Mass Effect 3 Ending Scandel Makes Kevin Levine Sad - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35227873]two things still bother me joker saying he can hardly walk in ME1 and then dancing in ME3[/QUOTE] I can answer that one: Cerberus augmented Joker's legs to help offset his condition and enable a little more mobility.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35227860]well technically it wasn't because they wrapped up nothing whatsoever, but whatever Er, that's the thing. It [I]did[/I] have the same structure. You still gathered up a force of good goods to fight the big bads and then you fight. You encounter dilemmas, you make decisions, and then the fight commences. But whereas in ME2 those decisions had a heavy impact in how the ending played out, in ME3 they're nothing but numbers that unlock the multiple choice question answers at the end. They have no tangible emotional impact, and as such the time you spend gathering them and interacting with them is wasted. It's like having a romance end with "Shepard, I've finally come to acknowledge my love for you" and then you never exchange another line of dialogue. Instead you can now buy weapons for half price. It's just weird.[/QUOTE] the game itself was a wrap up more than the last few minutes obviously. in the battle leading to the last area and parts before that you do see all of the people you have gathered working together etc. it's not as specific as ME2 but there are many many more factors and factions in ME3 than there are characters in the last part of ME2 [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Mingebox;35227879]You should see how many people think that the ending is really a fight inside Shepard's mind because he's been indoctrinated, and it's all a clever PR stunt by Bioware to reveal the true ending later. That's right, the ending is so bad it has driven people mad.[/QUOTE] lol you have no idea [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35227873]two things still bother me joker saying he can hardly walk in ME1 and then dancing in ME3 and the genophage turning from making krogan die in stillbirth to making krogan infertile to making them die in stillbirth again[/QUOTE] well it's a genetic disease being dispersed from a giant funnel thingy. I'd assume one virus would just be designed to "override" the other.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35227881]the game itself was a wrap up more than the last few minutes obviously. in the battle leading to the last area and parts before that you do see all of the people you have gathered working together etc. it's not as specific as ME2 but there are many many more factors and factions in ME3 than there are characters in the last part of ME2[/QUOTE] Right, but the issue with this is that, with the Mass Relays destroyed, it feels like all the good (or bad) we did is irrelevant. Sure, I might have given Rannoch back to the quarian people and made the geth fully sentient...but if I choose "Destroy" which has been our goal all along, then the geth all die, and the thousands and thousands of quarians in the armada will never see home again. Same goes for Wrex, who will never make it back to Tuchanga, etc.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35227881]the game itself was a wrap up more than the last few minutes obviously. in the battle leading to the last area and parts before that you do see all of the people you have gathered working together etc. it's not as specific as ME2 but there are many many more factors and factions in ME3 than there are characters in the last part of ME2 [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] lol you have no idea[/QUOTE] Except, as I said, they have no tangible impact on the ending. In the end what they do has nothing to do with what you do, and really doesn't help all that much except in that it unlocks the multiple choice wheel. Another problem there, in that the game asserts certain endings are "better" than others due to the fact that you need to get more assets to get certain ones, ruining the philosophical neutrality that is necessary when dealing with such subjects, but whatever. [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35227911]Right, but the issue with this is that, with the Mass Relays destroyed, it feels like all the good (or bad) we did is irrelevant. Sure, I might have given Rannoch back to the quarian people and made the geth fully sentient...but if I choose "Destroy" which has been our goal all along, then the geth all die, and the thousands and thousands of quarians in the armada will never see home again. Same goes for Wrex, who will never make it back to Tuchanga, etc.[/QUOTE] doesn't matter if you get to choose the color of your house if you have to nuke it at the end of the day

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35227911]Right, but the issue with this is that, with the Mass Relays destroyed, it feels like all the good (or bad) we did is irrelevant. Sure, I might have given Rannoch back to the quarian people and made the geth fully sentient...but if I choose "Destroy" which has been our goal all along, then the geth all die, and the thousands and thousands of quarians in the armada will never see home again. Same goes for Wrex, who will never make it back to Tuchanga, etc.[/QUOTE] the thing I don't understand about this thinking is how based on assumption it is. so many times I hear from people (not saying this is you! We cool, bro!!!!) "we don't learn anything in the ending!" but they make these crazy assumptions anyway. You really don't know what happens, so it's pretty pointless to speculate on it to such an extent, or with such a one sided view. and obviously if you've been helping the geth, don't pick destroy. If you don't like the geth, then pick destroy. Even if those guys can't return to their homeworlds, it is far better than dying in my eyes.

