[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48034361]Don't see too may Jewish people flying Nazi flags, do you? You can still buy those.[/QUOTE]
And if you're seen flying a Swastika (even as a memorial) you will get rightfully chewed the fuck out of for having that fucking thing up a pole or out your window. Strangely this doesn't apply to the confederate flag despite it also being a symbol of oppression against an entire race and class of people because "muh memorial".
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48034361]Don't see too may Jewish people flying Nazi flags, do you? You can still buy those.[/QUOTE]
i wonder why lol
also you can't buy nazi flags on ebay :^)
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48034339]So we should ban Imperial German symbolism because Neo-Nazis appropriated it?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PwrNDhZ.jpg[/IMG]
Sorry fellas, guess all Germans in WW1 were Nazis, too - here's a Neo-Nazi using the Imperial German flag.[/QUOTE]
Except the Imperial German government wasn't anti-Semitic (or if it was, not in a great way)
Confederacy flag is a bit different buddy, it was used extensively during white supremacy meet ups and meetings and has racist meaning entrenched in it
try again
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;48034382][URL]http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/12/02/black-college-student-wins-fight-to-display-confederate-flag-in-dorm-room/[/URL]
FUCK.
Everyone has their own reason for owning that flag, just because some people misuse or make their own symbolizing of the original flag should not penalize the people who want to buy/own for non-racist purposes.[/QUOTE]
the flag was a battle flag for a bunch of states where white people were classed superior to blacks to the point they were just for slavery but nah [I]non racist purposes[/I]
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48034283]uhuh
Could they not find a better symbol to do so with? I dunno, the flags of the state they want to remember the lost lives for? A flag for the town or city that was destroyed? Any flag that wasn't actually flown by a group who wanted to own other human beings?[/QUOTE]
Hasn't the British flag practically not changed over the past 400 years? Weren't they some of the first to start exporting slaves in the 1600's?
Should UK change their flag as it could be considered offensive?
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;48034406]Hasn't the British flag practically not changed over the past 400 years? Weren't they some of the first to start exporting slaves?
Should UK change their flag as it could be considered offensive?[/QUOTE]
No because it's different when it's [I]my[/I] flag. Only other people have to change theirs.
[QUOTE=Ridge;48034380]Does this mean eBay will be banning the sale of modified Dodge Chargers, as well?[/QUOTE]
Doubt it, tied into my last post you can't buy a flag of the swastika but you can buy 'memorabilia' which have the swastika on, money, stamps, medals ect.
The General Lee dodge would likely fall under the same category.
What are the "non-racist" uses for owning a confederate flag?
Like I'm actually curious because I have never met someone down here who has owned a confederate flag and wasn't, at the very least, prone to low key racism.
But what if the original or a replica of the General Lee goes on sale? HOW WILL I BUY IT?!
[img]http://www.smithbrosrestorations.com/i/generalLee_0904_20.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=codenamecueball;48034403]the flag was a battle flag for a bunch of states where white people were classed superior to blacks to the point they were just for slavery but nah [I]non racist purposes[/I][/QUOTE]
Did you not pay attention in history cla-
[img]http://facepunch.com/fp/flags/gb.png[/img]
Slavery was one of many points in the civil war, but it was not the only one. Tax, trade, and commerce were also some of the issues in the war. Slavery was just the most notable reason, as it would affect all the areas I listed.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;48034406]Hasn't the British flag practically not changed over the past 400 years? Weren't they some of the first to start exporting slaves in the 1600's?
Should UK change their flag as it could be considered offensive?[/QUOTE]
UK flag has gone through many revisions such as it changing when Ireland was included
This is a big enough drag to say that the UK should change its flag because it was featured on the Apartheid era South African flag, you could even draw it to the pre-republic Rhodesian flag
Go further and say it was used during colonial Australia and Africa
And the further you go on, the stupider it is.
[editline]24th June 2015[/editline]
In fact you could say that the Old British flag used in the 1600's is not used anymore
and it has changed
so ???
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;48034406]Hasn't the British flag practically not changed over the past 400 years? Weren't they some of the first to start exporting slaves in the 1600's?
Should UK change their flag as it could be considered offensive?[/QUOTE]
The flag we use is a representation of the country and all its history. Including the parts where we admitted "actually we really fucked up guys...you're free". The confederate flag is a representation of the ideology (as it's a battle flag, not a state flag, not a country flag) of the time that those who flew the flag fought for; black people are worse than white people, let me own them you northern pricks.
Totally incomparable. Try again.
[editline]23rd June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48034411]No because it's different when it's [I]my[/I] flag. Only other people have to change theirs.[/QUOTE]
lmao you're not a victim here. calm the fuck down buddy.
[QUOTE=Pascall;48034421]What are the "non-racist" uses for owning a confederate flag?
