• eBay to ban sale of Confederate flag merchandise
    306 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Crash155;48038982]holy mother of joseph you're going all out on this, aren't you? is there apparently no such thing for honoring or respecting your family? unless they fucking went around like ISIS or the gestapo, what the hell is wrong with respecting your family? [editline]wtf[/editline] when do we start tearing down the confederate statues because "racist!!!"[/QUOTE] If you're gonna honor your family, don't do it with a flag that makes you look like either A, a trashy redneck, or B, a pro-slavery racist
so a person shouldn't honor what their heritage is because it will hurt your poor feelings or, g-d forbid, offend someone? [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("More rude posting" - Starpluck))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Crash155;48038999]so a person shouldn't honor what their heritage is because it will hurt your poor feelings or, g-d forbid, offend someone?[/QUOTE] Maybe if your heritage is a person in your family being a member of a treasonous army fighting to keep the right to own living humans, it's not something you should honor.
[QUOTE=Crash155;48038999]so a person shouldn't honor what their heritage is because it will hurt your poor feelings or, g-d forbid, offend someone?[/QUOTE] what a douche thing to say typical confederate flag wielding southerner, I suppose now, I dont think they should necessarily ban the flag from everywhere but removing it from county/state buildings, re-branding schools, thats a start
[QUOTE=Crash155;48038999]so a person shouldn't honor what their heritage is because it will hurt your poor feelings or, g-d forbid, offend someone?[/QUOTE] are you seriously saying people shouldn't be offended by a historically racist symbol that represents the subjugation of an entire race, because that's a new low even for you
[QUOTE=Naught;48039012]what a douche thing to say typical confederate flag wielding southerner, I suppose[/QUOTE] I'm a yank, try again But if you'd like, I could order a confederate battle flag to add to my growing flag collection
[QUOTE=Crash155;48039025]I'm a yank, try again But if you'd like, I could order a confederate battle flag to add to my growing flag collection[/QUOTE] You're coming off as petty rather then rebellious. "I'll spend money to maybe annoy someone online who I haven't met and never will meet!" [editline]Edited:[/editline] It's always amusing when someone you're arguing with in a thread gets perma'd. :v:
[QUOTE=erfinjerfin;48038990]I have a funny feeling that black slaves didn't exactly choose to fight in the war[/QUOTE] They never did. Slaves weren't authorized until 1865 and Richmond was besieged and the Army of Northern Virginia had surrendered by that point. The Louisiana Home Guard was entirely free black men, Creole, and Frenchman who volunteered.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;48039030]It's always amusing when someone you're arguing with in a thread gets perma'd. :v:[/QUOTE] Especially by someone they're arguing with.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48039052]Especially by someone they're arguing with.[/QUOTE] When you break the rules, you break the rules. He could have stepped away from a moment and cooled off, but he decided to keep being inflammatory.
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;48039041]They never did. Slaves weren't authorized until 1865 and Richmond was besieged and the Army of Northern Virginia had surrendered by that point. The Louisiana Home Guard was entirely free black men, Creole, and Frenchman who volunteered.[/QUOTE] I learn something new everyday.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48039052]Especially by someone they're arguing with.[/QUOTE] He was not debating with me, not that it makes any difference.
[QUOTE=erfinjerfin;48039061]I learn something new everyday.[/QUOTE] The plan had been to allow enslaved black men to volunteer for army service (possibly without permission from their masters, as Richmond was desperate at this point) in exchange for freedom after the war. Whether it would cover family members as well is unknown, as many of the records were destroyed in a fire during the siege.
