[QUOTE=Zeke129;39347108]Your friends aren't obliged to do what you want them to. If they're comfortable with their bodies who are you to suggest otherwise[/QUOTE]
But that's the thing, they're clearly not comfortable with it, because if they were, it wouldn't be such a major taboo, and it wouldn't be so defensible. It would be more like "yeah I'm an abomination, I'm fine with it", and honestly I'd be okay with receiving an honest answer like that. But I never do. It's always the dishonest justification of it and the demonization of me for even bringing it up. It's fucking really ridiculous and frustrating and I feel like we could be talking about any kind of addictive or compulsive behavior here. Just replace 'fat' with 'addicted to zanex' and you see why it's so frustrating for me and why it's such a real problem that deserves some honest words.
I'm pretty sure shaming them would just make them depressed, and that would make them eat more.
It would only worsen the problem.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347090]That you don't explicitly [I]need[/I] the input of others is no reason to be a complete fucking asshole and ignore everyone else because it makes you feel better to not face your own problems.[/QUOTE]
why SHOULDN'T they be assholes if you won't shut the hell up about some shit they've clearly already acknowledged and made clear they don't want to hear about?? if you don't want them to be assholes stop lecturing grown adults because you think you're an authority on the matter. aren't you the same guy that was in the love advice thread talking about how women are bitches and you have to treat them like they're inferior in order to get laid? maybe you're not the best guy to be giving people advice about their lives dude
[QUOTE=Maloof?;39347091]why do you assume that's the angle he was taking?
most likely what he meant was 'instead of going boo hoo I have a mental illness I will be comfortable with it
Like me; yeah I have a bit of an anxiety issue but I'm not going to let it be the end of the world. I'm quite comfortable being how I am[/QUOTE]
with most other posters i wouldn't assume that was his angle but knowing MIPS and the fact that he constantly tries to be edgy and "dark" in the same way a teenage boy would try to act tough and emotionless to impress other people i feel confident about my assumption that he was just saying that to play the "ooh.. i'm so mysterious and dark.. i hear voices in my head hehe my brain is all fucked up man!!" card
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347159]But that's the thing, they're clearly not comfortable with it, because if they were, it wouldn't be such a major taboo, and it wouldn't be so defensible. It would be more like "yeah I'm an abomination, I'm fine with it", and honestly I'd be okay with receiving an honest answer like that. But I never do. It's always the dishonest justification of it and the demonization of me for even bringing it up. It's fucking really ridiculous and frustrating and I feel like we could be talking about any kind of addictive or compulsive behavior here. Just replace 'fat' with 'addicted to zanex' and you see why it's so frustrating for me and why it's such a real problem that deserves some honest words.[/QUOTE]
I understand being concerned for your friend's longevity but at the end of the day if they don't want to talk about it just drop it
it's not your responsibility
[QUOTE=ionuttzu;39347169]I'm pretty sure shaming them would just make them depressed, and that would make them eat more.
It would only worsen the problem.[/QUOTE]
I have another friend who was absolutely entrenched in a heavy zanex addiction, and until I honestly brought it up to him that it might not be a good lifestyle choice, he had never even considered it to be a problem. His internal justification was 'this makes me feel good, so I do it', without even considering the fact that zanex makes him a fucking zombie who literally can't function in the real world.
Sometimes shame can cause harm, but sometimes we need to be honest and say to someone, 'look, there is a problem that needs to be addressed here', otherwise nothing will ever get done.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347198]I have another friend who was absolutely entrenched in a heavy zanex addiction, and until I honestly brought it up to him that it might not be a good lifestyle choice, he had never even considered it to be a problem. His internal justification was 'this makes me feel good, so I do it', without even considering the fact that zanex makes him a fucking zombie who literally can't function in the real world.
Sometimes shame can cause harm, but sometimes we need to be honest and say to someone, 'look, there is a problem that needs to be addressed here', otherwise nothing will ever get done.[/QUOTE]
uh
talking to him rationally about his problem =/= shaming
EVERYONE WHO SAYS THIS IS A BAD IDEA IS FAT
FAT PEOPLE ARE BAD
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347198]I have another friend who was absolutely entrenched in a heavy zanex addiction, and until I honestly brought it up to him that it might not be a good lifestyle choice, he had never even considered it to be a problem. His internal justification was 'this makes me feel good, so I do it', without even considering the fact that zanex makes him a fucking zombie who literally can't function in the real world.
