Mass Effect 3 Ending Scandel Makes Kevin Levine Sad - Polidicks

It isn't just the straight up lack of quality, it's also the lies from people prior to the release from inside Bioware stating that your choice would hugely and vastly affect the end. Not only would your choice affect the end but one dude even stated that the endings would be almost be indistinguishable from eachother. I don't see J.K. Rowling or anybody else pulling any shit like that. Then again a novel writer wouldn't release details of the ending, because writing novels is [B]ENTIRELY FUCKING DIFFERENT[/B], in a game you're the main character, the story is supposed to revolve around you especially when the game is considered a quote "choice-based game". Comparing them only makes me realize how fucking stupid some of these people are, this is a game built on [B]CHOICE[/B] yet choice had no baring on how the whole thing panned out, gg nice fucking work.

[QUOTE=thisispain;35226387]if they change it it's an even bigger insult. they didn't have the testicles to stick with their own shitty ending? why even do it in the first place?[/QUOTE] right, thus the comparison to lucas changing things in Star Wars. It's a disgrace in that scenario, not because he is making something good "worse" by adding little things (that really don't change ANY events in the film) but because it ruins the integrity and the original vision of the movie.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226326]games aren't art it's official guys! Why do you get to decide that when you didn't make it, you had literally nothing to do with its creation or development? Just because it has a codex they can't have an ending that is very, very open to interpretation? Great.[/QUOTE] Calling Mass Effect art is about the same as calling Star Wars art. Is Star Wars art? It could be considered art. But that doesn't in anyway negate the fact that as an ending for a game that lets you make all the choices the ending for ME3 was homogeneous and shoddily done. Being art doesn't make up for shit writing.

If ME3 is art, then it's really bad art. Analogies are not arguments by themselves.

[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35226401]It isn't just the straight up lack of quality, it's also the lies from people prior to the release from inside Bioware stating that your choice would hugely and vastly affect the end. Not only would your choice affect the end but one dude even stated that the endings would be almost be indistinguishable from eachother. I don't see J.K. Rowling or anybody else pulling any shit like that. Then again a novel writer wouldn't release details of the ending, because writing novels is [B]ENTIRELY FUCKING DIFFERENT[/B], in a game you're the main character, the story is supposed to revolve around you especially when the game is considered a quote "choice-based game". Comparing them only makes me realize how fucking stupid some of these people are, this is a game built on CHOICE yet choice had no baring on how the whole thing panned out, gg nice fucking work.[/QUOTE] every choice still lead you down the same path with different variables. You know no matter what you do you go to the same planets, do the same missions, just with a few changed variables. It's an illusion that you're doing what you want, making "truly" significant choices. and with the point of being indistinguishable, yes they are if you think about the actual events following the ending. you just don't see them.

[QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;35226412]Being art doesn't make up for shit writing.[/QUOTE] no the point is that a piece of art is something you value for the experience and take at what it is in the name of artistic vision. a consumer product is something that is valued based on utility.

[QUOTE=thisispain;35226440]no the point is that a piece of art is something you value for the experience and take at what it is in the name of artistic vision. a consumer product is something that is valued based on utility.[/QUOTE] Things aren't cut and dry art or consumer product. Irregardless of whether it's art or consumer product. It's still shit writing. It's over all categorization is not going to change that fact. [QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226438]every choice still lead you down the same path with different variables. You know no matter what you do you go to the same planets, do the same missions, just with a few changed variables. It's an illusion that you're doing what you want, making "truly" significant choices. and with the point of being indistinguishable, yes they are if you think about the actual events following the ending. you just don't see them.[/QUOTE] I think the endings would have been better overall and better received if you saw the impact of your final decision on the galaxy as a whole. The endings would have been distinguishable and at least you would have gotten a somewhat satisfying Deus Ex: HR style ending. Instead players got the same cinematic with different colored explosions.

[QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;35226412]Calling Mass Effect art is about the same as calling Star Wars art. Is Star Wars art? It could be considered art. But that doesn't in anyway negate the fact that as an ending for a game that lets you make all the choices the ending for ME3 was homogeneous and shoddily done. Being art doesn't make up for shit writing.[/QUOTE] you're right, essentially, but it also means that the people "watching the movie" have no right to demand a different ending, or a re-write, etc. and yes above I call star wars art. movies are art. isn't this an established fact..?