[QUOTE=thisispain;35227761]blame the marketing department. i don't know why they'd say such things considering anyone who played and enjoyed ME1 or 2 was bound to buy ME3 anyway.[/QUOTE] More like blame the game's producer, who gets quoted frequently as making promises that were literally flat out broken. Ken makes an argument I've seen a lot, and that's that fans are displeased because it's not [I]their[/I] ending that is exact catered to them, and while this argument is reasonable it falls apart under the fact that the ending is just flat out poorly written no matter what. As well, it breaks not only a specific promise made by the Devs or marketing pre-release, but the whole precedent of the series. ME2 had an ending where your decisions and actions added up to the ending that you created for yourself. The idea of ME3, the sequel coming out a mere two years later from the same developer, not doing that ([I]especially[/I] if it were promised) is ludicrous and unfair. Should they have to change it? No. They're the authors, we're not entitled to anything. But it doesn't make it any less reprehensible and shitty. As well, to anyone who says "There's no way they could have covered every avenue and character's fate post-ending", I humbly submit to you the good entries in the Fallout series. Fallouts 1, 2, and NV end with slides that give you endings for every faction, every companion you ever meet or have, and every major location you visit. Not to mention a grand slide explaining the overall fate of the big picture. The ending variations are immense, and your decisions as the player influence each one. NV's DLC's even have this. So no, it's hardly impossible for ME to have done it. On the topic of endings and Fallout, it's entirely possible that Bioware just wanted to take the "Shittiest RPG Ending" trophy from Bethesda and Fallout 3. However, Bioware's at least didn't have a two plus two simple plot hole that they filled with "fate". Yes, Beth retconned it. I don't care. The vanilla game's ending is beyond atrocious (as is the majority of it's plot).

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35227923]Except, as I said, they have no tangible impact on the ending. In the end what they do has nothing to do with what you do, and really doesn't help all that much except in that it unlocks the multiple choice wheel. Another problem there, in that the game asserts certain endings are "better" than others due to the fact that you need to get more assets to get certain ones, ruining the philosophical neutrality that is necessary when dealing with such subjects, but whatever. [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] doesn't matter if you get to choose the color of your house if you have to nuke it at the end of the day[/QUOTE] but that score does effect your ending, and it doesn't just unlock the other ending options, but also changes how effective the choice is, etc. It may seem unlocking options makes the options seem "right" and "wrong" but it depends on how you play the game more than anything. If you have a super low war score, chances are you haven't been playing in such a way that your shepard would chose the synthesis ending lol

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35227935]the thing I don't understand about this thinking is how based on assumption it is. so many times I hear from people (not saying this is you! We cool, bro!!!!) "we don't learn anything in the ending!" but they make these crazy assumptions anyway. You really don't know what happens, so it's pretty pointless to speculate on it to such an extent, or with such a one sided view. and obviously if you've been helping the geth, don't pick destroy. If you don't like the geth, then pick destroy. Even if those guys can't return to their homeworlds, it is far better than dying in my eyes.[/QUOTE] Well, here's the counter. We know for a [B]fact[/B] that galactic society was utterly dependent on the Mass Relays and the Citadel. They were the very foundation for society as we knew it. With those gone, the entire galactic community is disconnected from each other and there is no feasible way to just travel at standard FTL (due to the need to discharge static buildup from FTL). Outlying colonies will be completely cut off; many may simply starve to death if they depended on imports. It's not really much speculation to say that destroying the foundation of society will result in a lot of problems, especially when the in-universe canon backs it up. Also, if I don't choose "Destroy," then I can choose control, with makes me the Illusive Man, or I can choose Synthesis, which is bullshit SpaceMagic if I've ever seen it. Not much for options here.