Sometimes shame can cause harm, but sometimes we need to be honest and say to someone, 'look, there is a problem that needs to be addressed here', otherwise nothing will ever get done.[/QUOTE]
I repeat; look up the psychology of shame
Shame is 'I am a bad person'
Guilt is 'I have done a bad thing'
Talking rationally and explaining the consequences of something to somebody who is willing to listen is not shaming
Shame will always cause harm
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347159]But that's the thing, they're clearly not comfortable with it, because if they were, it wouldn't be such a major taboo, and it wouldn't be so defensible. It would be more like "yeah I'm an abomination, I'm fine with it", and honestly I'd be okay with receiving an honest answer like that. But I never do. It's always the dishonest justification of it and the demonization of me for even bringing it up. It's fucking really ridiculous and frustrating and I feel like we could be talking about any kind of addictive or compulsive behavior here. Just replace 'fat' with 'addicted to zanex' and you see why it's so frustrating for me and why it's such a real problem that deserves some honest words.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck?
How do you know they aren't comfortable with it? Maybe they just don't like hearing the opinions of someone who thinks they are
[quote]an abomination[/quote]
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;39347087]So should he be ashamed of his mental illness? I've got PTSD and I fully accept and embrace it as something of value in my life because it's vastly changed my perspective on the world and broadened my horizons, opening my eyes wider for every little bit it cripples me.
Mental illnesses may not be cool, but they are sure as hell interesting. I love talking to the (stable) mentally ill, because they often have a unique take on everything that I haven't heard before. It's fascinating to see how different another can see the world, and I think it's pretty cool when they are fully functioning but almost a different species due to their illness/disability.
Certain aspects of Autism can bring about very fascinating and caring people.
Mental illness is naturally occurring. I don't know why you need to assure anyone who is mentally ill that they shouldn't feel good about themselves. Honestly, you shouldn't be able to feel good about yourself saying that.[/QUOTE]
Mental illness is the opposite of interesting, it's frightening, especially the ones that cause people to lose touch with reality/develop severe paranoia. It can change your perspective on life, but that isn't a good thing in this case, people being unable to meld with normal people is not interesting, maybe if you enjoy satiating morbid curiosity, but that is just too much, it's not a good thing in any degree.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;39347174]why SHOULDN'T they be assholes if you won't shut the hell up about some shit they've clearly already acknowledged and made clear they don't want to hear about?? if you don't want them to be assholes stop lecturing grown adults because you think you're an authority on the matter. aren't you the same guy that was in the love advice thread talking about how women are bitches and you have to treat them like they're inferior in order to get laid? maybe you're not the best guy to be giving people advice about their lives dude[/QUOTE]
Look, since we're discussing this in an internet forum, yes we keep making posts about it. That doesn't mean that this has any reflection on how I handle the issue in real social situaitons. I've told you this several times before and each time you ignore it so eventually I'll just stop responding to you about it, kind of like how I have to handle the fat topic with my fat friends, just ignore it and maybe it'll go away. Fucking childish ridiculousness. And sure you've ignored, misinterpreted, and twisted my words from the other thread to fit whatever you want to think about me just like you've done in this thread, so why do I even bother.