Like I'm actually curious because I have never met someone down here who has owned a confederate flag and wasn't, at the very least, prone to low key racism.[/QUOTE]
Personally, I have ancestors who participated in the war on the Confederate side. I keep a Confederate flag folded in the shadowbox with some of their possessions and other Civil War memorabilia. Others may simply find the history interesting.
Down here it's simply a symbol of Southern pride. I have seen it used in a racist context and I have seen blacks and whites flying it together at Southern culture festivals and I have seen it on the pickemup trucks of farmers and hunters of all colors. It's not divisive here. It's unifying. Naturally I find it disgusting that suddenly those ancestors whose interests were more in not being economically skullfucked by a Congress in which they had no representation are now EVIL RACIST VILLAINS who got off on oppressing black people.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48034442]The flag we use is a representation of the country and all its history. Including the parts where we admitted "actually we really fucked up guys...you're free". The confederate flag is a representation of the ideology (as it's a battle flag, not a state flag, not a country flag) of the time that those who flew the flag fought for; black people are worse than white people, let me own them you northern pricks.
Totally incomparable. Try again.
[editline]23rd June 2015[/editline]
lmao you're not a victim here. calm the fuck down buddy.[/QUOTE]
"It's different when it's my flag! I [I]admitted[/I] slavery was wrong, as if [I]they[/I] haven't!"
I don't think we should ban the sale of historical relics even if they represent a stain in history. I quite like the idea of collecting war relics from WWII and the civil war. Would I be a terrible person having a nazi flag or confederate battle flag in my collection?
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48034453]"It's different when it's my flag! I [I]admitted[/I] slavery was wrong, as if [I]they[/I] haven't!"[/QUOTE]
Flags have history. Ours has had a chance to change and represent tons of things that don't suck shit. The confederate flag has never had that chance because [I]they lost[/I]. And the ideals at the time behind that flag included the right to own other humans.
Yes. Yes it is different. And I'd argue this exact same thing for the flag of the USA as well, seeing as your history isn't exactly spotless either. But your country still tries to undo awful ideas from time to time.
It just seems like you'd have to be totally oblivious of context and meaning to not be able to see the problem with the Confederate flag.
[QUOTE=smurfy;48034482]It just seems like you'd have to be totally oblivious of context and meaning to not be able to see the problem with the Confederate flag.[/QUOTE]
It's still history
[QUOTE=smurfy;48034482]It just seems like you'd have to be totally oblivious of context and meaning to not be able to see the problem with the Confederate flag.[/QUOTE]
Or someone who doesn't live in an area where it has meaning- [img]http://facepunch.com/fp/flags/gb.png[/img]
Hey, now it makes sense.
Germany apologised for Nazism
Australia apologised for stealing aboriginal children from their birth parents until 1960
Britain has apologised and made up for it's racist policies and antics
Japan has, reluctantly, and in some ways, not really apologised for their catastrophic nature during WW2 but at least in some parts acknowledges it
And, while I don't know this for sure, Canada has at least apologised for it's treatment to the first nations (????????????)
Yet you rarely hear about the South apologising for slavery, or even the federal government
There hasn't been any if not at all any reconciliation for African Americans or even Native Americans for their oppression over many years
There's fucking bridges, streets and towns (?) named after fucking Klansmen, and yet you lot shovel racism under a pile of dirt and say it doesn't exist
You say it doesn't exist when a fucking flag representing oppression has people crying for its removal
You say it doesn't exist when you have politicians even coming from the right saying it's time for it to go
How about white Americans find the decency to apologise to the oppressed just like it's western counterparts
While I don't agree with the banning of historical pieces, one thing I can appreciate from this act is that it assists in rightfully solidifying the confederate flag as one of hatred and bigotry.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;48034492]Germany apologised for Nazism
Australia apologised for stealing aboriginal children from their birth parents until 1960
Britain has apologised and made up for it's racist policies and antics
Japan has, reluctantly, and in some ways, not really apologised for their catastrophic nature during WW2 but at least in some parts acknowledges it
And, while I don't know this for sure, Canada has at least apologised for it's treatment to the first nations (????????????)
Yet you rarely hear about the South apologising for slavery, or even the federal government
There hasn't been any if not at all any reconciliation for African Americans or even Native Americans for their oppression over many years
There's fucking bridges, streets and towns (?) named after fucking Klansmen, and yet you lot shovel racism under a pile of dirt and say it doesn't exist
You say it doesn't exist when a fucking flag representing oppression has people crying for its removal
You say it doesn't exist when you have politicians even coming from the right saying it's time for it to go
How about white Americans find the decency to apologise to the oppressed just like it's western counterparts[/QUOTE]
Why do I have to apologize for slavery? Because I'm white? Because in the 1860s my family picked cotton in a field for no pay the same as the black field hands? Because they took up arms against invaders from the north burning farms and homes? Somehow I'm responsible for slavery?
