Mass Effect 3 Ending Scandel Makes Kevin Levine Sad - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226664]but again you are assuming the cutscenes would be any more specific as to what happens after, which is what most people are complaining about.[/QUOTE] The only thing I assumed when I played ME3 was that the entire game was going to have the same level of consistent quality that I have come to expect from the Mass Effect franchise. That's what everyone else did, too. I can get behind artistic expression and freedom from fan pressure, but this isn't a matter of doing something interesting, creative, or daring - ME3's ending was a terribly contrived, inconsistent, philosophically hypocritical piece of literary trash that millions of people regret not only paying for, but also simply experiencing. They call it "culinary arts," but you're damn well allowed to send your steak back if it isn't the way you wanted it. That's the bottom line - the video game industry is an industry.

[QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;35226755]To the best of my knowledge J'avik and his storyline is completely absent from the game unless you purchase From Ashes.[/QUOTE] If this is how the DLC functions, then it is as I thought. The entire argument against it is baseless. The DLC will activate and install the extra data for his storyline that is no on disk. But the character has to be on the disk to avoid making the DLC obscenely huge where it contains new scenarios and interaction options.

[QUOTE=SystemGS;35226752]No, [i]that would explain why people are angry.[/i][/QUOTE] so your logic is because they spent more time on one character and his story it should be made more readily available than one that they spent less time on? That the shadow broker DLC should be cheaper than arrival because it has more content with relevance to the story?

[QUOTE=SystemGS;35226126]If I buy a dinner at a restaurant and that dinner is served as something completely different, I have a right to get a new dinner, as I'm paying for it. [/QUOTE] That is so stupid. It has nothing to do with the situation. You bought Mass Effect 3. "There was nothing on the game saying "this is how the game will play, how the story will be told and the endings are this. Do you still want to purchase this game?" Granted the ending could have been better sure, but really everyone is overreacting way too much about this and it's getting kind of stupid really. The fact of the matter is fans have no say in how the story should be told. Directors don't get a massive panel of people and say "hey guys how should I do this" it's their job to tell the story, good or bad. So grow up and live with it.

If video games can be considered art, than the ending of Mass Effect 3 can be considered a cross between Piss Christ and Piss Iron Man.

The million dollar question through all of this is where the line is drawn between art and product. I don't deny that Mass Effect 3 is a piece of art, but it's also a product designed to be mass produced and sold. When does the consumer get their say in that case? At what point is the consumer no longer allowed to complain about the quality of the product? I'm sure the workers at Bioware created Mass Effect 3 as a piece of art and an intended conclusion to the trilogy, but the only reason Mass Effect 3 ever saw the light of day was because EA believed it would turn a profit. I'd be more sympathetic to an Indie developer who is producing the game themselves and is responsible for its release, but it's hard to be sympathetic with Bioware when control over what they produce ultimately lies out of their hands, and the primary purpose of the product is to turn a profit for EA. Bioware wouldn't dare risk otherwise. Then again, Bioware wrote themselves in a corner by constantly making statements that were proven wrong when the game was actually released. [QUOTE=The Janitor;35226778]You bought Mass Effect 3. "There was nothing on the game saying "this is how the game will play, how the story will be told and the endings are this. Do you still want to purchase this game?" [/QUOTE] There was a hell of a lot of pre-release press that did tell us how the game would play out. And that press was bullshit (No ABC endings, endings that answer all questions, not being forced into the same endings as everybody else)

[QUOTE=Sector 7;35226772]The only thing I assumed when I played ME3 was that the entire game was going to have the same level of consistent quality that I have come to expect from the Mass Effect franchise. That's what everyone else did, too. I can get behind artistic expression and freedom from fan pressure, but this isn't a matter of doing something interesting, creative, or daring - ME3's ending was a terribly contrived, inconsistent, philosophically hypocritical piece of literary trash that millions of people regret not only paying for, but also simply experiencing. They call it "culinary arts," but you're damn well allowed to send your steak back if it isn't the way you wanted it. That's the bottom line - the video game industry is an industry.[/QUOTE] yeah then send back your game to gamestop. if you got a digital copy go complain to steam.

[QUOTE=Blooper Reel;35226761]Just the squad member. There's still a few brow-raising moments if the disk resource theory is true. Mainly, Javik can't be taken with you on Palaven's moon (The first mission you can head to freely, meaning you can do Javik's first.) and [sp]During the earth battle where all your squadmates are together the minor soldier that takes Javik's place if he's absent will sometime not be there, Javik having taken his place.[/sp][/QUOTE] Thanks for confirming that. SO! The entire argument against the DLC is null and void. Stop using it fucknuts. Also, too many people seem to be forgetting, the ending is not the entire game. Was the rest of the game fun? Was it engaging? Did you enjoy it? Because if you did, you are bitching about one small part of the storyline in comparison to a entire game. From what I have heard the story is still really good, it's just the endings ruin it. Which was probably due to a script leak I've heard someone mention (anyone confirm this by any chance?), forcing Bioware to re-write some plot events pretty bloody quickly.

