Marxist vegan restaurant closes: No set business hours, long waits, and odd decor
48 replies, posted
I don't know, I think the Soviet Union was rotten to the core anyway. All countries (not areas necessarily, as the one you've posted proves) that have gone communist have also had authoritarian and controlling governments. Lenin's Soviet Union was like this too and was already fairly brutal before Stalin.
I just see communism as a failed ideology.
Ah, yes, one restaurant run by (probably) tankies goes under, and that's a refutation of the entire idea of workplace democracy/worker self-management?
Let's break the circlejerk by [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bcNfbGxAdY"]looking at a cooperative in the real world[/URL], where wages are reasonably equitable and workers have some say in the conditions of their labor. It's by no means perfect, but it's far better for people than traditional top-down corporations.
Coops also can be organized in very different ways. They can even technically have leadership (and I think they usually do,) it just depends on the terms of the leadership.
I'm actually pretty convinced that violent forceful revolutions like the USSR won't really work (at least in the present world) if you want socialism. Coop growth to me just seem like the more plausible way to get there for the first world at least. When people get more comfortable and desiring of democracy then you can get change.
It seems they missed that co-operation only works if you include the 'operation' part. If you all decide to fuck off and not work of course you're going to fail.
[QUOTE=daschnek;51510144]Ah, yes, one restaurant run by (probably) tankies goes under, and that's a refutation of the entire idea of workplace democracy/worker self-management?
Let's break the circlejerk by [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bcNfbGxAdY"]looking at a cooperative in the real world[/URL], where wages are reasonably equitable and workers have some say in the conditions of their labor. It's by no means perfect, but it's far better for people than traditional top-down corporations.[/QUOTE]
what circlejerk are you talking about? the majority of posts in this thread are saying that the concept of a co-operative/Marxist business can work well, this one was just poorly done. i don't see much at all in the way of "lol proof that communism can't work"
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51510340]what circlejerk are you talking about? the majority of posts in this thread are saying that the concept of a co-operative/Marxist business can work well, this one was just poorly done. i don't see much at all in the way of "lol proof that communism can't work"[/QUOTE]
He's talking about Tudd and republicans in general.
[editline]11th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tudd;51510074]See to me this ultimately comes off as more Socialist, which ofcourse can work if there is some kind of organization to combat mob rule.
This restaurant on the other hand tried to go full retard from what I can tell.[/QUOTE]
If you make things extremely strict on the definition you can say anything's a failure, depending on it's definition.
Republicans are against gun control regulations for that reason.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51510350]He's talking about Tudd and republicans in general.[/QUOTE]
but Tudd isn't even being especially antagonistic to the idea and is even, at the least, putting up a facade of interest. there's like, 1 or 2 posts that could be construed as this failure being proof against communism in a whole. coming into a place and saying something most of the people there agree with, parading it as breaking a nonexistent circlejerk, is pretty circlejerky.
i don't even disagree, i fully believe that worker-run businesses and co-operatives can work quite well.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51510089]I don't know, I think the Soviet Union was rotten to the core anyway. All countries (not areas necessarily, as the one you've posted proves) that have gone communist have also had authoritarian and controlling governments. Lenin's Soviet Union was like this too and was already fairly brutal before Stalin.
I just see communism as a failed ideology.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's possible to really have non-authoritarian communism on a large scale.
If you try, you're in all likelihood going to get some kind of grass-roots capitalism instead.
Obviously a Marxist enterprise isn't going to work in a society that's otherwise capitalist. It would be like trying to open a profit-based business in a communist society. A society which by definition does not have private property or money.
There's something to be said about a business where there is more power to the workers than the business owner, though. Seems in this case it was just a case of incompetence by the staff instead of any fault with that model.
[QUOTE]It turns out, in a shocking revelation to the store’s management, that those Soviet bread lines were a bug, not a feature of Communism.[/QUOTE]
:zing:
I remember a nearby pizza place I liked and frequented often got bought out by a Co-op, I went in there once, got my normal order, and it cost 3 times ($15) what it used too and wasn't as good (all new staff, didn't recognize any of them, and they were all in a group behind the register, more staff than would ever be necessary at that time of day). Though the quirkiest thing was that while I payed the new normal price, during high business hours, the food was on "sale" for half price, which was still more expensive than it used to be. I think they shut Down after a month or two, apparently charging people double for inconveniently entering your store before rush hour was a bad business model.
i don't see anything innovative about this
it's just a bunch of self-centred people trying to be different in a bad way
[editline]11th December 2016[/editline]
i can't seem to think of anything else, maybe i chose the wrong words
all i know is that this is nothing but pure idiocy
[QUOTE=Chonch;51509826]The best part is that they are now selling the means of production to the highest bidder.
[/QUOTE]
I wonder if the debt collects will seize it?
[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;51510640]Obviously a Marxist enterprise isn't going to work in a society that's otherwise capitalist. It would be like trying to open a profit-based business in a communist society. A society which by definition does not have private property or money.
There's something to be said about a business where there is more power to the workers than the business owner, though. Seems in this case it was just a case of incompetence by the staff instead of any fault with that model.[/QUOTE]
In most parts of Israel, there are Kibbutz, which is pretty close to a communist enterprise inside of a capitalist society. At least, as close as you'll probably get.
I've been by this place before. It's near the resturant that sells a dish called the "chub and tuck", complete with a "papa bless" caption on the menu. I ordered it about a year ago and it was p. good. I guess GR has a lot of weird resturants.
[T]http://i.imgur.com/B5UnfC5.jpg[/t]
I'm surprised that people here actually see this restaurant as a genuine example of a ''communist'' enterprise, even though it's far from that.
Starting from the mere fact that it'd be impossible to actually create a ''communist'' business, gimmicks such as a mural of revolutionaries make this restaurant as marxist as a mural of Mount Rushmore would make another restaurant patriotic. It's stereotypical marketing meant to attract attention.
This business failed due to dumb decisions that weren't even related to genuine communist tendencies. I mean, deciding closing hours purely by group decision? Come ooooooon...
[QUOTE=SpaceDiggle;51512047]I'm surprised that people here actually see this restaurant as a genuine example of a ''communist'' enterprise, even though it's far from that.
Starting from the mere fact that it'd be impossible to actually create a ''communist'' business, gimmicks such as a mural of revolutionaries make this restaurant as marxist as a mural of Mount Rushmore would make another restaurant patriotic. It's stereotypical marketing meant to attract attention.
This business failed due to dumb decisions that weren't even related to genuine communist tendencies. I mean, deciding closing hours purely by group decision? Come ooooooon...[/QUOTE]
Actually that is very close to certain communism-associated models (specifically a soviet republic, if I'm not mistaken, though this seems a little more basic than that).
These group decisions are common to all kinds of communism though, if you exclude dictatorships, oligarchies and things that are only communist in name.
It's entirely feasible to create an internally communist business (or even city, if you get everyone to sign up) inside a capitalist society, but that [I]still[/I] requires the people in charge to have decent business sense.
What's really not feasible is to create a larger-scale communist society in a world with resource scarcity that also isn't repressive. If you do, it only takes one or two people not playing along to (formally, at least) supersede that system.
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