if anyone cared to do any research, they would know that the 'confederate flag' was designed to be flown in battle for the american civil war, it wasn't even the flag that symbolized the confederate states of america in the first place. and if anyone cared to do any research on that war, they would know that african american slavery was only one of many many points of disagreement that the (attempted) confederate states of america had with the union. modern media absolutely loves to perpetuate the race wars and it's fucking stupid, they've convinced people that the confederate flag is a symbol of hate when really [url=https://www.google.com/search?q=heritage+not+hate&tbm=isch]it isn't[/url]. both liberal and conservative media are trying to turn people into racist shitheads by pushing their really paper thin agendas. liberal media can easily label a white person as a racist because they just so happened to commit a crime against a person that isn't white, and conservative media can easily call black people "thugs" and "degenerates" for rioting and burning cars when white hockey fans are "just a little out of control" or white biker gangs "had a brawl" for doing [I]the same exact shit[/I]. [B]what the fuck happened to objective thinking[/B]
[QUOTE=Qaus;48039235]if anyone cared to do any research, they would know that the 'confederate flag' was designed to be flown in battle for the american civil war, it wasn't even the flag that symbolized the confederate states of america in the first place. and if anyone cared to do any research on that war, they would know that african american slavery was only one of many many points of disagreement that the (attempted) confederate states of america had with the union. modern media absolutely loves to perpetuate the race wars and it's fucking stupid, they've convinced people that the confederate flag is a symbol of hate when really [url=https://www.google.com/search?q=heritage+not+hate&tbm=isch]it isn't[/url]. both liberal and conservative media are trying to turn people into racist shitheads by pushing their really paper thin agendas. liberal media can easily label a white person as a racist because they just so happened to commit a crime against a person that isn't white, and conservative media can easily call black people "thugs" and "degenerates" for rioting and burning cars when white hockey fans are "just a little out of control" or white biker gangs "had a brawl" for doing [I]the same exact shit[/I]. [B]what the fuck happened to objective thinking[/B][/QUOTE] actually if you did any amount of research into the war you would know that slavery was the main cause of most of the tensions between north and south such as economy and trade, territory expansion, legislation and tariffs, state and property rights, etc. also idk why i expected any decent information when i clicked your link but google images of heritage not hate is just as good lmfao
[QUOTE=Naught;48038991]sure you can honor and respect your family in private[/QUOTE] You know, I don't really care if someone flies the confederate flag because it's racist or because they're proud of their family or whatever the fuck their reason is. If they're doing it peacefully, fuck you, they're allowed to do it in public. If someone disagrees with you on anything, [b]anything[/b], and they aren't breaking any laws doing it, [b]they get to do it in public[/b]. Freedom of Expression is [b]fucking important[/b].
[QUOTE=Paramud;48040327]You know, I don't really care if someone flies the confederate flag because it's racist or because they're proud of their family or whatever the fuck their reason is. If they're doing it peacefully, fuck you, they're allowed to do it in public. If someone disagrees with you on anything, [b]anything[/b], and they aren't breaking any laws doing it, [b]they get to do it in public[/b]. Freedom of Expression is [b]fucking important[/b].[/QUOTE] I agree wholeheartedly. I also agree that companies have the freedom of expression to say "no you can't sell that on our website." There's no censorship happening - it's companies avoiding bad press and trying to improve their image by prohibiting the sales of certain products. I don't see the issue - it's like when Steam decided to ban Hatred and suddenly everyone was up in arms about censorship even though it was their right as a privately-owned company to do that anyways. The [I]only[/I] issue the majority of people had with this entire thing is that the South Carolina government was flying the flag. It's the same exact reason I don't want to see a giant cross in front of the capitol building - you can argue it's all about "our christian heritage" or "our southern heritage," but in doing so you discount the people that are not part of that heritage and you really fail at being a [I]representative democracy.[/I] Flying a confederate flag discounts millions of black people just for "respecting the dead" and "heritage." I guarantee that if this had been an enormous cross standing directly in front of SC government property, Facepunch would be up in arms about that, because it discounts millions of non-christian citizens. It's disrespectful and non-inclusive and not representative. It's not "southern heritage" - I'm a southerner and I think the confederate flag is inherently racist because it was the symbol of an entire nation fighting to the death to protect slavery. It's a racist flag. It's up to each company to make rules about what they want. I'd be fucking furious if the government decided to ban the flag completely, but companies are allowed to make these decisions - it's their right to prohibit people from selling things on a marketplace.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48040382]I agree wholeheartedly. I also agree that companies have the freedom of expression to say "no you can't sell that on our website."[/QUOTE] I know, I wasn't arguing against that. I took disagreement with Naught's idea that people should only be allowed to have certain ideals if they only express them privately.