[QUOTE=thisispain;35226440]no the point is that a piece of art is something you value for the experience and take at what it is in the name of artistic vision. [/QUOTE] you lost me what are you trying to say here?

[QUOTE=Mon;35226460]you lost me what are you trying to say here?[/QUOTE] art is something you experience not something you consume

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226367]It depends on how you look at the ending. If you think the ending should've literally shown the effects of all you've done, then you're right, it was unrelated. However I look at it as a choice to that solidifies your decisions through out the game, with each choice having ties to other key decisions made in through ME to ME3, with the extent to which your choice is effective depending on your war score thingy which is dependent on your choices in ME3 which are dependent on your choices in the previous two games. If you choose to only see that bar as an "arbitrary number" and don't think the ending was fulfilling because it didn't explain everything, and because you chose to look up the other endings, spoiling the significance of your own, that is on you.[/QUOTE] Except the choices didn't matter since the ending is the same to all of them?

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226161]how can a series be torn apart by the very people that made it? if you don't like the ending, just don't buy their future products or make an ending of your own instead of just complaining you may as well be telling Valve to change end the of episode 2 because you didn't like the fact Eli died, or a band to change the lyrics to a song because they upset you even if it is the "majority"'s opinion, it is still not your creation, just something you participated in video games are not food, they are art.[/QUOTE] I'm tired of people like you, it seems it's become rapidly clear that because people won't actually complain about the state of their games that the video game industry is being raped up the ass by these huge game industries. It's turning into another 'fast-food' industry similar to what the film industry has developed into, it's becoming void of passion and simply a place to churn out action-packed popcorn content to the masses without any innovation, soon we will probably have the same sequel and remake bullshit that happens in the film industry (actually that's happening already in some areas). Thank God that atleast with video-games indie development is actually possible otherwise we truly would be fucked. The reason it's getting to this state is people like you just go "oh fucking well I'll purchase the game still" that these people still receive money and only ramp up their shenanigans the next year. Just look at Biowares disgusting use of DLC where it wasn't even Downloadable Content but essentially content on the disk which should already be yours because you purchased said disk. Not even to mention the fact that the ending or continuation of the story atleast might take place in DLC, so you're not even getting closure in the complete purchase of your game, imagine a movie asking your to pay extra to see what happens 5 minutes after the credits roll. So no I'm not just going to roll over and let them fuck me over I'm actually going to call them out on their bullshit and not purchase this game, which I haven't done even considering I loved the series (albeit loved 1 more then 2). Because if nobody does then essentially they'll get that bit smarter and more cunning each year and how far they can push the limits. Then when it comes to the point where you need DLC for every fucking piece of your game, depressingly akin to the satire game 'DLC Quest'. Then they won't give a shit because they'll be richer then ever and running to the bank with all your hard-earned cash. All you're doing by not boycotting them is letting them know that what they're doing is perfectly acceptable financially, and that's what matters because when everything's said and done they're just another bloody company they don't give a crap about the ethics of the situation, just if it remains increasingly profitable then damn right they'll do it.

[QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;35226456]Things aren't cut and dry art or consumer product. Irregardless of whether it's art or consumer product. It's still shit writing. It's over all categorization is not going to change that fact.[/QUOTE] the idea is how the person perceives the work. if something is art then shit writing becomes a notion of subjective quantification, akin to me saying Radiohead has shitty writing. if it's a consumer product then it's shitty writing because the person is not capable of using it to its full utility, from there coming the argument that it's shit writing because it doesn't explain or resolve in a manner that it is supposed to. you can't have both because they are contradictory. also, irregardless, really?