[QUOTE=Yumyumbublegum;39347218]uh
talking to him rationally about his problem =/= shaming[/QUOTE]
Oh, okay, I didn't know that there was a difference. Because the 'talking to a person rationally' bit is how I ALWAYS handle it in a real life social setting, yet it still gets met with the same defense as would be used if I had just outright shamed it.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;39347192]I understand being concerned for your friend's longevity but at the end of the day if they don't want to talk about it just drop it
it's not your responsibility[/QUOTE]
Sure, I can accept that, that's why I'm talking about it on here and relieving my frustration that way instead of bringing it up in social settings.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;39347242]I repeat; look up the psychology of shame
Shame is 'I am a bad person'
Guilt is 'I have done a bad thing'
Talking rationally and explaining the consequences of something to somebody who is willing to listen is not shaming
Shame will always cause harm[/QUOTE]
Yeah I feel you man, I get this absolutely. I didn't know the full meaning of the word shame and so I assumed that 'shaming' was what I was doing when I'm really just rationally bringing it up with care and compassion. Sorry if I have caused any confusion in doing this, but surely you can understand how the reactions I get might have led me to believe I was participating in shaming even though, according to you, I have not.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39347259]What the fuck?
How do you know they aren't comfortable with it? Maybe they just don't like hearing the opinions of someone who thinks they are[/QUOTE]
For the same reason that I used to defend against things that I wasn't comfortable with, before I truly became comfortable with them. I have no reason to defend something that I feel is absolutely righteous and okay, that doesn't make any sense. And I use the word abomination because it's funny to me to use harsh words like that on a forum, but in reality I see it more like how I compared it to other compulsive behaviors, so of course I would never use such terminology in a real conversation. You don't help someone's addiction by calling them an asshole, of course I know that.
"Shaming" them by what I think they mean is not going to help anything.
But what I do think would help is making it more known about the actual health risks of living an unhealthy lifestyle.
Nobody wants to die young or be almost entirely immobile if they get older. And it's not shaming, it's just fact.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347292]Look, since we're discussing this in an internet forum, yes we keep making posts about it. That doesn't mean that this has any reflection on how I handle the issue in real social situaitons. I've told you this several times before and each time you ignore it so eventually I'll just stop responding to you about it, kind of like how I have to handle the fat topic with my fat friends, just ignore it and maybe it'll go away. Fucking childish ridiculousness.[/QUOTE]
sorry what does this have to do with anything? your friend is tired of hearing you talk about obesity so stop talking about it. pretty simple solution to your problem don't you think?
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347292]And sure you've ignored, misinterpreted, and twisted my words from the other thread to fit whatever you want to think about me just like you've done in this thread, so why do I even bother.[/QUOTE]
mm no lol don't even pretend, what i said is in no way "twisting your words" its a completely literal representation of what you said, you even proudly said "yeah i'm an asshole and i accept that" so let's not bullshit about me twisting your words
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347292]
[b]For the same reason that I used to defend against things that I wasn't comfortable with[/b], before I truly became comfortable with them. I have to reason to defend something that I feel is absolutely righteous and okay, that doesn't make any sense. And I use the word abomination because it's funny to me to use harsh words like that on a forum, but in reality I see it more like how I compared it to other compulsive behaviors, so of course I would never use such terminology in a real conversation. You don't help someone's addiction by calling them an asshole, of course I know that.[/QUOTE]
So you're just projecting then?
[QUOTE=Riller;39346023]Somewhat different, I'd say. You know. Because mental illness isn't caused by shoddy lifestyle.[/QUOTE]
His point is that the shoddy lifestyle is caused by a mental condition. It doesn't even need to be categorized as a illness to be outside of your choice.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;39347343]sorry what does this have to do with anything? your friend is tired of hearing you talk about obesity so stop talking about it. pretty simple solution to your problem don't you think?[/quote]
You've ignored several times that I've stated multiple times and without confusion that this is not the real situation in my life. Work on your reading comprehension.
[quote]mm no lol don't even pretend, what i said is in no way "twisting your words" its a completely literal representation of what you said, you even proudly said "yeah i'm an asshole and i accept that" so let's not bullshit about me twisting your words[/QUOTE]
If honesty makes me an asshole, yes, I admit to and accept being an asshole. That is my meaning. But of course it doesn't matter to you what I really mean, if it did, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39347355]So you're just projecting then?[/QUOTE]
The fact that you're getting so defensive about it and hounding me on it is proof enough that my projections hold true at least with you and probably with a huge portion of the population of obese people. If I were really just projecting and my projections had no validity to them whatsoever, you wouldn't be so out to prove me wrong.
