[QUOTE=Sableye;42340624]sure...point out the bad parts of the bible when arguing against it being a moral compass, what about jesus forgiving a prostitute or the tax man? what about the lessons of forgiveness, compassion with others, and idk....not stealing, cheating, beating, or killing? seems like those are all good morals to live by and they're all in the bible.
i don't know anything on the koran but it would seem to have similar morals and then some.
no the problem with religion is too many people use it as an excuse to cover their own shortcommings and evils, just because you raped someone and there are depictions of rape in a book doesn't mean the book is responsible for you raping someone[/QUOTE]
The koran is a bit tougher because the book is literally stating that it's definitive, unchangeable and that it has to be taken and applied word for word. It was thought as an improved version of the bible that allowed for way less inner conflicts between believers and less abuse because everyone gets the same version of the same book that says the same stuff regardless. It's a product of its time and it did great back then but now the whole "this is unchangeable" part needs to change since most moderate Muslims are just ignoring that part anyway.
[QUOTE=Explosions;42340660]Yes, follow Jesus and give up everything now, care not for your future, your family, your profession, give it all up and just listen to him! The end of the world is coming soon! Prepare!
Getting your morals from a messianic doomsayer is an interesting proposition.[/QUOTE]
That's not what Jesus teaches in the bible at all though.
Jesus was all like "yo bro don't be a dick okay" and that's pretty much it
[QUOTE=Explosions;42340346]And I'm getting really tired of this "you have to respect other peoples beliefs!" bullcrap. When something is objectively wrong an flies in the face of all reasoning and evidence, then it deserves no respect and should be shat on at every opportunity.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't it be easier to tell people to follow the humanistic ideals of religion instead of the harmful, inhumane ones? It worked for Christianity, it's mostly uncommon for Christians to own slaves and stone people now.
[QUOTE=BrainDeath;42339961]its a blog post which tells us that dawkins doesn't like religion
[/QUOTE]
people post blogs from NPR all the time and no one claims about them not being news. Its a double standard going on here
[QUOTE=Explosions;42340346]And I'm getting really tired of this "you have to respect other peoples beliefs!" bullcrap. When something is objectively wrong an flies in the face of all reasoning and evidence, then it deserves no respect and should be shat on at every opportunity.[/QUOTE]
Sure, but you have to make an observation and consider the belief before you decide it's objectively wrong - that it defies reasoning and evidence - and to do that you must have respect for it, because if you don't respect it you've already made up your mind.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;42340681]Wouldn't it be easier to tell people to follow the humanistic ideals of religion instead of the harmful, inhumane ones? It worked for Christianity, it's mostly uncommon for Christians to own slaves and stone people now.[/QUOTE]
considering that's what a lot of churches and organizations are trying to do but evidently it is easier said than done
Nice to see FP has matured on the subject of religion, honestly. A short few years ago it was more or less the spitting image of r/atheism. :v:
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42340016]I hope this thread wasn't made just to start another FP atheist circlejerk.
Gives SH a bad name :v:[/QUOTE]
um all these threads ever turn out to be are anti-atheist circlejerks wherein everyone paints atheists as fedora-tipping douchebag redditors
But okay if you really want to play the underdog i guess
[QUOTE=evilweazel;42340732]Nice to see FP has matured on the subject of religion, honestly. A short few years ago it was more or less the spitting image of r/atheism. :v:[/QUOTE]
Apparently maturing on the subject of religion means throwing secularism under the bus before it even steps through the door.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;42340661]That's not what Jesus teaches in the bible at all though.
Jesus was all like "yo bro don't be a dick okay" and that's pretty much it[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should actually read the book.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;42340681]Wouldn't it be easier to tell people to follow the humanistic ideals of religion instead of the harmful, inhumane ones? It worked for Christianity, it's mostly uncommon for Christians to own slaves and stone people now.[/QUOTE]
Lol yes it is pretty uncommon now. The funny part is that we stoppedthe stoning and slaving as we move [b]away[/b] from religion. And there is no need to follow "humanistic ideals of religion". Humans have innate moral values that have allowed us to live together for millenia. We would not have survived if we did not have such morals to begin with. We know not to murder, steal, insult, rape, etc. because those things are detrimental to group survival even on a very primitive level. Religion is merely the remains of prehistoric pseudoscience that we have attached morals to.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42340700]Sure, but you have to make an observation and consider the belief before you decide it's objectively wrong - that it defies reasoning and evidence - and to do that you must have respect for it, because if you don't respect it you've already made up your mind.[/QUOTE]
Lol why is it impossible to lose respect for something after you have rejected it?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;42340661]The koran is a bit tougher because the book is literally stating that it's definitive, unchangeable and that it has to be taken and applied word for word. It was thought as an improved version of the bible that allowed for way less inner conflicts between believers and less abuse because everyone gets the same version of the same book that says the same stuff regardless. It's a product of its time and it did great back then but now the whole "this is unchangeable" part needs to change since most moderate Muslims are just ignoring that part anyway.