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226459]you're right, essentially, but it also means that the people "watching the movie" have no right to demand a different ending, or a re-write, etc. and yes above I call star wars art. movies are art. isn't this an established fact..?[/QUOTE] I don't think people have any right to demand they change the ending. It's already done. The story's been told. I said earlier that once it's been told that's it, it can't be undone without ruining the whole thing. I do however think it's ridiculous to hide behind the guise that because it may be art that it's okay to be have a poorly done ending. [QUOTE=thisispain;35226501]the idea is how the person perceives the work. if something is art then shit writing becomes a notion of subjective quantification, akin to me saying Radiohead has shitty writing. if it's a consumer product then it's shitty writing because the person is not capable of using it to its full utility, from there coming the argument that it's shit writing because it doesn't explain or resolve in a manner that it is supposed to. you can't have both because they are contradictory. also, irregardless, really?[/QUOTE] Sorry about the irregardless, it's a bad habit I get called out on fairly often. Whether a consumer product or art, the writing in terms of utility or experience is going to be a notion of subjective quantification either way. Being art doesn't absolve it of its faults. You can't throw an art blanket over a game and explain away all it's short comings.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226465]art is something you experience not something you consume[/QUOTE] i'm risking sounding like the most uncultured swine in the room here, but i still don't see how that means anything how can you say that with such certainty, especially over a topic as subjective as art?

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226161]how can a series be torn apart by the very people that made it? if you don't like the ending, just don't buy their future products or make an ending of your own instead of just complaining you may as well be telling Valve to change end the of episode 2 because you didn't like the fact Eli died, or a band to change the lyrics to a song because they upset you even if it is the "majority"'s opinion, it is still not your creation, just something you participated in video games are not food, they are art.[/QUOTE] Eli dying wasn't riddled with plotholes, didn't completely flip off lore, didn't kick players in the teeth and flip them the bird, and valve never promised 16 different endings that would be affected by the player's choices, like BIOWARE did.

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;35226474]Except the choices didn't matter since the ending is the same to all of them?[/QUOTE] which choices are you referring to? the last choices? well those matter as seen here [url]http://www.ign.com/wikis/mass-effect-3/Endings[/url]

[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35226484]I'm tired of people like you, it seems it's become rapidly clear that because people won't actually complain about the state of their games that the video game industry is being raped up the ass by these huge game industries.[/QUOTE] Mass Effect, bad ending or not, is still a huge step forward for videogames so the notion that we have to complain or else games get "raped up the ass" is meaningless.

[QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;35226505]I don't think people have any right to demand they change the ending. It's already done. The story's been told. I said earlier that once it's been told that's it, it can't be undone without ruining the whole thing. I do however think it's ridiculous to hide behind the guise that because it may be art that it's okay to be have a poorly done ending.[/QUOTE] Uh How is rewriting the shit, rushed, badly thought-out ending they put in going to undo the whole thing?

[QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;35226505] I do however think it's ridiculous to hide behind the guise that because it may be art that it's okay to be have a poorly done ending.[/QUOTE] no-one's hiding behind anything.

[QUOTE=Mon;35226511]i'm risking sounding like the most uncultured swine in the room here, but i still don't see how that means anything how can you say that with such certainty, especially over a topic as subjective as art?[/QUOTE] because that is what art is about and what differentiates it from a tool, isn't it?

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226517]which choices are you referring to? the last choices? well those matter as seen here [url]http://www.ign.com/wikis/mass-effect-3/Endings[/url][/QUOTE] You see, when Bioware says choices, they mean all the choices in every game, NOT the last choices.

[QUOTE=Mon;35226511]i'm risking sounding like the most uncultured swine in the room here, but i still don't see how that means anything how can you say that with such certainty, especially over a topic as subjective as art?[/QUOTE] an apple as a product is not art. the aesthetics, function, or meaning of an apple can be art, but a store-bought apple by itself isn't art.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226407]right, thus the comparison to lucas changing things in Star Wars. It's a disgrace in that scenario, not because he is making something good "worse" by adding little things (that really don't change ANY events in the film) but because it ruins the integrity and the original vision of the movie.[/QUOTE] Changing Star Wars and ME's endings are polar opposites. Fans regard the old Star Wars movies as sacred canon. Players regard ME3's ending as the worst thing to happen to the gaming industry so far this decade.

