• Planet Fitness revokes membership of woman who reported a transexual as a man
    181 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kyle902;47286934]I'd hardly call using the locker room at a gym exhibitionism. By your definition the locker room is already exhibitionism regardless.[/QUOTE] I think there's a difference between a bunch of people trying to get ready to work out or head home and some burly ass dude walking into the locker room of the opposite sex like his word and self-perception change the societal norms of people around him. Creepy ass people already spend all of their day in gyms pretending to do things to come off as inconspicuous. Having this as a loophole isn't very assuring that it won't be abused in some way.
[QUOTE=Doneeh;47287005]I think there's a difference between a bunch of people trying to get ready to work out or head home and some burly ass dude walking into the locker room of the opposite sex like his word and self-perception change the societal norms of people around him. Creepy ass people already spend all of their day in gyms pretending to do things to come off as inconspicuous. Having this as a loophole isn't very assuring that it won't be abused in some way.[/QUOTE] Why are you people assuming that all transwomen are "burly ass men"? Thats the only argument that I've heard.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;47286988]that said, I think we should work to remove the social construct that leads to us feeling so embarrassed about our bodies around members of the opposite sex, which would eliminate these sort of problems entirely.[/QUOTE] I don't think that will ever be possible. As long as some people derive pleasure from nakedness of the other sex's body, something which is most probably part of our instinct, the concept of modesty will exist to compensate.
[QUOTE=_Axel;47287014]I don't think that will ever be possible. As long as some people derive pleasure from nakedness of the other sex's body, something which is most probably part of our instinct, the concept of modesty will exist to compensate.[/QUOTE] By that logic we should ban regular changing rooms because people with same sex attraction would receive "pleasure" from being there.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;47286997]I'm pretty sure its still illegal to do indecent things in the locker room.[/QUOTE] Well voyeurism is considered indecent by most and it simply consists in looking at naked people against their will. I don't see how you could make that illegal in locker rooms. [QUOTE]What about a transwoman who looked like, you know, a woman?[/QUOTE] Then I guess the opposite would be true.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;47286984]Are you saying it would be better for a transwoman to use the mens locker room?[/QUOTE] I wasn't commenting on that specifically, I was addressing your incredulity at the mere idea of gender-segregated changing rooms. But for this case, there's no good solution. Either the transgender individual is going to be uncomfortable, or the people around them will be. I'd like us to live in a society where cisgender people aren't made uncomfortable sharing a locker room with pre-transition trans people, but as that's not yet the society we live in I think we need to try to be understanding about it. I think Planet Fitness has the right idea here, but kicking people out when they feel uncomfortable is too much, and there's the potential for someone to exploit the policy to be a creep and I don't have a good answer to that.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;47287020]By that logic we should ban regular changing rooms because people with same sex attraction would receive "pleasure" from being there.[/QUOTE] Yeah like I said it's a concept that only considers the most represented traits of the population. It's not tailored for exceptions. IMO the best solution would be to provide a sizeable amount of individual locker rooms and leave common changing rooms for people who don't give a fuck.
[QUOTE=_Axel;47287014]I don't think that will ever be possible. As long as some people derive pleasure from nakedness of the other sex's body, something which is most probably part of our instinct, the concept of modesty will exist to compensate.[/QUOTE] there have been and still are societies and cultures where the nude body does not draw the same sort of reactions as it does in our culture. the whole modesty concept is, from a historical perspective, a fairly recent thing and is almost entirely cultural, not instinctual. It [I]feels[/I] instinctual because we've been brought up in it, and sadly that means we almost certianly wont be able to shake it in our generation (I doubt I ever could, personally), but that doesn't mean it wont ever change.
[QUOTE=_Axel;47287044] IMO the best solution would be to provide a sizeable amount of individual locker rooms and leave common changing rooms for people who don't give a fuck.[/QUOTE] That sounds like a reasonable solution. Sorry if I came off as confrontational. Usually TG threads in SH devolve into a shitflinging fit
[QUOTE=Squad1993;47286970]Even if it is "ok" to show your dick/vagina openly in a gym locker room, it's kind of common courtesy not to.[/QUOTE] what? is USA in the same realm as Europe?