[QUOTE=MountainWatcher;39347369]His point is that the shoddy lifestyle is caused by a mental condition. It doesn't even need to be categorized as a illness to be outside of your choice.[/QUOTE]
No I'm saying that the personal issues people face are just that - personal issues
Busybodies can fuck off
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347381]You've ignored several times that I've stated multiple times and without confusion that [B]this is not the real situation in my life[/B]. Work on your reading comprehension.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=J Paul;39346695]I have lots of fat friends and everyone gets offended and the room hushes up and shit feels awkward if I even insinuate or imply that it might be a bad thing that all of my friends are going to die at 40, and it shouldn't be that way.[/QUOTE]
??
so was this hypothetical or something? what are you on about dude
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347381]If honesty makes me an asshole, yes, I admit to and accept being an asshole. That is my meaning. But of course it doesn't matter to you what I really mean, if it did, we wouldn't be having this conversation.[/QUOTE]
you accept being honest about the fact that women are bitches and inferior to you makes you an asshole. you can keep playing the "twisted words" game, nobody cares or is convinced. you literally said women are bitches that's p much game over
There's these anti-gay religious fundies out there who claim to "hate the sin but love the sinner". That is, all their time spent running around shouting faggot and voting against bills that would make gay people equal is all a kind-hearted attempt to save the gays from eternal damnation. After all, they love you, and just want you to be a good upstanding straight christian who goes to heaven. They'd call it tough love probably. After all, they truly believe that homosexuality is dangerous because a big mean god is lurking around the corner, ready to turn them into salt at a moment's notice.
But we pretty much know they're full of shit right? They just want reasons to divide people and find new groups to hate.
Where the hell am I going with this? Re-read the thread and see...
[QUOTE=Kopimi;39347424]??
so was this hypothetical or something? what are you on about dude
you accept being honest about the fact that women are bitches and inferior to you makes you an asshole. you can keep playing the "twisted words" game, nobody cares or is convinced. you literally said women are bitches that's p much game over[/QUOTE]
I've clearly been trolled. I apologize for responding to this poster and polluting the thread. I should have known I was being trolled by his blatant disregard for grammatical tense, context, and explicit details.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39347440]There's these anti-gay religious fundies out there who claim to "hate the sin but love the sinner". That is, all their time spent running around shouting faggot and voting against bills that would make gay people equal is all a kind-hearted attempt to save the gays from eternal damnation. After all, they love you, and just want you to be a good upstanding straight christian who goes to heaven. They'd call it tough love probably. After all, they truly believe that homosexuality is dangerous because a big mean god is lurking around the corner, ready to turn them into salt at a moment's notice.
But we pretty much know they're full of shit right? They just want reasons to divide people and find new groups to hate.
Where the hell am I going with this? Re-read the thread and see...[/QUOTE]
There's a clear difference; Homosexuality isn't an epidemic-level health problem.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347480]I've clearly been trolled. I apologize for responding to this poster and polluting the thread. I should have known I was being trolled by his blatant disregard for grammatical tense, context, and explicit details.
There's a clear difference; Homosexuality isn't an epidemic-level health problem.[/QUOTE]
wahh stop holding me accountable for things i say, its not fair
there is a similarity between homosexuality and obesity though: it doesn't affect you! voila!
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347480]
There's a clear difference; Homosexuality isn't an epidemic-level health problem.[/QUOTE]
They firmly believe with all their hearts that it is. Hell, some of them believe it will lead to the destruction of the planet. That's all that's relevant.
There's a point where your concern for other people crosses the line and they have crossed it. You seem to cross it sometimes too.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;39347505]wahh stop holding me accountable for things i say, its not fair
there is a similarity between homosexuality and obesity though: it doesn't affect you! voila![/QUOTE]
You're doing just the opposite, you're not holding me accountable for things I say, because you've several times ignored the grammatical tense of what I say, the specific details I lay out when I say it, and the context in which those details were set.
And it does effect me. The fact that I'm probably only going to have 2 friends alive in my 40's and 50's over something that is entirely preventable and can be acted upon does directly effect my life.
i blame the parents
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347544]You're doing just the opposite, you're not holding me accountable for things I say, because you've several times ignored the grammatical tense of what I say, the specific details I lay out when I say it, and the context in which those details were set.
