[QUOTE=Kopimi;39346837]so you're upset because you can't openly talk shit about other people and their lifestyles without them getting offended?[/QUOTE]
You ignored everything I said about being polite and approaching it from a caring, loving perspective. I have a friend who I've known longer than any other person on the planet, even longer than my real brothers and sisters, so to me, he's my real brother. We're as close as we could ever be, and so of course his feelings are very real to me. We're on a level of connection where we don't even have to speak to each other sometimes, we just know what the other is thinking. So isn't it obvious that I would approach the subject with this person in a very decent, non-shit-talking matter? I mean if you can't see my sincerity and you're accusing me of wanting to be able to openly shit-talk people, I'm clearly not properly conveying the manner in which I bring it up with these people.
I can't even bring it up on an internet forum without being accused of shit-talking, so how heavy do you think that taboo is in real life? Even with all the sugar in the world, this topic still gets people incredibly up in arms and defensive, and I honestly think that if we as a society had a more negative opinion of obesity, then it wouldn't be so defensible.
[QUOTE=-Get_A_Life-;39346881]that and cigarettes becoming expensive shit, but I doubt making burgers a 15$ thing will change anything.[/QUOTE]
I remember a couple of years ago, my dad telling me (he's a heavy smoker) that he'll quit when cigarettes become five times as expensive [as they were then]. They're 10 times as expensive now, and he still hasn't quit.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39346890]You ignored everything I said about being polite and approaching it from a caring, loving perspective. I have a friend who I've known longer than any other person on the planet, even longer than my real brothers and sisters, so to me, he's my real brother. We're as close as we could ever be, and so of course his feelings are very real to me. We're on a level of connection where we don't even have to speak to each other sometimes, we just know what the other is thinking. So isn't it obvious that I would approach the subject with this person in a very decent, non-shit-talking matter? I mean if you can't see my sincerity and you're accusing me of wanting to be able to openly shit-talk people, I'm clearly not properly conveying the manner in which I bring it up with these people.
I can't even bring it up on an internet forum without being accused of shit-talking, so how heavy do you think that taboo is in real life? Even with all the sugar in the world, this topic still gets people incredibly up in arms and defensive, and I honestly think that if we as a society had a more negative opinion of obesity, then it wouldn't be so defensible.[/QUOTE]
i don't understand what you're complaining about. no matter how close you are to these people, nobody wants to hear you talk about how bad obesity is, probably because they already understand it and don't need you to tell them about it
Obesity is objectively a bad condition for the individual and society and should be discouraged.
"Shaming" however doesn't sound appropriate. People should be made aware of the risks of obesity rather than having their self-esteem lowered.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39346890]You ignored everything I said about being polite and approaching it from a caring, loving perspective. I have a friend who I've known longer than any other person on the planet, even longer than my real brothers and sisters, so to me, he's my real brother. We're as close as we could ever be, and so of course his feelings are very real to me. We're on a level of connection where we don't even have to speak to each other sometimes, we just know what the other is thinking. So isn't it obvious that I would approach the subject with this person in a very decent, non-shit-talking matter? I mean if you can't see my sincerity and you're accusing me of wanting to be able to openly shit-talk people, I'm clearly not properly conveying the manner in which I bring it up with these people.
I can't even bring it up on an internet forum without being accused of shit-talking, so how heavy do you think that taboo is in real life? Even with all the sugar in the world, this topic still gets people incredibly up in arms and defensive, and I honestly think that if we as a society had a more negative opinion of obesity, then it wouldn't be so defensible.[/QUOTE]
If he's that good of a fucking friend, he'd understand your concern and maybe start doing something about it, instead of brushing you off.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39346824]Well yeah I mean you have to at least take my word for it that I would approach the situation lightly in a real social setting. Like I said, most of my friends are fat, so of course I have to beat around the bush and sugar-coat the subject when I talk about it in public. So of course I'm polite and I address things at an appropriate time, and I'm much less harsh with my language in real life than I am on an internet forum, but even with all of those precautions, they still get all offended. It's just a taboo to even bring it up, like how when people are hooked on pills or something, you can't bring it up, can't mention it, don't hurt people's feelings. Fuck that, honestly, medicine isn't supposed to taste good. Sometimes we have to hear things that are harsh realities and sometimes we don't like to hear those things, too bad.
Even when I'm the nicest person in the world about it, approaching it as lightly and with as much sugar-coating as possible, I still always come out looking like the bad guy for bringing up that being extremely overweight might be an issue.[/QUOTE]
If you're not a medical professional and you're not fat why do you find yourself discussing being fat in public so often that you're actually bothered by the fact that people don't like it when you're abrasive about it?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39346008]Just like how social stigma against mental illness has fixed mental illness right up eh[/QUOTE]
I'm happy I can call myself defective.