[QUOTE=Spooter;35227937]More like blame the game's producer, who gets quoted frequently as making promises that were literally flat out broken. Ken makes an argument I've seen a lot, and that's that fans are displeased because it's not [I]their[/I] ending that is exact catered to them, and while this argument is reasonable it falls apart under the fact that the ending is just flat out poorly written no matter what. As well, it breaks not only a specific promise made by the Devs or marketing pre-release, but the whole precedent of the series. ME2 had an ending where your decisions and actions added up to the ending that you created for yourself. The idea of ME3, the sequel coming out a mere two years later from the same developer, not doing that ([I]especially[/I] if it were promised) is ludicrous and unfair. Should they have to change it? No. They're the authors, we're not entitled to anything. But it doesn't make it any less reprehensible and shitty. As well, to anyone who says "There's no way they could have covered every avenue and character's fate post-ending", I humbly submit to you the good entries in the Fallout series. Fallouts 1, 2, and NV end with slides that give you endings for every faction, every companion you ever meet or have, and every major location you visit. Not to mention a grand slide explaining the overall fate of the big picture. The ending variations are immense, and your decisions as the player influence each one. NV's DLC's even have this. So no, it's hardly impossible for ME to have done it. On the topic of endings and Fallout, it's entirely possible that Bioware just wanted to take the "Shittiest RPG Ending" trophy from Bethesda and Fallout 3. However, Bioware's at least didn't have a two plus two simple plot hole that they filled with "fate". Yes, Beth retconned it. I don't care. The vanilla game's ending is beyond atrocious (as is the majority of it's plot).[/QUOTE] everyone complained about those endings. it was more appropriate for that game, however. you can chose to entirely avoid so much in that game that to break things down any other way would've been silly or beyond impossible. it would have been wildly inappropriate to end mass effect in such a fashion in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35227935]the thing I don't understand about this thinking is how based on assumption it is. so many times I hear from people (not saying this is you! We cool, bro!!!!) "we don't learn anything in the ending!" but they make these crazy assumptions anyway. You really don't know what happens, so it's pretty pointless to speculate on it to such an extent, or with such a one sided view. and obviously if you've been helping the geth, don't pick destroy. If you don't like the geth, then pick destroy. Even if those guys can't return to their homeworlds, it is far better than dying in my eyes.[/QUOTE] We use the information previously given to us to make predictions. Without mass relay travel, galactic society will turn into the age of strife from 40K. That's just how it is. No food, no goverment, no scientific advancement. Unless Synthesis makes it so that the races of the galaxy can survive by shoving their dicks in electric sockets, or Shepard has the Reapers deliver a metric fuckton of "Sorry" fruit baskets to the planets of the galaxy.

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35227961]Well, here's the counter. We know for a [B]fact[/B] that galactic society was utterly dependent on the Mass Relays and the Citadel. They were the very foundation for society as we knew it. With those gone, the entire galactic community is disconnected from each other and there is no feasible way to just travel at standard FTL (due to the need to discharge static buildup from FTL). Outlying colonies will be completely cut off; many may simply starve to death if they depended on imports. It's not really much speculation to say that destroying the foundation of society will result in a lot of problems, especially when the in-universe canon backs it up. Also, if I don't choose "Destroy," then I can choose control, with makes me the Illusive Man, or I can choose Synthesis, which is bullshit SpaceMagic if I've ever seen it. Not much for options here.[/QUOTE] I don't see how "space magic" makes it a bad option, and choosing control doesn't just "make you the illusive man" when shep says illusive man was right during that last cutscene regardless you don't know if the relays actually were destroyed either, if they couldn't be rebuilt, etc etc etc etc. it really is just speculation going on for miles based on one little thing.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35227983]everyone complained about those endings. it was more appropriate for that game, however. you can chose to entirely avoid so much in that game that to break things down any other way would've been silly or beyond impossible. it would have been wildly inappropriate to end mass effect in such a fashion in my opinion.[/QUOTE] that's why DA:O's ending was so fucking cool End all of the major plot lines with actual gameplay, then explain the more minor details before the credits in epilogue format.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35227989]We use the information previously given to us to make predictions. Without mass relay travel, galactic society will turn into the age of strife from 40K. That's just how it is. No food, no goverment, no scientific advancement. Unless Synthesis makes it so that the races of the galaxy can survive by shoving their dicks in electric sockets, or Shepard has the Reapers deliver a metric fuckton of "Sorry" fruit baskets to the planets of the galaxy.[/QUOTE] when you yourself say you don't know what happens at all at the end, who's to say that doesn't happen

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35227996]I don't see how "space magic" makes it a bad option, and choosing control doesn't just "make you the illusive man" when shep says illusive man was right during that last cutscene regardless you don't know if the relays actually were destroyed either, if they couldn't be rebuilt, etc etc etc etc. it really is just speculation going on for miles based on one little thing.[/QUOTE] I watched the relays explode in front of me, and the StarChild told me they would blow up. I'm quite positive they no longer exist.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35227999]that's why DA:O's ending was so fucking cool End all of the major plot lines with actual gameplay, then explain the more minor details before the credits in epilogue format.[/QUOTE] that was just one game though, not an epic space trilogy etc, you can't really compare them like that. even beyond that, bioware obviously chose not to go that route, and for a reason. [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35228010]I watched the relays explode in front of me, and the StarChild told me they would blow up. I'm quite positive they no longer exist.[/QUOTE] doesn't it just show one relay shoot fire everywhere and turn red? [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] and again, couldn't they just make new ones?