And it does effect me. The fact that I'm probably only going to have 2 friends alive in my 40's and 50's over something that is entirely preventable and can be acted upon does directly effect my life.[/QUOTE]
maybe instead of vaguely alluding to some hidden meaning i'm failing to pull from your posts you could just tell me what you actually said and what i'm missing so we can get on the same page
or no maybe you should just keep saying "no.. you don't understand what i'm saying!" over and over and over again surely that will solve the problem
[QUOTE=abcpea2;39347550]i blame the parents[/QUOTE]
You may be joking, it's hard to pull sarcasm from just text, but honestly this is the real root of the problem. That best friend I mentioned, his parents raised him to inhale food and then to look for more, that's just how he was brought up. At his house, because they were all fat, they'd eat early and often. His dinner would come in the early afternoon, he'd inhale it down, and then he'd come to my house and eat our dinner only hours later. And then I'm sure he'd go inhale some more food at his house.
There is a real problem here that needs to be addressed and "leave it alone and stop talking about it because you shouldn't give that much of a fuck about other people" is not a good answer.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;39347572]maybe instead of vaguely alluding to some hidden meaning i'm failing to pull from your posts you could just tell me what you actually said and what i'm missing so we can get on the same page
or no maybe you should just keep saying "no.. you don't understand what i'm saying!" over and over and over again surely that will solve the problem[/QUOTE]
Okay, I can give you the benefit of the doubt. You continuously imply that my friends are tired of it as if I bring it up all the time. Sure you get that feeling, because we're discussing it so it seems like we all have a lot of words for the topic. But I'm 21. I've been around enough years that I can have past experiences that don't have anything to do with my current setting. My relation of how defensive people get is mostly from when I've brought it up in the distant past, because just like you suggest, since they're clearly not open to hearing what I have to say, I stopped bringing these things up a long time ago. This was made clearly apparent by my grammatical tense and by the specific details I gave in my original posts. I'm talking about this on this forum to such an extent BECAUSE I've done what you say to do and stopped talking about it in real life.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347544]The fact that I'm probably only going to have 2 friends alive in my 40's and 50's[/QUOTE]
That's asinine for multiple reasons.
Your friends at 20 won't be your friends at 40, and being overweight doesn't take 30 years off your life
No one wants to be 300, 400 pounds and slimming up is the only good solution to your problem. I don't see a problem in this idea really, just people really need to grow backbones and realize the people saying these things have literally no effect on your life, well-being or anything of the such.
And before anyone tells me it's hard to lose weight, it really isn't. Getting a nice toned body is the hard part.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39347588]You may be joking, it's hard to pull sarcasm from just text, but honestly this is the real root of the problem. That best friend I mentioned, his parents raised him to inhale food and then to look for more, that's just how he was brought up. At his house, because they were all fat, they'd eat early and often. His dinner would come in the early afternoon, he'd inhale it down, and then he'd come to my house and eat our dinner only hours later. And then I'm sure he'd go inhale some more food at his house.
There is a real problem here that needs to be addressed and "leave it alone and stop talking about it because you shouldn't give that much of a fuck about other people" is not a good answer.[/QUOTE]
Calling fat people abominations, alluding to how they "inhale" food, you're just a rude person you know that right? It's a wonder you have any friends at all with this kind of attitude. If you lose your friends at 40 it won't be because of obesity.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39347654]Calling fat people abominations, alluding to how they "inhale" food, you're just a rude person you know that right? It's a wonder you have any friends at all with this kind of attitude. If you lose your friends at 40 it won't be because of obesity.[/QUOTE]
As should be clearly apparent to you by your own rude posting style, the way in which we express ourselves in text on an internet forum has nothing to do with how we express ourselves in real social interactions.
Besides, he eats in 2 minutes what it takes me 20 minutes to eat. That, in my mind, is 'inhaling' food. So why do you get so offended and defensive about it? Maybe because deep down inside you know what a real problem it is and you're just bullshitting me.
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