• Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims
    339 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Stopper;37440170] I don't really think that your IQ dropping 8 points will turn you into a mindless drone. Hence the comparison with the margin of error. [/QUOTE] See this is the thing. It's not going to, probably. But the study says it'll drop on average 8 points. You're saying it won't make a difference. It will. Now you've somehow reached and gotten discrediting into this. I'm really curious where you pulled that from! I quoted you, pointed out why you were wrong, and now you're discrediting things, eh? Also you did imply the IQ test is a faulty method due to its margin of error. The margin is accounted for an irrelevant to this study. As I said before.
[QUOTE=scout1;37440199]See this is the thing. It's not going to, probably. But the study says it'll drop on average 8 points. You're saying it won't make a difference. It will. Now you've somehow reached and gotten discrediting into this. I'm really curious where you pulled that from! I quoted you, pointed out why you were wrong, and now you're discrediting things, eh? Also you did imply the IQ test is a faulty method due to its margin of error. The margin is accounted for an irrelevant to this study. As I said before.[/QUOTE] "Seriously this is an established method of science. It relies on logic and natural progression to discover new things. If you really think the scientific method (you know that thing we base all our studies on) is faulty, you should go to the media with your wondrous views" Ahem. Remember when I said you should read other people's posts? Yeah, scratch that - start by reading your own posts. We can go on about "implying" all day.
[QUOTE=Harry3;37438704]Nope [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_perception_disorder[/url] I have a mild form of it, its not fun.[/QUOTE] depends on the person I have a mild form and I love it
[QUOTE=Stopper;37440225]"Seriously this is an established method of science. It relies on logic and natural progression to discover new things. If you really think the scientific method (you know that thing we base all our studies on) is faulty, you should go to the media with your wondrous views" Ahem. Remember when I said you should read other people's posts? Yeah, scratch that - start by reading your own posts. We can go on about "implying" all day.[/QUOTE] "It does not make a difference" [because the margin of error]. As I said, yes it does. As I proved, yes it does. There is no fault in this use of the scientific method. Your opinion was that it was wrong due to mitigating factors. It is not. As above, this is an example of ridiculing. I believe you can classify this under 'hyperbole'
[QUOTE=scout1;37440245]"It does not make a difference" [because the margin of error]. As I said, yes it does. As I proved, yes it does. There is no fault in this use of the scientific method. Your opinion was that it was wrong due to mitigating factors. It is not. As above, this is an example of ridiculing. I believe you can classify this under 'hyperbole'[/QUOTE] Wow, you're working hard to not be on the same page as me. It doesn't make a difference because the drop is [I]small[/I]. [I]Smaller[/I] than the margin of error, not [I]because[/I] of the margin of error.
[QUOTE=Stopper;37440264]Wow, you're working hard to not be on the same page as me. It doesn't make a difference because the drop is [I]small[/I]. [I]Smaller[/I] than the margin of error, not [I]because[/I] of the margin of error.[/QUOTE] I'm p sure the study was to show that cannabis use in adolescents over a period of time will decrease IQ, not decrease IQ to an acceptable limit for Stopper the Facepunch poster to validate the test. I don't understand what point you are trying to make by saying that the drop is small.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;37440280]I'm p sure the study was to show that cannabis use in adolescents over a period of time will decrease IQ, not decrease IQ to an acceptable limit for Stopper the Facepunch poster to validate the test. I don't understand what point you are trying to make by saying that the drop is small.[/QUOTE] The point is that you don't turn into a husk of a person just because you smoke weed and your IQ dropped a couple of points. Even if you started smoking before you turned the magic 18 years.
[QUOTE=Stopper;37440264]Wow, you're working hard to not be on the same page as me. It doesn't make a difference because the drop is [I]small[/I]. [I]Smaller[/I] than the margin of error, not [I]because[/I] of the margin of error.[/QUOTE] Uh no, it still matters. 8 points if very significant. 8 points is more than half a standard deviation (Hint: The majority of the population falls within 1 standard deviation). Really I could get into a shitflinging contest with you all day, but you need to research statistics and I'm not teaching you. Here, have an entire article on the subject (and some informative snippets): [i] People with IQ's of 80-90 are a little on the slow side but may be found in fast-food restaurants, day-care centers, etc. They may also be found in unskilled jobs. About 16% of the population has IQ's in this range. People with IQ's of 90-110 generally occupy semi-skilled positions, including typists, receptionists, assembly line workers, and checkout clerks. They are able to keep up with the world, and comprise about 46% of the public. People with IQ's in the 110 to 120 range fill the skilled trades and include some tool and die makers, teachers, and Ph. D.'s among their ranks. They also make up 16% of the population. [/i] That means those 8 points bring you down from craftsman to janitor. [URL]http://hiqnews.megafoundation.org/Definition_of_IQ'.html[/URL]
[QUOTE=Stopper;37440316]The point is that you don't turn into a husk of a person just because you smoke weed and your IQ dropped a couple of points. Even if you started smoking before you turned the magic 18 years.[/QUOTE] I guess it's a good thing nobody implied that it did.