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];48037434'][img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/War_Ensign_of_Germany_1938-1945.svg/500px-War_Ensign_of_Germany_1938-1945.svg.png[/img] This is not the Nazi flag. It's a battle flag that was adopted shortly before the war began, and was flown by the military. It never served as a national flag of the greater Reich, only as a standard for the army to rally around. A symbol of Germany as a separate cultural group within Europe, to which the men in the military could take heart from. The flag itself has no racist imagery. Red represents valor, white represents purity, black represents justice. The 卐 is the swastika of Indo-Aryan mythology (like the Jainist flag) which was admired at the time. The reason it was adopted is because the German national flag and Soviet national flag looked very similar at a distance, and so caused battlefield confusion between the sides. There were three national German flags, none of which are the one one in question. First is the "Nationalflagge", which is what people often wrongly call the Empire flag. The second was the "Eisernes Kreuz Flagge." The third was the "Parteiflagge." I'm sure you can guess when those were adopted based on the names. It survived as a symbol of the bravery of those who fought for Germany in the war and during the war as a symbol of home to the soldiers, of the people they were fighting for. It was even used in Eastern Europe, by units with a heavy German makeup. That's because it was a symbol for Germany, not racism. The only way to view it as a "racist flag" is for someone who has no understanding of what they're looking at (apparently common) and to assume that it represents what it does not. You can't protect someone from actively offending themselves with their own ignorance, and so removing it in an effort to cater to them is ridiculous. The current German is more of a racist symbol, among other things, than the war flag. The British flag even more so.[/QUOTE] I would still let people fly it, wear it on belt buckles, and what not. That's called free speech. like who the fuck REALLY cares. My only issue is the US government flying confederate flags but citizens should be COMPLETELY free to think and fly what they want (be it Nazi Flags, Confederate Flags, Soviet Flags, flags of the Ottoman Empire) without interference from others unless they actively go and harm/call for harm against others (such as in the case of our Charleston Shooter), but that does not mean a witchhunt for likeminded individuals - only he.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;48034164]It's a shame that a terrorist attack has to be the kicker to ban stuff like this[/QUOTE] hate crime*
[QUOTE=matt000024;48038686]The Confederate flag is dumb and racist, but I don't think it is really ebay's place to stop serving people who wish to sell them.[/QUOTE] Uh I really don't and won't get into the rest of the argument, but it is exactly ebays place to stop people from selling it through their website. They are not saying if you use ebay you cannot sell confederate memorabilia anywhere ever, they are saying you cannot sell it through our website where we make money off what you sell.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;48037913]So, by your logic, the American Flag stands for slavery (also a regime that enslaved an entire people), genocide (can't forget those Native Americans), and bigotry (gay marriage was COMPLETELY banned up until recently). The context of a flag can't change right? You can think it's dumb all you want. It's not going to stop the large amount of southerners OF ALL RACES from flying a flag that represents southern pride, rebellion, and rejection of authority. That's what it stands for down here, and what it's going to continue standing for down here. You can either accept that or not.[/QUOTE] Except the American flag was never manufactured directly as a symbol of those things, however the flag you're arguing for (is it the Confederate flag? Rebel flag? Battle flag? Jehovah's Witness flag? I've lost track, people are calling it so many things these days) was created for a specific agenda, which was already explained in depth. [editline]24th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE='[Seed Eater];48038513']No, seriously, please, provide me some evidence. I remember seeing a doc on one guy but he was an outlier, which is why he had a short documentary on him. Can you show me evidence to where "a large number" of black people are using the flag as part of their identity? Cause last I knew they were burning that shit. [editline]24th June 2015[/editline] What ones to the contrary? All you've said so far are personal anecdotes and ignorance to historical facts, which I've responded to. Can you quote me posts that I've "ignored"?[/QUOTE] Not a large number, a "large portion", which implies a percentage, so according to his current wording a large percentage of black people in the south have embraced the Confederate flag. [editline]24th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Naught;48038970]so they fought for the slavery of their brothers and sisters okay? that doesn't make it right at all[/QUOTE] I guess they follow that same mantra of "I got here, they can too if they work hard enough!" that a lot of the super-wealthy elite follows these days.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48034221][url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-German-WW2-Military-Army-Poster-Liberators-18x24-/300850727078?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460c19c8a6]I[/url] [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Netherlands-WW2-War-Military-Poster-Print-Soldiers-in-German-Uniforms-2-/221783663352?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a35622f8]wonder[/url] [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRITISH-BUF-ARMBAND-german-ww2-1930s-BLACKSHIRTS-UNION-OF-FASCISTS-/261940447222?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cfcde07f6]what[/url] [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Italy-Italian-Fascist-Army-Savoia-Flag-84-x-54-/331586993298?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d341ffc92]other[/url] [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Japanese-Hinomaru-Yosegaki-Navy-Rising-Sun-Silk-Battle-Flag-40-x-24-/361312496169?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item541fe72a29]possibly[/url] [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Samurai-Vintage-Japanese-WW2-Propaganda-Poster-18x24-/300850723939?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460c19bc63]offensive[/url] [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-AUNT-JEMIMA-Pancakes-DEYS-a-HAPPIFYIN-Racist-Dialouge-VINTAGE-AD-/281336713305?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4180f99059]items[/url] [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-RACIST-Ohio-History-Grocery-Store-Advertising-Plate-Black-w-Watermelon-VGC-/291480142920?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43dd920448]you[/url] [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/1929-Ad-Buescher-Band-Music-Instrument-Saxophone-Tom-Brown-Blackface-Racist-YYC6-/301643720128?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item463b5de5c0]could[/url] [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/SS-3X5-FT-FLAG-POLYESTER-/221801305634?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a4635622]buy[/url][/QUOTE] I totally agree, my dad is a militaria and general collectibles antiques dealer, and a lot of his stuff is from Nazi Germany and things like that, and it's one of the most lucrative and expensive markets on eBay, so really, eBay are shooting themselves in the foot.