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;47287054]there have been and still are societies and cultures where the nude body does not draw the same sort of reactions as it does in our culture. the whole modesty concept is, from a historical perspective, a fairly recent thing and is almost entirely cultural, not instinctual. It [I]feels[/I] instinctual because we've been brought up in it, and sadly that means we almost certianly wont be able to shake it in our generation (I doubt I ever could, personally), but that doesn't mean it wont ever change.[/QUOTE] Meh, I don't see the deletion of modesty as something that would achieve any substantial goal when it comes to social policies. It only changes things in very specific situations such as this one, and it takes a lot less resources and effort to introduce individual locker rooms to gyms than trying to reform a tradition that's been ingrained in our societies for millenia.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;47287020]By that logic we should ban regular changing rooms because people with same sex attraction would receive "pleasure" from being there.[/QUOTE] [t]http://i.imgur.com/4HdCau8.jpg[/t] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("shitpost" - OvB))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Martele;47287070][t]http://i.imgur.com/4HdCau8.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] huh?
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47287064]what? is USA in the same realm as Europe?[/QUOTE] We're talking about a Planet Fitness in Michigan. Which is in the United States. So no, its not. Therefore, we do things differently. Everytime I have ever gone to a gym/pool/public changing area, everyone except for the old people who dont give a shit try to cover up.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;47287012]Why are you people assuming that all transwomen are "burly ass men"? Thats the only argument that I've heard.[/QUOTE] We're not, but a lot of creep-asses tend to be burly ass men. Plus, if this guy looked masculine enough that someone was instantly uncomfortable to the degree that she left everything she was doing to report him, then obviously he was in the wrong room. I mean, yeah, if you're transitioning and sliding across the scale towards femininity, I suppose you could be in there without causing any problems, but this was just some dude who saw himself as a woman in his own mind, not in reality. He may have felt like a woman, but he looked like a massive creep-wad.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47287064]what? is USA in the same realm as Europe?[/QUOTE] in the times Ive been to Europe, I was very surprised by how much less people gave a shit about public nudity. I saw loads of buck-naked people (mostly men) in pools, steam rooms, hot springs, etc. that is almost entirely unheard of in the US
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;47287075]he's saying you are digging your own hole due to your own biases clouding your judgement[/QUOTE] How exactly am I blinded by my own biases?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;47287096]How exactly am I blinded by my own biases?[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/IZSRzWB.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Martele;47287110][img]http://i.imgur.com/IZSRzWB.png[/img][/QUOTE] What exactly does that prove?
A lot of saunas pretty much require people to be buck naked some of them are even co-ed
By saying "So" you disregarded a solid fact that a majority of people don't like to see another's genitals in public situations.
[QUOTE=Squad1993;47287127]By saying "So" you disregarded a solid fact that a majority of people don't like to see another's genitals in public situations.[/QUOTE] I didn't disregard it. I questioned its relevance in regards to what I was arguing. [editline]9th March 2015[/editline] Hell I even acknowledged it in my own post
How the fuck was she supposed to know it wasn't a real man and not a transgendered person? Especially if it was someone who did not give any indication whatsoever? I mean, she was understandably confused considering shit like this isn't exactly commonplace (yet).
[QUOTE=NotMeh;47287119]A lot of saunas pretty much require people to be buck naked some of them are even co-ed[/QUOTE] yeah when I went to the Turkish baths in Budpest it was like that for some areas that's generally a weird thing for Americans, its to the point you would almost never see an American wearing a speedo at the pool unless they are a sport swimmer. We almost exclusively wear trunks, when (from what Ive seen) most European guys wear speedos. Ill never really understand the US' reputation for being sex-crazed, I'd say we are actually pretty prudish compared to most countries
I don't like seeing dicks in the men's locker rooms let alone if I was a woman in a woman's locker room.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;47287166]yeah when I went to the Turkish baths in Budpest it was like that for some areas that's generally a weird thing for Americans, its to the point you would almost never see an American wearing a speedo at the pool unless they are a sport swimmer. We almost exclusively wear trunks, when (from what Ive seen) most European guys wear speedos. Ill never really understand the US' reputation for being sex-crazed, I'd say we are actually pretty prudish compared to most countries[/QUOTE] No, we don't. Old people or swimmers wear speedos. Most of us are also not that comfortable being naked around each other, especially not with people of the opposite sex. Perhaps because Americans are so extremely prudish, it seems like we're not, but it really isn't how you make it out to be in most places in Europe I've been to.
Use the fucking STALLS.
[QUOTE=Shadow801;47286728]Personally I still think changing rooms etc should be for same sex only. Transexual is fine, but I don't think transgender people should be alowed in areas of public nudity which are segregated for privacy/protection. But that's just my personal opinion. Otherwise what is to stop me putting on a wig and saying I am transgender?[/QUOTE] You don't need a wig, just say you're transgender and everyone who is not a complete asshole will try to understand and help you. Crazy, isn't it?
[QUOTE=Shark Bones;47287206]Use the fucking STALLS.[/QUOTE] Exactly, if it's an open locker room though use a TOWEL.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;47286900]So?[/QUOTE] Can you send me ur mum's nudes
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