[QUOTE=scout1;37435411]do you understand what a scientific study is Seriously you are so full of shit[/QUOTE]I am simply stating my observation. I probably shouldn't have placed that "100% sure" there. I stated my opinion, and that was that cannabis wasn't the direct cause of the IQ decrease, but rather a secondary factor (it affects the subject in a way which, in turn, may cause the IQ decrease). I didn't mean to come off that I know this for a fact. Also, you seem to be hating on everyone else's opinions with a strong passion. It's nearly impossible to have an intelligent discussion with you since you immediately throw insults and and put your opinions above everyone else's.
[QUOTE=Bumbanut;37440394]I am simply stating my observation. I probably shouldn't have placed that "100% sure" there. I stated my opinion, and that was that cannabis wasn't the direct cause of the IQ decrease, but rather a secondary factor (it affects the subject in a way which, in turn, may cause the IQ decrease). I didn't mean to come off that I know this for a fact. Also, you seem to be hating on everyone else's opinions with a strong passion. It's nearly impossible to have an intelligent discussion with you since you immediately throw insults and and put your opinions above everyone else's.[/QUOTE] Your opinion is that a scientific study - a carefully controlled series of observations which take into account all mitigating factors - clearly ignored this vital piece of evidence. Guess how valid your opinion is [editline]28th August 2012[/editline] Also I will have an 'intelligent discussion' with you when you can list the vital processes of a scientific study. And then explain how those make it impossible for your opinion to be true.
[QUOTE=scout1;37440434]Your opinion is that a scientific study - a carefully controlled series of observations which take into account all mitigating factors - clearly ignored this vital piece of evidence. Guess how valid your opinion is [editline]28th August 2012[/editline] Also I will have an 'intelligent discussion' with you when you can list the vital processes of a scientific study. And then explain how those make it impossible for your opinion to be true.[/QUOTE]Scientific studies do not always yield 100% accurate results, in this case especially. They performed the study on 1,000 people in New Zealand. Clearly, this is not enough to conclude, with certainty, that all young people who smoke marijuana are in danger of "significant and irreversible reduction in their IQ". The article writer partially stated their own opinion based on that study. The article could have stated that "teenangers [b]may[/b] be at risk". What about those who scored higher on the IQ test (if there were any)? The vast majority of non-satire news articles in the world would not state "some teenagers who smoke pot notice an increase in their IQ". They will make a bias. If you provide me with actual research results, I will gladly discuss those with you and then we can conclude whether the article is heavily or lightly biased.
[QUOTE=Bumbanut;37440561]Scientific studies do not always yield 100% accurate results, in this case especially. They performed the study on 1,000 people in New Zealand. Clearly, this is not enough to conclude, with certainty, that all young people who smoke marijuana are in danger of "significant and irreversible reduction in their IQ". [/QUOTE] Hahahaha Thank you for proving my point. You do not understand what a sample is. [QUOTE=Bumbanut;37440561] The article writer partially stated their own opinion based on that study. The article could have stated that "teenangers [b]may[/b] be at risk". What about those who scored higher on the IQ test (if there were any)? The vast majority of non-satire news articles in the world would not state "some teenagers who smoke pot notice an increase in their IQ". They will make a bias. [/QUOTE] As opposed to 'some teenagers who smoke pot notice a decrease in their IQ'?? Go read the study. It empirically proves that smoking marijuana in adolescence has an effect on IQ. [QUOTE=Bumbanut;37440561] actual research results[/QUOTE] THIS SCIENTIFIC STUDY MEANS NOTHING BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE WHAT IT SAYS
haha didn't realize this study was done in new zealand. we must have alot of people with lower IQ's since surveys have shown something like over 50% of new zealands smoked weed when they were teens lol
Not suprised because this kid in my class smoked literally every day, and even went to his sixth form interview blazed and now he has like all D's and lower The article kind of twists it though, it makes it sound like marijuana makes you dumb, when it's kids who smoke it make it their priority over school and make themselves dumb
[QUOTE=FlashFireSix;37440614] The article kind of twists it though, it makes it sound like marijuana makes you dumb, when it's kids who smoke it make it their priority over school and make themselves dumb[/QUOTE] Bzzt. That is exactly what the study says. [i]That is what it was studying.[/i]
[QUOTE=scout1;37440590]Hahahaha Thank you for proving my point. You do not understand what a sample is. As opposed to 'some teenagers who smoke pot notice a decrease in their IQ'?? Go read the study. It empirically proves that smoking marijuana in adolescence has an effect on IQ. THIS SCIENTIFIC STUDY MEANS NOTHING BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE WHAT IT SAYS[/QUOTE]It is very difficult, if not impossible, to argue with you because you do not carefully read anything that I say. It seems that you assume that what I say is not valid and automatically attempt to subtly insult me. The article stated that "Young people who smoke cannabis run the risk of a significant and irreversible reduction in their IQ". But that might not be true for those who live in the United States, Russia or even China. That might not be true for those who come from highly educated families, or those who have bad genes, etcetera. I kindly asked you to provide me the raw results instead of the article itself. The article is not pure of opinion, but the study results are. I would not be surprised if the article simply made that conclusion because, for example, 700 out of 1,000 teenagers experienced an IQ drop. Also, my opinion is perfectly valid because marijuana is known to decrease the desire to work and study, which in turn, could potentially cause the decrease in IQ. I am not trying to say that it's the only factor, but it's very possible that it's a major one.
