zyGunz]

[QUOTE=Funcoot;36737569]Nope, I live in Florida.[/QUOTE]

i know you live a conservative shithole but even they don't let you shoot anyone that walks in the door.

please read a few pages back in the thread we have gone over this many times.

[Funcoot]

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;36737616]i know you live a conservative shithole but even they don't let you shoot anyone that walks in the door.

please read a few pages back in the thread we have gone over this many times.[/QUOTE]

Florida is a swing state, far from a conservative shit hole.

[SgtCr4zyGunz]

[QUOTE=Funcoot;36737630]Florida is a swing state, far from a conservative shit hole.[/QUOTE]

both the governor and the lieutenant governor are republicans, one of the senators is a republican, and 19 of 24 house representatives are republicans.

[WhatAmI]

From what I've seen, /k/ hates florida
But then again everyone there has their own armoury v:v:v

[Funcoot]

[QUOTE=WhatAmI;36737671]From what I've seen, /k/ hates florida
But then again everyone there has their own armoury v:v:v[/QUOTE]

Far from the truth. Most people I know here do not own guns, and I live in the Panhandle.

[WhatAmI]

I see, I guess you would know far better than I do

[Funcoot]

Also, please link to me where the evidence you have Sgt. All I saw a few pages back was a link to one case where the defendant was convicted.

At the end of the day, it is up to the jury to determine if you were justified or not in your defense. The fact is, most juries as of now would find this justified.

[URL]http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases[/URL]

Twice as many cases are found to be justified. The thing you forget, is that people who often commit murder, try to hide behind the stand your ground law.

In this particular case, the defendants could not have even retreated to avoid conflict. In the middle of the night, when a group of people break into your house, there is no where else to go. You would quickly be overwhelmed. Most of the time, if you are able to retreat as the defendant, you lose your case.

[ZF911]

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;36737558]well i am sorry but you are wrong and the law doesn't let you make these assumptions for a reason.

if a burglar busts through the door and you light him up right away you're gonna go to prison, esp. if he was unarmed.[/QUOTE]
Not in Texas.
If someone broke into my house in the middle of the night I'd be terrified. I would definitely think my life is in danger.

[Funcoot]

[QUOTE=ZF911;36737857]Not in Texas.
If someone broke into my house in the middle of the night I'd be terrified. I would definitely think my life is in danger.[/QUOTE]
You're delusional. A group of 6 people breaking into your house in the middle of the night have no ill intentions. :downs:

[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]

[QUOTE=WhatAmI;36737698]I see, I guess you would know far better than I do[/QUOTE]

You honestly just have a variety of people owning guns more so than most of the population owning guns. The populations of gun owners is higher, but it is over exaggerated. You just wouldn't be too surprised about 50 year old Mrs. Smith carrying a handgun in her purse. You don't expect everyone to have guns, but you're not surprised when someone does.

[SgtCr4zyGunz]

[QUOTE=Funcoot;36737718]Also, please link to me where the evidence you have Sgt. All I saw a few pages back was a link to one case where the defendant was convicted.

At the end of the day, it is up to the jury to determine if you were justified or not in your defense. The fact is, most juries as of now would find this justified.

[URL]http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases[/URL]

Twice as many cases are found to be justified. The thing you forget, is that people who often commit murder, try to hide behind the stand your ground law.

In this particular case, the defendants could not have even retreated to avoid conflict. In the middle of the night, when a group of people break into your house, there is no where else to go. You would quickly be overwhelmed. Most of the time, if you are able to retreat as the defendant, you lose your case.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Lankist;36719346]Since _jesterk seems to have pimped away, the two criteria for self defense are:

(1) a reasonable belief that the use of force was necessary to defend himself or another against the immediate use of unlawful force and
(2) the use of no more force than was reasonably necessary in the circumstances.

Both of these must be proven in court for a charge of murder or manslaughter to be mitigated as self defense.

Note #1. "against IMMEDIATE use of unlawful force." The fact that someone is in your house doesn't qualify. It must be demonstrable that you had legitimate reason to think they were going to harm you beyond your own paranoia.