[QUOTE=Strongbad;35226516]Eli dying wasn't riddled with plotholes, didn't completely flip off lore, didn't kick players in the teeth and flip them the bird, and valve never promised 16 different endings that would be affected by the player's choices, like BIOWARE did.[/QUOTE] if you hadn't been promised that the ending would be okay? lol. that really doesn't change anything. "bioware lied" is a fair assessment but you can't say "the end is bad BECAUSE bioware lied about it" [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sector 7;35226545]Changing Star Wars and ME's endings are polar opposites. Fans regard the old Star Wars movies as sacred canon. Players regard ME3's ending as the worst thing to happen to the gaming industry so far this decade.[/QUOTE] Ridiculous. You totally missed the point of my post and are using ridiculous hyperbole [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Strongbad;35226530]You see, when Bioware says choices, they mean all the choices in every game, NOT the last choices.[/QUOTE] what? I don't know what bioware said about anything. I just played the games.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226527]because that is what art is about and what differentiates it from a tool, isn't it?[/QUOTE] don't think i agree with you on that i don't think that art is about anything. it's just a weird quirk that us people have that makes us produce weird shit for fun. if we don't get much fun out of it, or it doesn't give us a good reaction, we say we don't like it, and label it as bad art. or at least that's the way i see it. i could be wrong.

[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35226484]I'm tired of people like you, it seems it's become rapidly clear that because people won't actually complain about the state of their games that the video game industry is being raped up the ass by these huge game industries. It's turning into another 'fast-food' industry similar to what the film industry has developed into, it's becoming void of passion and simply a place to churn out action-packed popcorn content to the masses without any innovation, soon we will probably have the same sequel and remake bullshit that happens in the film industry (actually that's happening already in some areas). Thank God that atleast with video-games indie development is actually possible otherwise we truly would be fucked. The reason it's getting to this state is people like you just go "oh fucking well I'll purchase the game still" that these people still receive money and only ramp up their shenanigans the next year. Just look at Biowares disgusting use of DLC where it wasn't even Downloadable Content but essentially content on the disk which should already be yours because you purchased said disk. Not even to mention the fact that the ending or continuation of the story atleast might take place in DLC, so you're not even getting closure in the complete purchase of your game, imagine a movie asking your to pay extra to see what happens 5 minutes after the credits roll. So no I'm not just going to roll over and let them fuck me over I'm actually going to call them out on their bullshit and not purchase this game, which I haven't done even considering I loved the series (albeit loved 1 more then 2). Because if nobody does then essentially they'll get that bit smarter and more cunning each year and how far they can push the limits. Then when it comes to the point where you need DLC for every fucking piece of your game, depressingly akin to the satire game 'DLC Quest'. Then they won't give a shit because they'll be richer then ever and running to the bank with all your hard-earned cash. All you're doing by not boycotting them is letting them know that what they're doing is perfectly acceptable financially, and that's what matters because they're after all a company they don't give a crap about the ethics, if it remains increasingly profitable then damn right they'll do it.[/QUOTE] you're entirely misinformed about the on disc DLC, and you are just making a completely baseless assumption regarding future DLC. And you're not going to let them fuck you? Yeah, don't buy their games or the DLC. christ.

[QUOTE=Strongbad;35226524]Uh How is rewriting the shit, rushed, badly thought-out ending they put in going to undo the whole thing?[/QUOTE] Reread what I wrote. That whole quote is me saying they cannot undo the whole thing. It's a shit ending I agree, and the dogs are out and everyone knows who-dun-it. [QUOTE=thisispain;35226535]an apple as a product is not art. the aesthetics, function, or meaning of an apple can be art, but a store-bought apple by itself isn't art.[/QUOTE] A store bought apple by itself can very well be art. The whole Dada movement and Marcel Duchamp especially were very much out to prove that something doesn't have to even be made by the artist to be art. Hell there's a whole genre of ready made art that follows that principle. You can never really say something isn't art.

[QUOTE=Mon;35226569]don't think i agree with you on that i don't think that art is about anything. it's just a weird quirk that us people have that makes us produce weird shit for fun. if we don't get much fun out of it, or it doesn't give us a good reaction, we say we don't like it, and label it as bad art. or at least that's the way i see it. i could be wrong.[/QUOTE] no such thing as "bad" art lol

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226438]every choice still lead you down the same path with different variables. You know no matter what you do you go to the same planets, do the same missions, just with a few changed variables. It's an illusion that you're doing what you want, making "truly" significant choices. and with the point of being indistinguishable, yes they are if you think about the actual events following the ending. you just don't see them.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but are we really talking about the same ending. The one I'm talking about defined your choices with different colored explosions.