Mass Effect 3 Ending Scandel Makes Kevin Levine Sad - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226099]he's saying you can't please everyone. they told the story they wanted to tell and changing it now, would be compromising that and just pandering to their audience to please them rather than creating their own vision[/QUOTE] But Bioware love pandering!!!

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226579]you're entirely misinformed about the on disc DLC, and you are just making a completely baseless assumption regarding future DLC. And you're not going to let them fuck you? Yeah, don't buy their games or the DLC. christ.[/QUOTE] Yes I'm misinformed about the DLC, yes the part where you can change one line of code to get it to run, also I'm sorry if me getting abit emotional is strange for you when considering it's like watching an industry slowly sinking into a wreck, sure it's Bioware today but other companies know what they're doing is perfectly viable practice and profit-maximizing is all they care about. Also I'm not making a baseless assumption regarding future DLC, Bioware tweeted at the criticsms of the end stating they were not yet wrapped up, also at the end is says verbatm for all to fucking see "Commander Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat. Now you can continue to BUILD that legend through further gameplay and downloadable content." [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8[/media] Look shit up before you call someone misinformed.

[QUOTE=thisispain;35226535]an apple as a product is not art. the aesthetics, function, or meaning of an apple can be art, but a store-bought apple by itself isn't art.[/QUOTE] that's because apples aren't produced by applying creativity - all of their features are functional towards reproduction and survival. and i'm still not quite clear about how that answers anything

[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35226585]I'm sorry but are we really talking about the same ending. The one I'm talking about defined your choices with different colored explosions.[/QUOTE] visually, yes. so what? The actual outcome of the choices and their implications are very, very heavy. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it is meaningless.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226584]no such thing as "bad" art lol[/QUOTE] it's out there man just good and bad are too subjective in art to give a clean-cut statement about what is and isn't quality

[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35226607]Yes I'm misinformed about the DLC, yes the part where you can change one line of code to get it to run?: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8[/media] Look shit up before you call someone misinformed.[/QUOTE] lol again you don't know what you are talking about. [url]http://www.inquisitr.com/204190/bioware-addresses-mass-effect-3-from-ashes-dlc-controversy/[/url] “As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2.”

...But the ending to the Mass Effect series was already changed from what the author wanted. The main writing guy behind the whole series, who had already planned out the finale in advance, was shitcanned between 2 and 3 and all of his literary blueprints were thrown out with him. If I created a video where a sock puppet Shepard saved humanity by punching a dog in a lobster costume, it would be just as true to the Mass Effect creator's vision as the current ME3 ending.

[QUOTE=Mon;35226626]it's out there man just good and bad are too subjective to give a clean-cut statement about what is and isn't quality[/QUOTE] The only way to really judge art is how much it makes you think and how powerful it is to you as a work, which is entirely subjective, even if it may be agreed on one way or another by a majority. why bother saying art is bad or good? it's all in the eye of the beholder.

[QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;35226582]The whole Dada movement and Marcel Duchamp especially were very much out to prove that something doesn't have to even be made by the artist to be art.[/QUOTE] i'm very aware of the Dada movement, but they made the meaning of the object itself the art. the apple as a product is not art, when its function or meaning is adopted then it becomes art.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226647]The only way to really judge art is how much it makes you think and how powerful it is to you as a work, which is entirely subjective, even if it may be agreed on one way or another by a majority. why bother saying art is bad or good? it's all in the eye of the beholder.[/QUOTE] ...Except this isn't fancy shmancy autionhouse art that people do purely out of passion. This is entertainment art, where if your product isn't liked enough you can see it in your profit margins.

[QUOTE=Pennywise;35226645]...But the ending to the Mass Effect series was already changed from what the author wanted. The main writing guy behind the whole series, who had already planned out the finale in advance, was shitcanned between 2 and 3 and all of his literary blueprints were thrown out with him. If I created a video where a sock puppet Shepard saved humanity by punching a dog in a lobster costume, it would be just as true to the Mass Effect creator's vision as the current ME3 ending.[/QUOTE] but again you are assuming the cutscenes would be any more specific as to what happens after, which is what most people are complaining about.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226628]lol again you don't know what you are talking about. [url]http://www.inquisitr.com/204190/bioware-addresses-mass-effect-3-from-ashes-dlc-controversy/[/url] “As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2.”[/QUOTE] Hmm yes that seems legit after they made multiple other statements about the substance of the DLC itself on multiple occasions, which turned out to be bullshit aswell, doesn't seem like they aren't covering their tracks of anything. Nothing fishy about this at all :downs:

it was still going to break down to having three choices that override everything you've done before.