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35227996]I don't see how "space magic" makes it a bad option, and choosing control doesn't just "make you the illusive man" when shep says illusive man was right during that last cutscene regardless you don't know if the relays actually were destroyed either, if they couldn't be rebuilt, etc etc etc etc. it really is just speculation going on for miles based on one little thing.[/QUOTE] uhhhh you see them blow up not sure how you can interpret that differently and rebuilding the relays would take tens of thousands of years, assuming they even have the scientific and material resources to do so anywhere in the galaxy.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35228015]doesn't it just show one relay shoot fire everywhere and turn red? [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] and again, couldn't they just make new ones?[/QUOTE] They definitely blow up. And we don't have the technology or understanding to make new ones.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35228015]that was just one game though, not an epic space trilogy etc, you can't really compare them like that. even beyond that, bioware obviously chose not to go that route, and for a reason. [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] doesn't it just show one relay shoot fire everywhere and turn red? [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] and again, couldn't they just make new ones?[/QUOTE] why can't I what makes it so they couldn't do that what is the key difference that I'm missing here

in arrival the relay just falls apart then goes off like a nuke, the normandy isn't chased by flames or anything. [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35228040]why can't I what makes it so they couldn't do that what is the key difference that I'm missing here[/QUOTE] well it's apples and oranges. feel free to compare them but they're not the same so it's kinda pointless.

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35228036]They definitely blow up. And we don't have the technology or understanding to make new ones.[/QUOTE] The Protheans made one, remember? the problem is that there's no way to distribute new relays because traveling conventionally across the galaxy would take, as I said, tens of thousands of years.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35228041]in arrival the relay just falls apart then goes off like a nuke, the normandy isn't chased by flames or anything.[/QUOTE] That relay also destroyed the entire system, resulting in the death of 306,000 "innocent" batarians.

couldn't you send a relay through a relay or something? or do you need two? don't really know how they work.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35228047]The Protheans made one, remember? the problem is that there's no way to distribute new relays because traveling conventionally across the galaxy would take, as I said, tens of thousands of years.[/QUOTE] True enough, but I'm pretty sure the Citadel goes explody as well. Also, we did the math and, assuming you didn't have to stop or discharge FTL (which, sadly we do), it would take about 23-27 years to traverse from one end of the galaxy to another. Still a while.

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35228052]That relay also destroyed the entire system, resulting in the death of 306,000 "innocent" batarians.[/QUOTE] what I'm saying is the explosions seemed very different. but I don't know for sure I really do hope they go into what happened after in DLC or something just to clear that up in the broadest sense.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35228041]in arrival the relay just falls apart then goes off like a nuke, the normandy isn't chased by flames or anything. [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] well it's apples and oranges. feel free to compare them but they're not the same so it's kinda pointless.[/QUOTE] an apples and oranges are entirely comparable one has a smooth skin and a crisp inside and the other has a spongy wrinkled skin with a sinewy and juicy inside there now tell me what the key differences are between Mass Effect and Dragon Age

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35228059]True enough, but I'm pretty sure the Citadel goes explody as well. Also, we did the math and, assuming you didn't have to stop or discharge FTL (which, sadly we do), it would take about 23-27 years to traverse from one end of the galaxy to another. Still a while.[/QUOTE] true enough, but that's what hypersleep and all of those things are for i guess

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35228055]couldn't you send a relay through a relay or something? or do you need two? don't really know how they work.[/QUOTE] need two brohame see how when you actually know how the ME universe works the endings suck more

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35228063]an apples and oranges are entirely comparable one has a smooth skin and a crisp inside and the other has a spongy wrinkled skin with a sinewy and juicy inside there now tell me what the key differences are between Mass Effect and Dragon Age[/QUOTE] one is a medieval fantasy game and one is a sci fi trilogy? I think the first DA game sucked so I'm not the one to consult on that

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35228069]true enough, but that's what hypersleep and all of those things are for i guess[/QUOTE] except you need fuel to travel at those speeds so it still wouldn't work

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35228074]need two brohame see how when you actually know how the ME universe works the endings suck more[/QUOTE] again just assuming, and "sucking" is subjective. even if the races are stranded, you're looking at it as glass half empty. as long as someone survived, shep beat the reapers. [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35228081]except you need fuel to travel at those speeds so it still wouldn't work[/QUOTE] okay then