Santorum: Doctors Providing Abortions To Rape And Incest Victims Should Be Arrested - Polidicks

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30483969]there is a physical world, and it exists somewhat independently of perception, but perception shapes the physical world completely, and in fact your own personal perception created the physical world at the same time the physical world created your personal perception again this is purely philosophical[/QUOTE] Your personal perception doesn't shape whats physical, only what is precieved as physical, what you precieve as physical when its not, isn't actually physical.

please don't derail this into philosophy. Keep talking about what a stupid douchebag santorum is

Fact is that which is based on what we are able to gather of this objective reality, and thus, fact is objective. Opinion is that which we know to be based on subjective perception, and is what we know does vary between 'personal realities.'

[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;30484029]Perception shapes the physical world [i]as we know it[/i], but that physical world is just that; perception. You are right that it is impossible to have a truly objective view of the world, but there is still an objective world there that we are basing our perceptions, and our 'personal realities' on.[/QUOTE] hmm il give you that there is a somewhat objective world that exists to house our sea of consciousnesses, and that there might be certain ground rules that govern this world but i think besides a basic group of rules(or tools) the objective physical world is largely irrelevant when i talk about perception shaping the world and the world being born when we do, i dont really completely live by that view, i feel it is more of a "for all intents and purposes thats what happened" sort of deal

[QUOTE=Lambeth;30484059]please don't derail this into philosophy. Keep talking about what a stupid douchebag santorum is[/QUOTE] We've derailed ourselves something awful here. I've made my point. I'll let the thread get back on track now.

[QUOTE=J!NX;30484042]Your personal perception doesn't shape whats physical, only what is precieved as physical, what you precieve as physical when its not, isn't actually physical.[/QUOTE] but whats the difference between what i perceive and what is real for my purposes? does it really matter if something is a different way than i can perceive it? in the end what we perceive is real, not necessarily what is objectively real [QUOTE=ThisGuy0;30484083]Fact is that which is based on what we are able to gather of this objective reality, and thus, fact is objective.[/QUOTE] but fact has to go through the subjective perception, the thing that we see and measure has to be measured by something completely subjective an objective fact cant live in a subjective mind

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30483969]there is a physical world, and it exists somewhat independently of perception, but perception shapes the physical world completely, and in fact your own personal perception created the physical world at the same time the physical world created your personal perception again this is purely philosophical[/QUOTE] This is you being wrong again. If the physical world is shaped entirely by your perception like you say it is then that means it doesn't actually exist outside of your mind, which is metaphysical idealism. I said before you can't point subjectively at something that is objective. You can't say 2+2 doesn't equal 4 because you feel that is wrong unless you are either thinking about it metaphysically or you are just an idiot.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30482916]i dont think i am[/QUOTE]I'm sorry, but thinking you're right doesn't automatically make you right. Which, oddly enough, was your argument. Even if you believe you're right, you're wrong, and believing you're right doesn't change that, because reality does not work that way. [QUOTE=yawmwen;30484091]il give you that there is a somewhat objective world that exists to house our sea of consciousnesses, and that there might be certain ground rules that govern this world but i think besides a basic group of rules(or tools) the objective physical world is largely irrelevant[/QUOTE] One such rule: F=ma. Or: things break when they are hit with a certain amount of force. Or: being hit by a car breaks you, whether you "percieve" it as doing such or not. Wait, how did we get to this topic, anyway. Let's just go back to what we were talking about before. Not "yah-huh" "nuh-uh" "yah-huh" "nuh-uh" on custody rates, but men being able to veto women's choices. Which is fucking stupid.

i believe a woman's temple gives her the right to choose but baby don't abort

[QUOTE=Last or First;30484611] Let's just go back to what we were talking about before. Not "yah-huh" "nuh-uh" "yah-huh" "nuh-uh" on custody rates, but men being able to veto women's choices. Which is fucking stupid.[/QUOTE]Yeah I miss that discussion. On that subject, yawmwen you believe that the man who impregnated a women should be able to veto a women's decision on whether or not they get an abortion. Since your reasoning for this is because the man's genetic code is in the fetus, does this mean you also believe the women's and man's parents should get a say in this too? Or their grandparents? It's some of their genetic material too. Should we have some sort of court where blood relatives can vote on whether or not an abortion will happen or not, each of their vote worth how much of their genes passed on to the fetus? [editline]16th June 2011[/editline] And what if this court votes for the abortion but the woman votes against it? According to you that woman's body would be their property until it no longer contains the baby.