[QUOTE=scout1;37440622]Bzzt. That is exactly what the study says. [i]That is what it was studying.[/i][/QUOTE] I meant the title. [editline]28th August 2012[/editline] The title could of just been "Weed makes you dumb" for all it portrays to somebody skim reading
[QUOTE=Bumbanut;37440698] The article stated that "Young people who smoke cannabis run the risk of a significant and irreversible reduction in their IQ". But that might not be true for those who live in the United States, Russia or even China. That might not be true for those who come from highly educated families, or those who have bad genes, etcetera. [/QUOTE] I will say this again: It is a scientific study. All those things are ACCOUNTED FOR. Holy shit, seriously. This is the first thing you do. You make sure that the sample represents the entire population. [b]This is the very basis of a scientific study.[/b] Saying those are factors to be considered is absolutely stupid. [QUOTE=Bumbanut;37440698] I kindly asked you to provide me the raw results instead of the article itself. The article is not pure of opinion, but the study results are. I would not be surprised if the article simply made that conclusion because, for example, 700 out of 1,000 teenagers experienced an IQ drop. [/QUOTE] Seriously do you not understand how this science thing works or are you just confused [QUOTE=Bumbanut;37440698] Also, my opinion is perfectly valid because marijuana is known to decrease the desire to work and study, which in turn, could potentially cause the decrease in IQ. I am not trying to say that it's the only factor, but it's very possible that it's a major one.[/QUOTE] Small problem IT'S A STUDY You're not a scientist! These factors are taken into account. You are just going "but what iffff bluuh" and completely ignoring the whole SCIENCE part of the study. They did not grab people off the street and put em through IQ tests they measured carefully over 30+ years while accounting for other factors and deriving data from it.
[QUOTE=scout1;37439969] "They found that those who persistently used cannabis - smoking it at least four times a week year after year through their teens, 20s and, in some cases, their 30s - suffered a decline in their IQ."[/QUOTE] I don't see why you rated me dumb considering that sentence supports exactly what I said.
[QUOTE=tommyc225;37439714]So we're all flipping a shit over an average of 8 IQ points? Oh man[/QUOTE] 8 points is half a standard deviation. That's significant.
[QUOTE=scout1;37440768]I will say this again: It is a scientific study. All those things are ACCOUNTED FOR. Holy shit, seriously. This is the first thing you do. You make sure that the sample represents the entire population. [b]This is the very basis of a scientific study.[/b] Saying those are factors to be considered is absolutely stupid. Seriously do you not understand how this science thing works or are you just confused Small problem IT'S A STUDY You're not a scientist! These factors are taken into account. You are just going "but what iffff bluuh" and completely ignoring the whole SCIENCE part of the study. They did not grab people off the street and put em through IQ tests they measured carefully over 30+ years while accounting for other factors and deriving data from it.[/QUOTE]As I stated before, scientific studies are not 100% accurate. I can't help but ignore the scientific parts of the study, since the article provided to me has none of that. There are no numbers - it doesn't say "Exactly 800/1000 people tested had decrease in their IQ level", or "95% of the cannabis users had a decrease in their IQ". They have none of that. The article has quotes from multiple 'professionals' who state "Most of the users experienced the drop in IQ" or "I believe this is a good study". There is someone who states another opinion: "Although one should never be convinced by a single study, I take the findings very seriously." This is not a study to see the effects of cannabis use on the IQ of an individual, this is an article written based upon the study to see the effects of cannabis use on the IQ of an individual.