[QUOTE=thisispain;35226709]let me answer that question, you can decide something is badly written and thus should the removed when you declare that something is bad because it lacks the utility you want. the ending is bad because it doesn't do bla bla bla is quite similar to saying this wrench doesn't work because it won't tighten up my bolt.[/QUOTE] i don't think there's anything wrong with that. "the ending is bad because i didn't like it" is just as valid as "this microwave is bad because it won't nuke my food." it didn't do its job, and failed to meet expectations. at the same time though, you have to deal with subjectivity. yeah, some people might've been satisfied by the ending, but likewise, there's nothing wrong with people being dissatisfied with it. general consensus seems to be that the ending was bad though. whether that means anything is up to you, but in my opinion that's pretty indicative of its actual quality.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;35226728]It's very possible they were telling the truth there. To integrate a character like that into the storyline, there would have to be resources on disk already, to save having to update all the scenarios after the DLC launches. Tell me, does this "one line hack" just unlock the character for your squad? Or the missions tied to the character as well? Because if the latter is still locked, your entire argument against the DLC is fucked.[/QUOTE] Even if it is true as I stated, it isn't good practice and to not condone it and let it go on further is only going to allow worse and silly attempts to occur. That isn't me trying to be some fear-mongering nutjob that's just basic business observation, it's making them more money then they were originally getting by just releasing a game at standard value for doing next to no more work. Also like I mentioned regardless of how it finally arrived on the disc, people bought that disc expecting the full content contained on it, to block off that content at a price is ridiculous. It isn't even technically DLC as close to no downloading content occurs it's more like unlock this content on your disc which you purchased already now for $6.00 or whatever. [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;35226719]The difference between the DLC on the disk from ME2 and ME3 that makes people all uppity is that for ME2 the on disk DLC character was free as long as you had a CD key. Plus the character was not very important to the overall story. The on disc DLC character for ME3 was very much a paid for experience, and one that contributed a lot to the story.[/QUOTE] This aswell.

[QUOTE=Blooper Reel;35226761]Just the squad member. There's still a few brow-raising moments if the disk resource theory is true. Mainly, Javik can't be taken with you on Palaven's moon (The first mission you can head to freely, meaning you can do Javik's first.) and [sp]During the earth battle where all your squadmates are together the minor soldier that takes Javik's place if he's absent will sometime not be there, Javik having taken his place.[/sp][/QUOTE] if it's a cutscene rendered in realtime, then that would be easy to do with DLC by overwriting the old cutscene information to include that character

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226776]so your logic is because they spent more time on one character and his story it should be made more readily available than one that they spent less time on? That the shadow broker DLC should be cheaper than arrival because it has more content with relevance to the story?[/QUOTE] No, I'm saying that day-one DLC with character-based exposition into the storyline with such a deep and rich backstory shouldn't be marketed as day-one DLC at a price of $10. I would be okay with them releasing it later, but presently, it feels like I was jipped. Especially since, as you probably know, the entire DLC was cut from the full game as described in The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3. There wasn't a storage issue, its sole purpose was to act as a money grab. I'm not going to pay for a DLC that was originally completed as part of the game.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226750]it's not a policy, it's a technical requirement. and yes, it is 400 mb[/QUOTE] You totally failed to understand what I meant by "Exactly it isn't 400mb or anything"

[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35226795]Even if it is true as I stated, it isn't good practice and to not condone it and let it go on further is only going to allow worse and silly attempts to occur. That isn't me trying to be some fear-mongering nutjob that's just basic business observation, it's making them more money then they were originally getting by just releasing a game at standard value for doing next to no more work. Also like I mentioned regardless of how it finally arrived on the disc, people bought that disc expecting the full content contained on it, to block off that content at a price is ridiculous. It isn't even technically DLC as close to no downloading content occurs it's more like unlock this content on your disc which you purchased already now for $6.00 or whatever. [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] This aswell.[/QUOTE] the DLC is over 400 mb how can you say it is already on the disc? the character is on the disc and only on the disc, you can't really do anything with him if you don't have the mission where you go get him...

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226804]if it's a cutscene rendered in realtime, then that would be easy to do with DLC by overwriting the old cutscene information to include that character[/QUOTE] It's a real time render, though.

This whole "It's art so you can't criticise it!" seems to just be a distraction to stop people talking about the actual ending. Art can be bad, art can be good. There's nothing about it which can stop anybody criticising it.

[QUOTE=latin_geek;35226737] We have every right to be mad when a company promises something, doesn't deliver, and doesn't care about the customer since they already have their money.[/QUOTE] No, you don't. Unless well, you have these documents of signed promises?

[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35226817]You totally failed to understand what I meant by "Exactly it isn't 400mb or anything"[/QUOTE] feel free to explain then. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Blooper Reel;35226822]It's a real time render, though.[/QUOTE] that's what I was saying, if it's in realtime, they can just pop in the character. if it was prerendered, they couldn't

[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;35226824]This whole "It's art so you can't criticise it!" seems to just be a distraction to stop people talking about the actual ending. [/QUOTE] oh do you think they're paid by bioware to distract people?