[QUOTE=thisispain;35226659]i'm very aware of the Dada movement, but they made the meaning of the object itself the art. the apple as a product is not art, when its function or meaning is adopted then it becomes art.[/QUOTE] So are you saying that the apple is or isn't art? You're basically saying the apple is both a product and art, which you said earlier is impossible. [QUOTE=Sector 7;35226661]...Except this isn't fancy shmancy autionhouse art that people do purely out of passion. This is entertainment art, where if your product isn't liked enough you can see it in your profit margins.[/QUOTE] Not to mention it's designed, written, and created as a product. It's sole purpose is to make money.

[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35226666]Hmm yes that seems legit after they made multiple other statements about the substance of the DLC itself, doesn't seem like they aren't covering their tracks of anything. Nothing fishy about this at all :downs:[/QUOTE] even thought they did the exact same thing with mass effect 2, it's just now they are trying to pull the rug out from under you. how convenient [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] it's not as if the DLC is 400 mb or anything [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sector 7;35226661]...Except this isn't fancy shmancy autionhouse art that people do purely out of passion. This is entertainment art, where if your product isn't liked enough you can see it in your profit margins.[/QUOTE] movies

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226647]The only way to really judge art is how much it makes you think and how powerful it is to you as a work, which is entirely subjective, even if it may be agreed on one way or another by a majority. why bother saying art is bad or good? it's all in the eye of the beholder.[/QUOTE] i can agree with that, but then that raises the question of critics. i mean, they're definitely accurate to some degree. check rotten tomatoes - there's definitely some correlation between them and the average audience score. with that, i think you can say there's a certain degree of quality behind art.

[QUOTE=Mon;35226626] just good and bad are too subjective in art to give a clean-cut statement about what is and isn't quality[/QUOTE] well exactly so how can we decide something is badly written if the conception of bad or good in art is completely subjective? let me answer that question, you can decide something is badly written and thus should the removed when you declare that something is bad because it lacks the utility you want. the ending is bad because it doesn't do bla bla bla is quite similar to saying this wrench doesn't work because it won't tighten up my bolt.

[QUOTE=Mon;35226705]i can agree with that, but then that raises the question of critics. i mean, they're definitely accurate to some degree. check rotten tomatoes - there's definitely some correlation between them and the average audience score. with that, i think you can say there's a certain degree of quality behind art.[/QUOTE] well one man's trash is another man's treasure, you can never be definitive. That's all.

[QUOTE=Feuver;35226196]The problem in your statement here is that Episode 2 isn't the end of the Half-life series. However, if they end the series with Eli's death being useless, we'll have a right to be pissed.[/QUOTE] Not really. It's Valve's product, they can do what they want to their story. I don't know what kind of person you have to be to think you have some kind of right to someone's work.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226679]even thought they did the exact same thing with mass effect 2, it's just now they are trying to pull the rug out from under you. how convenient [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] it's not as if the DLC is 400 mb or anything[/QUOTE] The difference between the DLC on the disk from ME2 and ME3 that makes people all uppity is that for ME2 the on disk DLC character was free as long as you had a CD key. Plus the character was not very important to the overall story. The on disc DLC character for ME3 was very much a paid for experience, and one that contributed a lot to the story.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226679]even thought they did the exact same thing with mass effect 2, it's just now they are trying to pull the rug out from under you. how convenient [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] it's not as if the DLC is 400 mb or anything [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] movies[/QUOTE] Exactly it isn't 400mb or anything, and it's a integral part of the games storyline considering you play a Prothean which is like a huge deal considering they've were only in the background up to ME3. So it's a horrible policy to put said content on the disc. I mean regardless of how it finally ended up on the disc if you want to believe Biowares silly childish excuse and you think I'm making up like some grand conspiracy or some shit, they still supplied this content on the bloody DISC and people purchased said disc. So you're asking them to pay for content which they already technically own, not to mention the stupidity of day-one DLC, it was produced during the game's normal production period and is expensive considering the amount of content. Seems like great business practice, I should definitely not condone this and let it occur further.

