Theresa May signs letter that will trigger Brexit tomorrow
149 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52027682]England shall prevail.[/QUOTE]
So fuck the Scottish, the Welsh, the Northern Irish and us, then?
Yeah, typical Brexiteer attitude so.
Why don't you move to England if you love it so much? You'll be able to watch the fall in real time.
[QUOTE=Dracon;52027730]Representative Democracy is also a failure. Case in point: The USA[/QUOTE]
Obviously it's not failure-proof, but come on, direct democracy is terrible most of the time. Though it's hard to tell since I don't know of a government having ever gone the full direct democracy route.
[QUOTE=DeepInferno;52027737]Remain, but I'm not going to bitch about it on a forum as much as I don't like the result.[/QUOTE]
Some good virtue signalling there lad. Totally dismissing the people that will be fucked by this. Politics isn't some video game where you just go "Aaaah. I lost, UwU oh well lol just gotta try again!"
For a healthy democracy you need people to inform themselves, and to be active as well.
[QUOTE=Loadingue;52027743]Obviously it's not failure-proof, but come on, direct democracy is terrible most of the time. Though it's hard to tell since I don't know of a government having ever gone the full direct democracy route.[/QUOTE]
For things based more on ethics than facts and evidence like whether the death penalty should be allowed I think it's a bit better. And there's specific countries like switzerland, and iceland that it works well/has good potential in, with a small and educated populace.
But for an economic issue like the EU for a country of 100 mio people, ah fuck no lmao.
[QUOTE=DeepInferno;52027634]That's democracy, you may not like the result but we have to deal with it.[/QUOTE]
The point of representative democracy is precisely to have the will of all reflected in the government's decision, to avoid having a tyranny of the majority, to have choices. And we had no choices other than "yes" or "no".
[QUOTE=Mallow234;52027711]Whilst I voted remain, I feel like everyone here is crying doom when it's obviously not the end of days[/QUOTE]
This is an action done for factually incorrect reasons that will have major repercussions in your future. It's not the end of the world, but don't think this won't affect you.
[QUOTE=Loadingue;52027743]Though it's hard to tell since I don't know of a government having ever gone the full direct democracy route.[/QUOTE]
T. Switzerland, and they do pretty well (ironically enough outside the EU)
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52027548]As of today, I'm in a legal void. I'm a UK expat living in an EU country, and I have no idea what my legal status is going to be in 2 years.[/QUOTE]
My advice would be to start working on Swedish citizenship.
[QUOTE=DeepInferno;52027737]Remain, but I'm not going to bitch about it on a forum as much as I don't like the result.[/QUOTE]Not like there's any point to SH otherwise; the only one of us who had near-political-office experience turned out to be a bit of a dick.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;52027753]Not like there's any point to SH otherwise; the only one of us who had near-political-office experience turned out to be a bit of a dick.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget he pretty much got someone killed, oh and had his tires stolen.
[QUOTE=DeepInferno;52027737]Remain, but I'm not going to bitch about it on a forum as much as I don't like the result.[/QUOTE]
It seems a bit weird though. Going "It's democracy, deal with it" with the knowledge that the leave side was fuelled by fearmongering and lies
[QUOTE=Reagy;52027760]Don't forget he pretty much got someone killed, oh and had his tires stolen.[/QUOTE]
But his google glasses were stolen by the police so that kind of balances it out
[QUOTE=gokiyono;52027767]It seems a bit weird though. Going "It's democracy, deal with it" with the knowledge that the leave side was fuelled by fearmongering and lies[/QUOTE]
I will say this I understand people's concerns about the result and I am also concerned and a little worried. But with that said I'm going to wait and see first with the kind of deal the government get first before jumping to those conclusions, you never know what could happen.
[QUOTE=DeepInferno;52027776]I will say this I understand people's concerns about the result and I am also concerned and a little worried. But with that said I'm going to wait and see first with the kind of deal the government get first before jumping to those conclusions, you never know what could happen.[/QUOTE]
Seems like a silly position to take, what with all these experts saying it was a bad idea. Like with Trump. People kept going "just wait and see" and now he seems to be crashing the US with as few survivors as possible
[QUOTE=gokiyono;52027788]Seems like a silly position to take, what with all these experts saying it was a bad idea. Like with Trump. People kept going "just wait and see" and now he seems to be crashing the US with as few survivors as possible[/QUOTE]
Leaving the EU isn't the same as voting a mutant orange into office to be fair
[QUOTE=UnknownDude;52027750]My advice would be to start working on Swedish citizenship.[/QUOTE]
I would have to wait if there will be exemptions for UK citizens as I don't qualify for it just yet. It was always my plan to try and acquire Swedish citizenship as I actually do care for this country quite a lot and I would much rather be a citizen of a country that gives a damn about me than of one that doesn't. I'd be willing to forfeit my UK citizenship to become a Swedish citizen tbh, and I feel many other expats would too.
[QUOTE=Mallow234;52027793]Leaving the EU isn't the same as voting a mutant orange into office to be fair[/QUOTE]
But they sort of are. One royally fucks your country, and one fucks your country. Either way you're fucked
[QUOTE=Mallow234;52027793]Leaving the EU isn't the same as voting a mutant orange into office to be fair[/QUOTE]
It's still a decision that's going to have awful consequences - some of which are still very much up in the air because the British government doesn't appear to really have a good plan.
[QUOTE=gokiyono;52027800]But they sort of are. One royally fucks your country, and one fucks your country. Either way you're fucked[/QUOTE]
One is a decision which might have both positive and negative impacts, and one is a person who is obviously unfit for leadership controlling the US for 4+ years - it's apples and oranges
Poor Gibraltar. They're going to be so fucked right now.