I feel like owning it for memorabilia is fine, but buying a poorly designed t-shirt with the flag on it or buying a shitty decal for your car is probably not because they want to show respect.
Just a hokey trinket that probably comes across as even more racist because they don't pay attention to the connotation.
If you can look at the flag and say that you recognize the underlying racial connotations and recognize what the flag is usually symbolizing, then that's responsible ownership.
If you're getting a phone case with the stars and bars on it just because "southern pride!" that is not responsible and downplays a lot of the history behind it.
I guess their loss if I wanted to for some reason buy a Confederate Flag?
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48034510]Why do I have to apologize for slavery? Because I'm white? Because in the 1860s my family picked cotton in a field for no pay the same as the black field hands? Somehow I'm responsible for slavery?[/QUOTE]
Because it shows that the whites want to move on from this bullshit. This same argument was applied to politicians who were elected into Australian politics
"well i wasn't elected during the stolen generation and i have no part"
"not my problem"
"i dont see how it's up to our government to apologise for something that another government did"
trust me, these same excuses looped until 2008 when former prime minister Kevin Rudd said "fuck this, I'll do it"
It was a massive start to the healing process, and it would be a massive healing process to America if they took this pathway. Trust me
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;48034533]Because it shows that the whites want to move on from this bullshit. This same argument was applied to politicians who were elected into Australian politics
"well i wasn't elected during the stolen generation and i have no part"
"not my problem"
"i dont see how it's up to our government to apologise for something that another government did"
trust me, these same excuses looped until 2008 when former prime minister Kevin Rudd said "fuck this, I'll do it"
It was a massive healing process, and it would be a massive healing process to America if they took this pathway. Trust me[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry slavery happened. I'm not responsible for it. I refuse to take responsibility for a human rights violation that was committed by the people who abused and exploited my own ancestors 160 years ago. Sorry, no. I don't owe anyone an apology. If I want to keep a Confederate battle flag in memorial to ancestors who stood their ground against a violent incursion they didn't ask for, I have the right to do so and plan to exercise it.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48034170]We're so against racism we'll generalize 9 million people who were living in the South at the time of the Civil War as all being racists. There's no irony here at all, no sir.[/QUOTE]
Consider how the Confederate flag is used today compared to how it's used back then, I don't think a bunch of skinheads care about the good ol' sons of the south defending their territory from the Union.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48034539]I'm sorry slavery happened. I'm not responsible for it. I refuse to take responsibility for a human rights violation that was committed by the people who abused and exploited my own ancestors 160 years ago. Sorry, no.[/QUOTE]
Shows how much Americans really care about moving on hey? Really justifies my argument that America is trapped in this loop of holding onto things that need to be thrown away asap.
How hard is it to say "look, I know it's not my government's fault, and the government before this and so on. But as an American, and as somebody who believes in justice. I want to apologise posthumously to those who were treated with harshness and indignity during slavery, after slavery and before the civil rights movement"
that's it, that's all, you begin the healing process, you kick the reforms in trying to dismantle racist stigma like street signs and what not and move on
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;48034492]
Yet you rarely hear about the South apologising for slavery, or even the federal government[/QUOTE]
Really what state do you live in? Most of the things have been done over the past 150 years to apologize. Reperations can be filed and paid for damages if people feel that their family has been re reimbursed.
[quote]There hasn't been any if not at all any reconciliation for African Americans or even Native Americans for their oppression over many years[/quote]
I'm really not sure what state you live in as culture festivals and remembrance of hardships native americans and african americans faced during the start of the US
[quote]There's fucking bridges, streets and towns (?) named after fucking Klansmen, and yet you lot shovel racism under a pile of dirt and say it doesn't exist[/quote]
Similar circumstances exist everywhere, you will never be able to get rid of these kinds of things regardless what country you live in. Something or some place will be named after someone who did something bad, and with a country of 330 million people, expecting everyone to be a good upstanding citizen is unreasonable, regardless where you are. While I don't approve of it, there are some people(especially elderly) who may want to remember relatives who did fight and die in the war.
[quote]You say it doesn't exist when a fucking flag representing oppression has people crying for its removal[/quote]
Most people I know who have the confederate flag will take it down if asked to do so, most people around me just hang it inside. However, I can't speak for everyone and yes some people DO use it fro the wrong symbolism.
[quote]How about white Americans find the decency to apologise to the oppressed just like it's western counterparts[/quote]
America has, I am not sure where you are getting this notion that America has never apologized for any wrong doing it has done.
I'm getting confused as to why you act like no one in America does this when you don't live here. Did you use to live here, do you have personal experiences in America to show the lack of effort done by the American citizens? Honestly, curious.
"I fly this Nazi flag, but I just care about the Werhmacht and them defending their homeland Germany, honest!"
Can you imagine if people said this
Perhaps we should ban the American flag for all of those genocides of Native Americans.
They're private businesses so that can do whatever but this is silly.
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