[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35226666]Hmm yes that seems legit after they made multiple other statements about the substance of the DLC itself on multiple occasions, which turned out to be bullshit aswell, doesn't seem like they aren't covering their tracks of anything. Nothing fishy about this at all :downs:[/QUOTE] It's very possible they were telling the truth there. To integrate a character like that into the storyline, there would have to be resources on disk already, to save having to update all the scenarios after the DLC launches. Tell me, does this "one line hack" just unlock the character for your squad? Or the missions tied to the character as well? Because if the latter is still locked, your entire argument against the DLC is fucked.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226715]well one man's trash is another man's treasure, you can never be definitive. That's all.[/QUOTE] oh yeah, that's for sure - but why shouldn't the mean reaction to a work mean anything?

Did he seriously pull a Deviantart "wah, if you don't like it go fuck yourself, the author put effort into it!" whiteknight? Nobody's forcing Bioware to make an ME4, they're just being really open about how they made 3 great games and decided to end them with an ending that wasn't only not affected by the player's decisions [B]as the developers told players it would be[/B], but also was really really shit. We have every right to be mad when a company promises something, doesn't deliver, and doesn't care about the customer since they already have their money.

[QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;35226719]The difference between the DLC on the disk from ME2 and ME3 that makes people all uppity is that for ME2 the on disk DLC character was free as long as you had a CD key. Plus the character was not very important to the overall story. The on disc DLC character for ME3 was very much a paid for experience, and one that contributed a lot to the story.[/QUOTE] wouldn't that explain why you had to pay for one and not the other? lol

[QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;35226672]So are you saying that the apple is or isn't art? You're basically saying the apple is both a product and art, which you said earlier is impossible.[/QUOTE] it's about perception. when an apple becomes art it stops being a consumer product and vice versa. so either we perceive mass effect as art, or as a consumer product. obviously the creators feel that it's art.

[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35226727]Exactly it isn't 400mb or anything, and it's a integral part of the games storyline considering you play a Prothean which is like a huge deal considering they've were only in the background up to ME3. So it's a horrible policy to put said content on the disc, charge people for the disc and then ask them to pay for content which they already technically own, is day-one DLC, was produced during the game's normal production period and is expensive considering the amount of content. Seems like great business practice, I should definitely not condone this and let it occur further.[/QUOTE] it's not a policy, it's a technical requirement. and yes, it is 400 mb

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226738]wouldn't that explain why you had to pay for one and not the other? lol[/QUOTE] No, [i]that would explain why people are angry.[/i]

[QUOTE=hexpunK;35226728]It's very possible they were telling the truth there. To integrate a character like that into the storyline, there would have to be resources on disk already, to save having to update all the scenarios after the DLC launches. Tell me, does this "one line hack" just unlock the character for your squad? Or the missions tied to the character as well? Because if the latter is still locked, your entire argument against the DLC is fucked.[/QUOTE] To the best of my knowledge J'avik and his storyline is completely absent from the game unless you purchase From Ashes.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;35226728]It's very possible they were telling the truth there. To integrate a character like that into the storyline, there would have to be resources on disk already, to save having to update all the scenarios after the DLC launches. Tell me, does this "one line hack" just unlock the character for your squad? Or the missions tied to the character as well? Because if the latter is still locked, your entire argument against the DLC is fucked.[/QUOTE] Just the squad member. There's still a few brow-raising moments if the disk resource theory is true. Mainly, Javik can't be taken with you on Palaven's moon (The first mission you can head to freely, meaning you can do Javik's first.) and [sp]During the earth battle where all your squadmates are together the minor soldier that takes Javik's place if he's absent will sometime not be there, Javik having taken his place.[/sp]