That's not what Jesus teaches in the bible at all though.
Jesus was all like "yo bro don't be a dick okay" and that's pretty much it[/QUOTE]
ya what i was trying to say really was that people are the problem, the book exists as a book, what we make of what is in the book is the problem. its easier for people to blindly follow what others are saying, espeacially with islam because its a very strict straight forward religion, its up to people to rationalise and think about what they are going to do instead of blindly following, lead themselves. the problem is most people don't do this and end up using their religion as their excuse instead of trying to learn from religion and improve themselves.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;42340732]Nice to see FP has matured on the subject of religion, honestly. A short few years ago it was more or less the spitting image of r/atheism. :v:[/QUOTE]
get with the times, old man. don't you know that it's cool (now that 4chan started doing it) to hate on people who express any negative opinion on religion?
[QUOTE=Explosions;42340774]Lol why is it impossible to lose respect for something after you have rejected it?[/QUOTE]
Huh? That's not what I said, what I mean is that "You should respect others beliefs" isn't bullshit.
[QUOTE=Bazsil;42340753]um all these threads ever turn out to be are anti-atheist circlejerks wherein everyone paints atheists as fedora-tipping douchebag redditors
But okay if you really want to play the underdog i guess[/QUOTE]
To be fair, there was a time here where it was nearing reddit type post, back in the day.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42340859]Huh? That's not what I said, what I mean is that "You should respect others beliefs" isn't bullshit.[/QUOTE]
There's no reason to respect or despise any ideology until you have valued it. Once you have, however, ridiculous and insane beliefs should be completely disregarded.
[QUOTE=Explosions;42340927]There's no reason to respect or despise any ideology until you have valued it. Once you have, however, ridiculous and insane beliefs should be completely disregarded.[/QUOTE]
But by examining and valuating something you are respecting it, it's when you realise it's dumb you lose your respect.
[QUOTE=Explosions;42340927]There's no reason to respect or despise any ideology until you have valued it. Once you have, however, ridiculous and insane beliefs should be completely disregarded.[/QUOTE]
You can disregard it personally, but there is no reason to mock it and "shat' on it. I don't care if someone worships my mailbox, if that's there thing then so be it. No need to be an asshole
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
live and let live brah
Repeat?
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42340957]But by examining and valuating something you are respecting it, it's when you realise it's dumb you lose your respect.[/QUOTE]
Can you explain how you are reaching this conclusion?
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;42340962]You can disregard it personally, but there is no reason to mock it and "shat' on it. I don't care if someone worships my mailbox, if that's there thing then so be it. No need to be an asshole
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
live and let live brah[/QUOTE]
Worshiping a mailbox isn't sinister and vile like religion.
[QUOTE=Explosions;42340473]
Well you don't sound like you're consistent at all if you shun scientology and weird shit like that yet "accept" religions like Christianity. Seriously, just read the Bible. Read Genesis. You will no longer respect shit about that religion.[/QUOTE]
I think "tolerate" would be a better word than "accept". And even then tolerance should end when one persons beliefs invokes physical harm to another, such as believing a rape victim should be punished with lashes.
[QUOTE=Explosions;42340985]Can you explain how you are reaching this conclusion?[/QUOTE]
Well, I'm thinking that by taking your time and effort to think about something and valuate it you are respecting it - you wouldn't do that otherwise. But to be honest that's kind of pointless to argue.
You should have respect for all beliefs because someone obviously believes in it - especially when we're talking about millions of people. By disrespecting those beliefs you are not going to change anyones mind, so why not focus your efforts on researching and coming up with good arguments as to why they should change their minds?