[QUOTE=Stopper;39346917]If he's that good of a fucking friend, he'd understand your concern and maybe start doing something about it, instead of brushing you off.[/QUOTE]
or maybe if j paul is that good of a friend he wouldn't keep on bringing up something that his friend clearly understands and doesn't want to talk about
if they want to fix obesity a good place to start is to get parents to stop making mcdonalds their family's meal 7 nights a week i dunno maybe ???
i knew a lot of fat kids that were always taught they can just eat whatever the fuck they want whenever they want and i'm sure if they haven't figured it out by now they're probably still obese, and eating whatever the fuck they want.
it aaaaall starts with education. teach the kids the healths ok
[QUOTE=Stopper;39346917]If he's that good of a fucking friend, he'd understand your concern and maybe start doing something about it, instead of brushing you off.[/QUOTE]
Maybe if J Paul was a good friend he'd stop trying to police his friends' bodies
edit: made almost an identical post to kopimi look at that
[QUOTE=Kopimi;39346910]i don't understand what you're complaining about. no matter how close you are to these people, nobody wants to hear you talk about how bad obesity is, probably because they already understand it and don't need you to tell them about it[/QUOTE]
But do they really? I mean if they can go out of their way to defend it as a valid lifestyle choice, maybe they really don't understand what's bad about it?
Remember that I'm talking about young people here. Sure when you're 40 and fat, you realize what it's like to really be a fat piece of shit. But when you're 20 and fat, you just feel like any normal, somewhat healthy 20 year old. So yeah, I honestly think it's very possible if not probable that these people really either don't care about their own health, or since they don't see any detrimental effects this early on in their life, they don't see it as the big problem that it really is, much like with cigarette smoking, and so they see it as something that is worth defending. That's the only justification I can see for the stiff defense that comes up against me any time I even think the word 'fat'.
[QUOTE=Stopper;39346917]If he's that good of a fucking friend, he'd understand your concern and maybe start doing something about it, instead of brushing you off.[/QUOTE]
Not when he's trained by society to see himself as a victim of skinny oppression.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39346953]Maybe if J Paul was a good friend he'd stop trying to police his friends' bodies
edit: made almost an identical post to kopimi look at that[/QUOTE]
Or maybe I just want some friends to stick around at least till 40 or 50. Yeah, I sure am an asshole for wanting people to want to care about themselves.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;39346948]or maybe if j paul is that good of a friend he wouldn't keep on bringing up something that his friend clearly understands and doesn't want to talk about[/QUOTE]
Clearly they don't understand it if they honestly see their position as defensible.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39346943]If you're not a medical professional and you're not fat why do you find yourself discussing being fat in public so often that you're actually bothered by the fact that people don't like it when you're abrasive about it?[/QUOTE]
But that's the thing, it's not very often that it gets brought up because of how defensive people get. When people honestly feel like they're right and justified in what they do and how they live, they honestly see nothing wrong with it. So of course you can't bring it up. So yes, it's frustrating enough for me to post about it on an internet forum, but it only ever rarely comes up in real life because it's only on rare occasions that I think maybe it'll be different this time, maybe this person will have some kind of rational thinking and actually consider what I have to say instead of blowing it off and accusing me of being the one with the problem.
[QUOTE=MIPS;39346946]I'm happy I can call myself defective.[/QUOTE]
this mindset where mental illness is "cool" and interesting is so stupid and damaging jesus christ
having a mental illness isn't cool, pretending you're a special snowflake with a complex mind that's somehow flawed or ill is shit i would expect from an emo kid in middle school. stop pretending mental illness is something cool and to be admired
well I was shamed and I'm still fat but with even worse self-esteem
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39346953]Maybe if J Paul was a good friend he'd stop trying to police his friends' bodies
edit: made almost an identical post to kopimi look at that[/QUOTE]
we're so in sync dude
[editline]24th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=J Paul;39346964]But do they really? I mean if they can go out of their way to defend it as a valid lifestyle choice, maybe they really don't understand what's bad about it?
Remember that I'm talking about young people here. Sure when you're 40 and fat, you realize what it's like to really be a fat piece of shit. But when you're 20 and fat, you just feel like any normal, somewhat healthy 20 year old. So yeah, I honestly think it's very possible if not probable that these people really either don't care about their own health, or since they don't see any detrimental effects this early on in their life, they don't see it as the big problem that it really is, much like with cigarette smoking, and so they see it as something that is worth defending. [B]That's the only justification I can see for the stiff defense that comes up against me any time I even think the word 'fat'.[/B][/QUOTE]
or maybe it's because they're grown ass adults that don't need you telling them how to live their lives??