[QUOTE=Mallow234;52027711]Whilst I voted remain, I feel like everyone here is crying doom when it's obviously not the end of days[/QUOTE]
There is reasonable cause for alarm. We can't compete with the trade agreement that the EU provides through its membership. There's this notion that we have the WTO as a safety net for trade, but the WTO doesn't offer a template as a backup solution. The benefit of the EU is that we have 27 other countries to work with when negotiating trade through the WTO - now we're going to be by ourselves in negotiations, with other non-EU member states able to have their say. Sounds a heck of a lot harder to me. The WTO also isn't strong in trading services - which is a bit awkward given our 80% services economy.
Plus we have to consider Mutual Recognition Agreements - efforts to overcome non-tariff barriers. It took the US 4 years [i]just to negotiate[/i] (not implement) its MRAs with the EU. This was the period 1994-98 for its initial agreements, and it was still into the mid-2000s that different assessment bodies were disagreeing with each other about how to implement the clauses. The US has 135 of these with the EU now, and when we leave, we'll have to secure these again, since we'll lose them when we leave the EU. So, we'll have to negotiate those, as well as the EU MRAs, plus the 65 that China has with the EU too.
I really don't see how the UK govt has put together a team of diplomats and lawmakers who could handle the sheer complexity of the task at hand with the time allotted.
[QUOTE=Mallow234;52027812]One is a decision which might have both positive and negative impacts, and one is a person who is obviously unfit for leadership controlling the US for 4+ years - it's apples and oranges[/QUOTE]
And people kept saying "Just wait and see. He might be a good president" despite all the evidence presented (usually by Trump being Trump) about Trump. This is similar to what you and DeepInferno are saying right now
tbh im more worried about what's gonna happen to the other countries in the UK, legit upset that we're almost certainly gonna lose scotland, and maybe lose ireland too
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52027682]England shall prevail.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it will. Luckily for you, you don't have to live here and see how everyday items have increased in price, the lack of funding in our NHS and education, or how people actually feel more divided than ever.
My brother works as a nurse in London, and he has to live in a small flat with barely any spare cash. The thought that people like him and many others are going to face harsher times due to "sovereignty" or an "empire" long gone (thanks to the guy who sent me those book recommendations, put one on the kindle and gave it a start) is disgusting. Real people's actual lives are at stake, not a Wikipedia article on the history of the British empire.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52027682]England shall prevail.[/QUOTE]
England shall prevail at falling apart and returning to the backwater status it belongs.
Scotland forever, 26+6=1, and God fuck the queen.
God damn, if brexit means the total collapse of the rotting corpse that is the English domination of the isles, then consider me a leaver.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52027849]
Scotland forever, 26+6=1, and God fuck the queen.
[/QUOTE]
YOU SAID WHAT ABOUT THE QUEEN?
[QUOTE=Mallow234;52027812]One is a decision which might have both positive and negative impacts, and one is a person who is obviously unfit for leadership controlling the US for 4+ years - it's apples and oranges[/QUOTE]
Sorry, what "positive impacts" exist for this scenario?
We aren't going to get better trade deals. Our country isn't that good for trade, we run a service economy after all. We aren't going to "take back control", we already had control. We were single handedly vetoing so much shit that the rest of the EU member states wanted to do that they're probably glad to see us gone. We aren't gaining any extra border control, we had almost total control outside of exceptions made for agreements (this will happen outside of the EU too, gotta sweeten the deal somehow)
To make up for the loss of various subsidises from the EU, we'd need to reapproriate the membership fee (and then some) otherwise our agriculture, science and arts sectors are going to fucking die. We're going to suffer a brain drain, as researchers relied on the freedom of movement to partake in international research. The only people we've made happier are Trump, an imbecile with a nuclear launch device, and Putin , a man determined to undermine the power structures of the western world.
What are the fucking benefits to this ridiculous decision? We've already lost one MP to the lunacy of the leave campaign. Now that actual livelihoods are at risk, where do you think we're going to end up?
[QUOTE=DogGunn;52027854]YOU SAID WHAT ABOUT THE QUEEN?[/QUOTE]
Okay I like Liz and that one apache flying prince but other than that I mean lol who even has kingship anymore
now the uk can finally become a USA [del]state[/del] overseas territory
[QUOTE=hexpunK;52027856]Sorry, what "positive impacts" exist for this scenario?
[/QUOTE]
Here's a positive impact you might actually acknowledge.
The British "far right" has been destroyed by Brexit. They've been placated and now have no reason to exist.
[QUOTE=The mouse;52027873]Here's a positive impact you might actually acknowledge.
The British "far right" has been destroyed by Brexit. They've been placated and now have no reason to exist.[/QUOTE]
Obviously worth it for sacrificing economic stability.
[QUOTE=icemaz;52027835]I don't think it will. Luckily for you, you don't have to live here and see how everyday items have increased in price, the lack of funding in our NHS and education, or how people actually feel more divided than ever.
My brother works as a nurse in London, and he has to live in a small flat with barely any spare cash. The thought that people like him and many others are going to face harsher times due to "sovereignty" or an "empire" long gone (thanks to the guy who sent me those book recommendations, put one on the kindle and gave it a start) is disgusting. Real people's actual lives are at stake, not a Wikipedia article on the history of the British empire.[/QUOTE]
I know, it's fucking disgusting, my mate works in the Scientific Field and he is so royally screwed in terms of funding, whereas a colleague of mine voted leave "for a laugh". It's people's lives, and their families futures.
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