And why would you even disregard religion when there is a considerable portion of todays scientists who are still religious? Why don't you try to convince them before you start taking the shit on all of religion?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;42341003]Honestly militant atheism is just as bad as militant religion. It's all fine and dandy to have one's own beliefs, and what does it matter as long as it's not affecting you?[/QUOTE]
What is "militant atheism"? Is it the lack of a belief in a deity or deities REALLY REALLY A LOT?
I don't see how a lack of something can be considered "militant".
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42341027]Well, I'm thinking that by taking your time and effort to think about something and valuate it you are respecting it - you wouldn't do that otherwise. But to be honest that's kind of pointless to argue.
You should have respect for all beliefs because someone obviously believes in it - especially when we're talking about millions of people. By disrespecting those beliefs you are not going to change anyones mind, so why not focus your efforts on researching and coming up with good arguments as to why they should change their minds?
And why would you even disregard religion when there is a considerable portion of todays scientists who are still religious? Why don't you try to convince them before you start taking the shit on all of religion?[/QUOTE]
You still haven't explained why evaluating something = respecting it. You just restated your opinion and followed up with a whole lotta nonsense.
[QUOTE=Explosions;42341033]What is "militant atheism"? Is it the lack of a belief in a deity or deities REALLY REALLY A LOT?
I don't see how a lack of something can be considered "militant".[/QUOTE]
There is no militant atheism, well there is probably in some amounts, but let me give you an example of one of the most horrible things to ever have occured in our history which occured on scientific beliefs and not religious beliefs:
The holocaust.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42341045]There is no militant atheism, well there is probably in some amounts, but let me give you an example of one of the most horrible things to ever have occured in our history which occured on scientific beliefs and not religious beliefs:
The holocaust.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I'm done with you. You are not posting in an intelligent manner at all.
[QUOTE=Explosions;42341033]You still haven't explained why evaluating something = respecting it. You just restated your opinion and followed up with a whole lotta nonsense.[/QUOTE]
To be honest I think I was missunderstanding your point from the beginning - but why would you not respect what people believe?
[QUOTE=Explosions;42341053]Yeah I'm done with you. You are not posting in an intelligent manner at all.[/QUOTE]
I'm arguing that religion isn't the cause of evil, but rather the "I'm objectively right, you're objectively wrong" attitude that causes evil.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;42341063]No, that asshole who sits there and says "EVERYONE IS FUCKING STUPID WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE HOW I DO".[/quote]
This has nothing to do with atheism.
[quote]The same applies to "that asshole" religious person "MY RELIGION IS FUCKING RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE CAN EAT A DICK, FUCK YOU ALL"
Most religious people honestly couldn't give two fucks about someone else's religion. It's rather annoying to see "RELIGION IS HOLDING US BACK" when the majority of religious person's don't care, and aren't exactly looking to stop things that improve quality of life.[/QUOTE]
The belief that nothing you do in this life really matters because you'll just get to live out the second round later is extremely dangerous and should be avoided at all costs. The same goes for the belief that there is a celestial dictator who watches and judges all you do and will torture you forever unless you obey him. It is sinister and destructive to its core.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;42341003]Honestly militant atheism is just as bad as militant religion. It's all fine and dandy to have one's own beliefs, and what does it matter as long as it's not affecting you?[/QUOTE]
"Militant atheism" is posting dumb, angry comments on forums like /r/atheism. Militant religion is bombing people for not believing what you do or invading countries to 'save' people by converting them.
Totally the same thing.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;42341124]So it's sinister and destructive to go to church on Sundays and mind your own business?[/QUOTE]
Yes, it is very sinister to gather with dozens of people together and listen to an authority figure who claims he has the power to interpret the dictator's wishes, and tells you how to properly live according to the doings of ancient desert tribes.
[QUOTE=Explosions;42341184]Yes, it is very sinister to gather with dozens of people together and listen to an authority figure who claims he has the power to interpret the dictator's wishes, and tells you how to properly live according to the doings of ancient desert tribes.[/QUOTE]
Not if those people know how to think.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42341196]Not if those people know how to think.[/QUOTE]
To be honest there is a sinister aspect to it. How many of those people chose to be [x] vs were raised into it without any choice of other beliefs?
That is possible with atheism but less likely.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