[QUOTE=MIPS;39346946]I'm happy I can call myself defective.[/QUOTE]
offensive
[QUOTE=Kopimi;39346969]this mindset where mental illness is "cool" and interesting is so stupid and damaging jesus christ
having a mental illness isn't cool, pretending you're a special snowflake with a complex mind that's somehow flawed or ill is shit i would expect from an emo kid in middle school. stop pretending mental illness is something cool and to be admired[/QUOTE]
nonsense
I'm one empty whiteboard away from discovering cold fusion
I don't see why people would choose to be fat.
I don't enjoy it, and I never have. In high school everyone talked shit to me, and if I tried to work out or even eat something healthy I'd get mocked more for "trying". It takes a lot of work and the negative environment makes things so much harder, I don't see how shaming would solve anything.
It wasn't until my first semester in college when I actually gained the confidence to go to a gym because nobody really cares enough to be an ass hole in college, and I have friends who are supportive. I've lost over 60 pounds since high school, because of positive reinforcement. Yeah, telling people it's okay to be fat is stupid, because it's unhealthy and it'll definitely shorten your life, but constantly shaming them and treating them like shit won't motivate them to try at all.
[QUOTE=MIPS;39346946]I'm happy I can call myself defective.[/QUOTE]
Look I'm all for empowering people with mental illness but society needs to stop pretending that it isn't a big deal
Being even slightly overweight sucks
I love how people think its just easy to stop eating garbage. When you have been eating like a pig for your whole life, it has become a habit of eating unhealthy. You are going to be longing for those unhealthy foods that taste so good. It really is a challenge to change your eating habits because of it. It takes a lot of willpower to ignore what your mind desires and to pick the healthier food. But changing your eating habits is one of the main ways to lose weight.
It makes me so mad whenever someone posts "Maybe they should stop shoveling food into their mouths" or worded in any other fashion.
If you have been skinny or just have a really fast metabolism you basically have no right to tell people that they should stop eating. You have no idea how hard it is to stop eating junk.
[QUOTE=Mateo!;39347048]I don't see why people would choose to be fat.
I don't enjoy it, and I never have. In high school everyone talked shit to me, and if I tried to work out or even eat something healthy I'd get mocked more for "trying". It takes a lot of work and the negative environment makes things so much harder, I don't see how shaming would solve anything.
It hasn't been until my first semester in college when I actually gained the confidence to go to a gym because nobody really cares in college, and I have friends who are supportive. I've lost over 60 pounds since high school, because of positive reinforcement. Yeah, telling people it's okay to be fat is stupid, because it's unhealthy and it'll definitely shorten your life, but constantly shaming them and treating them like shit won't motivate them to try at all.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, who the fuck is going to work out if every time they try some shithead decides to laugh at the fat guy jogging in the park
Social activities, team sports, etc are some of the best ways to get in shape and if obesity is being stigmatized obese people are just going to become more introverted and get less exercise
[QUOTE=Kopimi;39346969]this mindset where mental illness is "cool" and interesting is so stupid and damaging jesus christ
having a mental illness isn't cool, pretending you're a special snowflake with a complex mind that's somehow flawed or ill is shit i would expect from an emo kid in middle school. stop pretending mental illness is something cool and to be admired[/QUOTE]
So should he be ashamed of his mental illness? I've got PTSD and I fully accept and embrace it as something of value in my life because it's vastly changed my perspective on the world and broadened my horizons, opening my eyes wider for every little bit it cripples me.
Mental illnesses may not be cool, but they are sure as hell interesting. I love talking to the (stable) mentally ill, because they often have a unique take on everything that I haven't heard before. It's fascinating to see how different another can see the world, and I think it's pretty cool when they are fully functioning but almost a different species due to their illness/disability.
Certain aspects of Autism can bring about very fascinating and caring people.