[QUOTE=Erasus;48040752]I totally agree, my dad is a militaria and general collectibles antiques dealer, and a lot of his stuff is from Nazi Germany and things like that, and it's one of the most lucrative and expensive markets on eBay, so really, eBay are shooting themselves in the foot.[/QUOTE] I'd consider it a victory in that eBay is performing a gesture that shows they care about something more than money for once.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;48040867]I'd consider it a victory in that eBay is performing a gesture that shows they care about something more than money for once.[/QUOTE] But then if eBay continue to take further action or if there is an uproar along the lines of "if you've removed this, then remove this and this", and that puts a lot of businesses, as well as eBay's at jeopardy.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;48040867]I'd consider it a victory in that eBay is performing a gesture that shows they care about something more than money for once.[/QUOTE] Victory for what exactly? All I'm seeing is a consumer set being denied the ability to purchase something they want. With big chain stores such as Walmart cracking down as well, I doubt you'd be able to get any of that stuff ANYWHERE now. The Confederate Flag is not illegal to own, or have it on anything. It's completely retarded for places such as EBay to take such an action. This isn't going to stop racists from being racists, and quite frankly I could give less of a shit if people wear the confederate flag as a beltbuckle, or on a t-shirt, or fly if off their truck because that's covered under Free Speech - my only issue is that Government institutions are flying the flag and have it in their state flag. It's a defeated Government and makes about as much sense as if we started flying Japan's flag in the Capital alongside the US flag after we dropped the Atomic Bombs on them after WWII.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;48040867]I'd consider it a victory in that eBay is performing a gesture that shows they care about something more than money for once.[/QUOTE] I consider it alarming that Americans are so casual about banning things that merely offend them. The Confederate battle flag may not seem like such a big deal to you but I promise you this attitude won't stop there.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48040906]I consider it alarming that Americans are so casual about banning things that merely offend them. The Confederate battle flag may not seem like such a big deal to you but I promise you this attitude won't stop there.[/QUOTE] I think the reason why people would dislike a symbol representing a country formed with the express purpose of perpetuating slavery, that later became used as a rallying symbol to oppose integration and prevent black people from voting to is probably more substantial than "mere offense".
[QUOTE=Ivef;48040509]hate crime*[/QUOTE] Politically motivated attack on civilians is a terror attack. It's terrorism. Just like Anders Behring Breivik. It's [i]also[/i] a hate crime.
[QUOTE=bdd458;48040901]Victory for what exactly? All I'm seeing is a consumer set being denied the ability to purchase something they want. With big chain stores such as Walmart cracking down as well, I doubt you'd be able to get any of that stuff ANYWHERE now. The Confederate Flag is not illegal to own, or have it on anything. It's completely retarded for places such as EBay to take such an action. This isn't going to stop racists from being racists, and quite frankly I could give less of a shit if people wear the confederate flag as a beltbuckle, or on a t-shirt, or fly if off their truck because that's covered under Free Speech - my only issue is that Government institutions are flying the flag and have it in their state flag. It's a defeated Government and makes about as much sense as if we started flying Japan's flag in the Capital alongside the US flag after we dropped the Atomic Bombs on them after WWII.[/QUOTE] It's eBay's right to decide what can and cannot be sold on their marketplace. They have loads of stuff banned. You can't sell items with racial slurs, you can't sell historical items from slavery like bills of sale and shackles and such, you can't sell any books written by Goebbels or Hitler or most major Nazi figures, you can't sell Nazi propaganda that says racist stuff on it, you can't sell Nazi uniforms with Nazi symbols, you can't sell any historical holocaust items or reproductions, you can't sell novelty items related to convicted violent felons... there's an enormous list of things eBay has banned from sale. The confederate flag isn't even that strange of an item for them to ban compared to some of the things they've banned - and the language is very flimsy and open to interpretation for a lot of them. If you really want to collect bill of sale, shackles, nazi memorabilia, nazi army outfits, and nazi propaganda that says "kill the jews," don't look on eBay. It's not that strange - The Wii marketplace doesn't sell porn games. They're completely allowed (and should be expected to) restrict what can be sold using their marketplace.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.