[QUOTE=Bumbanut;37440561]Scientific studies do not always yield 100% accurate results, in this case especially. They performed the study on 1,000 people in New Zealand. Clearly, this is not enough to conclude, with certainty, that all young people who smoke marijuana are in danger of "significant and irreversible reduction in their IQ". The article writer partially stated their own opinion based on that study. The article could have stated that "teenangers [b]may[/b] be at risk". What about those who scored higher on the IQ test (if there were any)? The vast majority of non-satire news articles in the world would not state "some teenagers who smoke pot notice an increase in their IQ". They will make a bias. If you provide me with actual research results, I will gladly discuss those with you and then we can conclude whether the article is heavily or lightly biased.[/QUOTE] Good grief weed advocates are on par with Global Warming denialists in terms of the amount of denial.
[QUOTE=Bumbanut;37440698]I kindly asked you to provide me the raw results instead of the article itself. The article is not pure of opinion, but the study results are. I would not be surprised if the article simply made that conclusion because, for example, 700 out of 1,000 teenagers experienced an IQ drop.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/08/22/1206820109.abstract?sid=d05a5356-63ca-4a8b-bd28-83b91902a23b[/url] Here is the abstract, the PDF itself is behind a paywall.
IQ, the greatest and most accurate measure of intellect known to mankind [I]lol [/I]these kinds of articles are interesting but i wish they'd specify that it were more focused around [quote]Persistent cannabis use was associated with neuropsychological decline broadly across domains of functioning, even after controlling for years of education[/quote] mm yeah give me those dumb ratings my IQ is 5000 you cannot dispute anything
[QUOTE=Bumbanut;37440874]As I stated before, scientific studies are not 100% accurate.[/quote] no one claimed they are, but when you have a large sample size like this and rigorous statistical analysis, they're [I]pretty darn accurate[/I]. unless you have a specific reason why you think it's wrong, you'd best just go with what it says instead of aimlessly conjecturing. [quote]I can't help but ignore the scientific parts of the study, since the article provided to me has none of that. There are no numbers - it doesn't say "Exactly 800/1000 people tested had decrease in their IQ level", or "95% of the cannabis users had a decrease in their IQ". They have none of that. The article has quotes from multiple 'professionals' who state "Most of the users experienced the drop in IQ" or "I believe this is a good study". There is someone who states another opinion: "Although one should never be convinced by a single study, I take the findings very seriously." This is not a study to see the effects of cannabis use on the IQ of an individual, this is an article written based upon the study to see the effects of cannabis use on the IQ of an individual.[/QUOTE] The BBC is not a scientific journal. The lay public doesn't know what a p-value is, they're not going to go into specific detail like that. I've provided you with the abstract of the study, if you want you can fork over $10 to read it yourself (yeah it's atrocious in this day and age but what are you going to do).
[QUOTE=Bumbanut;37440874]As I stated before, scientific studies are not 100% accurate. I can't help but ignore the scientific parts of the study, since the article provided to me has none of that. There are no numbers - it doesn't say "Exactly 800/1000 people tested had decrease in their IQ level", or "95% of the cannabis users had a decrease in their IQ". They have none of that. The article has quotes from multiple 'professionals' who state "Most of the users experienced the drop in IQ" or "I believe this is a good study". There is someone who states another opinion: "Although one should never be convinced by a single study, I take the findings very seriously." This is not a study to see the effects of cannabis use on the IQ of an individual, this is an article written based upon the study to see the effects of cannabis use on the IQ of an individual.[/QUOTE] [url]http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-08-adolescent-pot-mental-deficits.html[/url] [url]http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/08/study-pot-use-before-age-18-harms-iq-attention-memory/1#.UDzRqdZlQzJ[/url] [url]http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/08/22/1206820109.abstract[/url]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;37440889]Good grief weed advocates are on par with Global Warming denialists in terms of the amount of denial.[/QUOTE]Who said I was denying anything? I know people who heavily use it and are noticeably declining in intelligence and sanity, and I also know those who regularly use it (among other drugs) and are performing better and better in school. [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37440946][url]http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/08/22/1206820109.abstract?sid=d05a5356-63ca-4a8b-bd28-83b91902a23b[/url] Here is the abstract, the PDF itself is behind a paywall.[/QUOTE]Thank you very much. [QUOTE=scout1;37440967][url]http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-08-adolescent-pot-mental-deficits.html[/url] [url]http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/08/study-pot-use-before-age-18-harms-iq-attention-memory/1#.UDzRqdZlQzJ[/url] [url]http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/08/22/1206820109.abstract[/url][/QUOTE] The first two are still opinionated articles, but thank you for the last one. [url=http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2012/08/23/1206820109.DCSupplemental]Here is what I found[/url]
[QUOTE=Bobie;37440950]IQ, the greatest and most accurate measure of intellect known to mankind [I]lol[/quote] IQ denialism would be hilarious if it weren't so prevalent.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37441005]IQ denialism would be hilarious if it weren't so prevalent.[/QUOTE] because general intelligence is an objective factor in the conditioned mind right
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