Mental illness is naturally occurring. I don't know why you need to assure anyone who is mentally ill that they shouldn't feel good about themselves. Honestly, you shouldn't be able to feel good about yourself saying that.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;39346978]or maybe it's because they're grown ass adults that don't need you telling them how to live their lives??[/QUOTE]
That you don't explicitly [I]need[/I] the input of others is no reason to be a complete fucking asshole and ignore everyone else because it makes you feel better to not face your own problems.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;39346969]this mindset where mental illness is "cool" and interesting is so stupid and damaging jesus christ
having a mental illness isn't cool, pretending you're a special snowflake with a complex mind that's somehow flawed or ill is shit i would expect from an emo kid in middle school. stop pretending mental illness is something cool and to be admired[/QUOTE]
why do you assume that's the angle he was taking?
most likely what he meant was 'instead of going boo hoo I have a mental illness I will be comfortable with it
Like me; yeah I have a bit of an anxiety issue but I'm not going to let it be the end of the world. I'm quite comfortable being how I am
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;39347057]Being even slightly overweight sucks[/QUOTE]
Being slightly overweight and being slightly underweight carry about the same level of risk but only one gets you a modelling career
Maybe kids should be educated about fast food more. I was educated so much about the harms of smoking that I never went near a cigarette to this day. Shaming, however, will just make kids feel really horrible about themselves. I used to be a fatty, then I played high school sports and kept good physical activity up.
And Zeke129 why are you trying to justify being fat? There's no reason someone who doesn't have a eating disorder that is diagnosed by a doctor (self diagnosis is bullshit), should be fat besides they are LAZY. Being fat isn't a crime but it's not a good thing.
Perhaps if gym classes were more strenuous on the students, instead of the " you try, you got an A " attitude, our society would be much healthier. It is the responsibility of the schools to prepare kids for the " real world " right?
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347090]That you don't explicitly [I]need[/I] the input of others is no reason to be a complete fucking asshole and ignore everyone else because it makes you feel better to not face your own problems.[/QUOTE]
Your friends aren't obliged to do what you want them to. If they're comfortable with their bodies who are you to suggest otherwise
[editline]24th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=SGTSpartans;39347105]
And Zeke129 why are you trying to justify being fat?[/QUOTE]
When did I attempt to do this? Go on, find the post
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;39347087]So should he be ashamed of his mental illness? I've got PTSD and I fully accept and embrace it as something of value in my life because it's vastly changed my perspective on the world and broadened my horizons, opening my eyes wider for every little bit it cripples me.
Mental illnesses may not be cool, but they are sure as hell interesting. I love talking to the (stable) mentally ill, because they often have a unique take on everything that I haven't heard before. It's fascinating to see how different another can see the world, and I think it's pretty cool when they are fully functioning but almost a different species due to their illness/disability.
Certain aspects of Autism can bring about very fascinating and caring people.
Mental illness is naturally occurring. I don't know why you need to assure anyone who is mentally ill that they shouldn't feel good about themselves. Honestly, you shouldn't be able to feel good about yourself saying that.[/QUOTE]
literally never said people should be ashamed of mental illness, but glorifying it like it's cool to have a serious mental illness is stupid and damaging to the perception of mental illness in our society. a mental illness is a problem that should be taken seriously, not something people go around pretending they have so they can feel interesting and unique like some 14 year old kid going "hehe.. i am demented.. i am psychotic.... so dark and mysterious." if you have a mental illness no hate, and being proud of the fact that you're able to live your life comfortably with it and overcome it in a sense is great, but running around bragging about it and pretending its something people should desire is stupid
This shouldn't be allowed, people can't just go around waving their thin privilege like that.
[QUOTE=SGTSpartans;39347105]Maybe kids should be educated about fast food more. I was educated so much about the harms of smoking that I never went near a cigarette to this day. Shaming, however, will just make kids feel really horrible about themselves. I used to be a fatty, then I played high school sports and kept good physical activity up.
And Zeke129 why are you trying to justify being fat? There's no reason someone who doesn't have a eating disorder that is diagnosed by a doctor (self diagnosis is bullshit), should be fat besides they are LAZY. Being fat isn't a crime but it's not a good thing.
Perhaps if gym classes were more strenuous on the students, instead of the " you try, you got an A " attitude, our society would be much healthier. It is the responsibility of the schools to prepare kids for the " real world " right?[/QUOTE]
I don't see the problem with justifying people being overweight; it's their body to do what they want with. I don't give a shit if somebody smokes or eats too much; I'm not going to have a cry and tell them they're bad people or living their life wrong
[editline]25th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kopimi;39347133]literally never said people should be ashamed of mental illness, but glorifying it like it's cool to have a serious mental illness is stupid and damaging to the perception of mental illness in our society. a mental illness is a problem that should be taken seriously, not something people go around pretending they have so they can feel interesting and unique like some 14 year old kid going "hehe.. i am demented.. i am psychotic.... so dark and mysterious." if you have a mental illness no hate, and being proud of the fact that you're able to live your life comfortably with it and overcome it in a sense is great, but running around bragging about it and pretending its something people should desire is stupid[/QUOTE]
literally nobody in this thread said that their mental illness was something others should desire
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