On #2, this is the most important in terms of lethal force. If someone is running at you unarmed, you aren't justified in shooting them eight times in the face. Similarly, if they flee the scene, you CANNOT shoot them. If they are incapacitated, you cannot kill them. Your goal should never be to kill them, for that matter, merely to stop them. All of these people saying they would kill? Yeah. Those people would be violating provision #2 and they would be going to prison for intent to kill and not to stop.[/QUOTE]

please read this post this is the federal criteria for self-defense.

if you have your back to the wall and have no other option by all means defend yourself, but you need to be damn sure you have no choice.

[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]

[QUOTE=ZF911;36737857]Not in Texas.
If someone broke into my house in the middle of the night I'd be terrified. I would definitely think my life is in danger.[/QUOTE]

why do you keep saying "not in <x state>" when we've already established that is completely irrelevant? federal law trumps state law. and just because you think you are in danger does not mean you are. if you seriously are terrified then why would you grab a gun and go pick a fight with this unknown threat?

[Lankist]

[QUOTE=Broseph_;36735980]Tell that to felons.

Also half the shit you spew in this thread goes against Rulings the Supreme Court have made.

[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]

And yes Lankist I will fucking cite the cases that go against your posts, but unlike you I don't have all fucking day to waste on this thread since I only have 8 hours to get some sleep before i have to go back into work for a 12 hour shift.[/QUOTE]

Uhh fundamental rights can be restricted, but only by extremely narrow and focused means which accomplish the intent and nothing else.

And please cite them.

[SgtCr4zyGunz]

[QUOTE=Funcoot;36737917]You're delusional. A group of 6 people breaking into your house in the middle of the night have no ill intentions. :downs:

[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]

You honestly just have a variety of people owning guns more so than most of the population owning guns. The populations of gun owners is higher, but it is over exaggerated. You just wouldn't be too surprised about 50 year old Mrs. Smith carrying a handgun in her purse. You don't expect everyone to have guns, but you're not surprised when someone does.[/QUOTE]

the only intentions clear from someone breaking in is that they mean to break in, which is not an imminent danger to your life. unless you're a really unpopular guy nobody's going to break in specifically to kill you.

[Lankist]

[QUOTE=Funcoot;36737917]You're delusional. A group of 6 people breaking into your house in the middle of the night have no ill intentions. :downs:[/QUOTE]

Your assumptions are not enough to legally justify lethal force.

The danger has to be immediate, not hypothetical. You cannot say "they're probably here to hurt me!" and figure that's enough. It has to be "they are about to hurt me right now right now!"

[ZF911]

In state courts, state laws are upheld. The federal laws for self defense are used in supreme court cases and in states that don't have their own separate castle doctrine/stand your ground law.

[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]

So yes, in Texas I can shoot you for breaking into my car/house/place of business.

[Zillamaster55]

[QUOTE=Lankist;36738347]Your assumptions are not enough to legally justify lethal force.

The danger has to be immediate, not hypothetical. You cannot say "they're probably here to hurt me!" and figure that's enough. It has to be "they are about to hurt me right now right now!"[/QUOTE]

So what was the man supposed to do? Wait until they decided to hurt him?

[Funcoot]

[quote](1) a reasonable belief that the use of force was necessary to defend himself or another against the immediate use of unlawful force and
(2) the use of no more force than was reasonably necessary in the circumstances.[/quote]

It is up to the court if your case fits the criteria. Time and time again, courts usually side with the defendant on home invasions. Your life is in danger when someone invades your home. End of story. It is not an assumption. By your logic, a person with a gun is not a threat, you're just assuming he will use it. Anyone who invades your home is perceived as a threat, that is the general consensus. The courts have proved it time and time again. You will find far more cases where the stand your ground laws have been upheld in home invasion/burglary cases rather than shot down.

All you are doing is pointing to one of a very few cases and trying to warp it to bolster your view point, which is generally disagreed with. Most courts agree that your life is in danger and you have the right to defend it during a home invasion.

[Lankist]

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;36738427]So what was the man supposed to do? Wait until they decided to hurt him?[/QUOTE]

Yes.

[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]

[QUOTE=ZF911;36738394]In state courts, state laws are upheld. The federal laws for self defense are used in supreme court cases and in states that don't have their own separate castle doctrine/stand your ground law.

[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]

So yes, in Texas I can shoot you for breaking into my car/house/place of business.[/QUOTE]

Hahaha uhhhhhhh no.

[url]http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Supremacy+Clause[/url]

Federal law overrules state law on all levels and in all cases.