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226611]visually, yes. so what? The actual outcome of the choices and their implications are very, very heavy. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it is meaningless.[/QUOTE] I thought you said a lot of stupid shit, but this was the dumbest thing I've read this entire thread. How much are Bioware paying you again?

[QUOTE=SystemGS;35226813]No, I'm saying that day-one DLC with character-based exposition into the storyline with such a deep and rich backstory shouldn't be marketed as day-one DLC at a price of $10. I would be okay with them releasing it later, but presently, it feels like I was jipped. Especially since, as you probably know, the entire DLC was cut from the full game as described in The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3. There wasn't a storage issue, its sole purpose was to act as a money grab. I'm not going to pay for a DLC that was originally completed as part of the game.[/QUOTE] well with such a big game, how do you know how long the certification process was? you're assuming. [quote]To add insult to injury, the app apparently also reveals that the much contested day-one DLC pack, From Ashes, was, in fact, originally intended to be a part of the main game before time constraints caused the team to convert it to DLC instead.[/quote]

[QUOTE=hexpunK;35226787]Also, too many people seem to be forgetting, the ending is not the entire game. Was the rest of the game fun? Was it engaging? Did you enjoy it? Because if you did, you are bitching about one small part of the storyline in comparison to a entire game.[/QUOTE] The ending of ME3 was really the most critical, anticipated part in the entire series. That's like buying a knife, getting one without a cutting edge, and being told "well the rest of the blade is perfectly intact." ME3 is a fantastic third-person shooter, sure - but I don't play ME because I like third person shooters.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226819]the DLC is over 400 mb how can you say it is already on the disc? the character is on the disc and only on the disc, you can't really do anything with him if you don't have the mission where you go get him...[/QUOTE] Fuck me which part of this are you not getting.

[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35226842]I thought you said a lot of stupid shit, but this was the dumbest thing I've read this entire thread. How much are Bioware paying you again?[/QUOTE] they bought my user title [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35226853]Fuck me which part of this are you not getting.[/QUOTE] keep posting without actually explaining yourself it really works

[QUOTE=The Janitor;35226825]No, you don't. Unless well, you have these documents of signed promises?[/QUOTE] The hell are you talking about? Of COURSE people have the right to be angry when they're promised something and receive something else (especially when they purchased the product under a false pretense). Jesus, it's like some people just flat-out don't believe in consumer rights.

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226828]feel free to explain then. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] that's what I was saying, if it's in realtime, they can just pop in the character. if it was prerendered, they couldn't[/QUOTE] What I meant was that [sp]If you don't have Javik, there's still a chance he might pop up in that scene, even though he hasn't joined your squad.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35226795]Even if it is true as I stated, it isn't good practice and to not condone it and let it go on further is only going to allow worse and silly attempts to occur. That isn't me trying to be some fear-mongering nutjob that's just basic business observation, it's making them more money then they were originally getting by just releasing a game at standard value for doing next to no more work. Also like I mentioned regardless of how it finally arrived on the disc, people bought that disc expecting the full content contained on it, to block off that content at a price is ridiculous. It isn't even technically DLC as close to no downloading content occurs it's more like unlock this content on your disc which you purchased already now for $6.00 or whatever.[/QUOTE] So it's bad practise to save your users from having to download gigabytes of data just so that one character can be integrated into the storyline of the game? Okay, whatever you say. I personally would quite enjoy that as having to download gigs of DLC is a fucking nightmare on most Internet connections even today. People bought the disc expect Mass Effect 3, not any extra characters, no missions for the characters. Just Mass Effect 3. The DLC adds a new character, so what? It isn't plot critical, and from my understanding of the Mass Effect-verse, it would just provide a small bit if insight into one of the less seen races. Do you actually have an argument that can't be proven wrong by just thinking about it for more than a few seconds and doing research? I don't even intend to buy the game and I put the effort into seeing exactly what the on disc content was.

[QUOTE=Blooper Reel;35226871]What I meant was that [sp]If you don't have Javik, there's still a chance he might pop up in that scene, even though he hasn't joined your squad.[/sp][/QUOTE] I misread then. Well since apparently they were originally attempting to get him in the actual game rather than have his mission/content be DLC, and his files are on disc. I don't know what the variables are here so I guess I can't really comment.

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;35226865]The hell are you talking about? Of COURSE people have the right to be angry when they're promised something and receive something else (especially when they purchased the product under a false pretense). Jesus, it's like some people just flat-out don't believe in consumer rights.[/QUOTE] so mass effect 3 is a consumer product, not art? does this extend to any videogame?

[QUOTE=Vedicardi;35226828]feel free to explain then. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] that's what I was saying, if it's in realtime, they can just pop in the character. if it was prerendered, they couldn't[/QUOTE] The mission content amounts to 400mb, the content of said character which is a pretty big part of said content mind you, can't have your nice character DLC without the character now can you. Therefore said content isn't exactly 400mb it's little under 15mb (or how big a character model + texture + animation etc is) with the rest of it they should have provided on the disc with the content that you purchased for the aforementioned reasons I explained.