Yawmwen has single handedly made this topic reach 11 pages with no posters actually joining the argument on his side.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30480917] because its the fathers child as well [/QUOTE] Mother says "I want an abortion" Father says "I don't want you to have one" Your proposal? Father gets final say How is that not misogynistic? How does it promote equality, as you said earlier? Are you dense? Rhetorical question of course you are I think it's time to stop being upset over the fact your girlfriend didn't hand you her personal sovereignty on a silver platter

[QUOTE=Zeke129;30486228]Mother says "I want an abortion" Father says "I don't want you to have one" Your proposal? Father gets final say How is that not misogynistic? How does it promote equality, as you said earlier? Are you dense?[/quote] because it gives the man an equal say in the death of a child. [quote]Rhetorical question of course you are I think it's time to stop being upset over the fact your girlfriend didn't hand you her personal sovereignty on a silver platter[/QUOTE] i think its time you you to realise that a woman has no right to murder a fathers child [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;30486007]Yawmwen has single handedly made this topic reach 11 pages with no posters actually joining the argument on his side.[/QUOTE] those who fight for freedom and equality are often the minority [editline]16th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;30485770]Yeah I miss that discussion. On that subject, yawmwen you believe that the man who impregnated a women should be able to veto a women's decision on whether or not they get an abortion. Since your reasoning for this is because the man's genetic code is in the fetus, does this mean you also believe the women's and man's parents should get a say in this too? Or their grandparents? It's some of their genetic material too. Should we have some sort of court where blood relatives can vote on whether or not an abortion will happen or not, each of their vote worth how much of their genes passed on to the fetus?[/QUOTE] they arent the direct parent of the child so no i mean thats not how it works in the real world anyways, extended family dont get a say in custody of a child, its between the legal system and the two parents

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30484129]an objective fact cant live in a subjective mind[/QUOTE] Goddammit, you guys broke his empiricism stator and now his philosophy coupler can't get past middle school solipsism. Somebody toss me a wrench, a couple paperclips, and one of those little hospital pudding cups. [editline]15th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;30487150]because it gives the man an equal say in the death of a child. i think its time you you to realise that a woman has no right to murder a fathers child[/QUOTE] Why do you deserve an equal say in the affairs of someone else's body? You contributed sperm, nothing else. Unless that fluid is so sacred to you that you worship every tissue you beat off into, you're being logically inconsistent.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30487150]because it gives the man an equal say in the death of a child. those who fight for freedom and equality are often the minority [editline]16th June 2011[/editline] [/QUOTE] 1) It does not give an equal say because after all it is apart of the woman and not the man, what you're doing is making a decision that is going to physically alter the woman along with causing mental and emotional stress, It's not equality. 2) Freedom applies to things with a brain and are capable of thinking for themselves, a fetus does not. Your thinking of Equality is bullshit. You are the minority but you're not fighting for the freedom and equality. We are, and we're the majority from the looks of everyone going against your misogynist beliefs.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30487150]because it gives the man an equal say in the death of a child. i think its time you you to realise that a woman has no right to murder a fathers child those who fight for freedom and equality are often the minority[/QUOTE] Unless if you're talking about an abortion a week or two before the child would be born (which the VAST VAST VAST majority of abortions AREN'T), then abortion is not the same as murder. Oh, and even if it was, it would still also be giving the man an equal say in an incredibly invasive and emotional procedure that takes place within the woman. "More of you are calling me an idiot than are backing me up; therefore, I must be fighting for freedom and equality, and thus am right" [QUOTE=Xenocidebot;30487213]Somebody toss me a wrench, a couple paperclips, and one of those little hospital pudding cups.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8yzcPvG6Ek[/media]

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;30487213] Why do you deserve an equal say in the affairs of someone else's body?[/quote] because the child is both the mothers and fathers [quote]You contributed sperm, nothing else. Unless that fluid is so sacred to you that you worship every tissue you beat off into, you're being logically inconsistent.[/QUOTE] um no because sperm isnt a living child [QUOTE=Keyblockor;30487246]1) It does not give an equal say because after all it is apart of the woman and not the man, what you're doing is making a decision that is going to physically alter the woman along with causing mental and emotional stress, It's not equality.[/quote] i already said the man should pay for what the woman needs in that situation [quote]2) Freedom applies to things with a brain and are capable of thinking for themselves, a fetus does not.[/quote] a fetus does have a brain, and thinking for itself is not applicable because retards and infants cannot think for themselves and they are considered to have rights [quote]Your thinking of Equality is bullshit. You are the minority but you're not fighting for the freedom and equality. We are, and we're the majority from the looks of everyone going against your misogynist beliefs.[/QUOTE] actually your for the execution of someone elses child, and rationalising it by saying it is not as smart or mature as you, and therefore worthless. you are literally as bad as any bigot calling for genocide [editline]16th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Last or First;30487280]Unless if you're talking about an abortion a week or two before the child would be born (which the VAST VAST VAST majority of abortions AREN'T), then abortion is not the same as murder.[/quote] if its a late term abortion you are killing a human life capable of conscious thought [quote]Oh, and even if it was, it would still also be giving the man an equal say in an incredibly invasive and emotional procedure that takes place within the woman.[/quote] so? to protect a persons innocent child it is most definitely ok [quote]"More of you are calling me an idiot than are backing me up; therefore, I must be fighting for freedom and equality, and thus am right" [/QUOTE] "i am on the majority side that means i must be right"

[QUOTE=Zeke129;30486228]Mother says "I want an abortion" Father says "I don't want you to have one" Your proposal? Father gets final say How is that not misogynistic? How does it promote equality, as you said earlier? Are you dense? Rhetorical question of course you are I think it's time to stop being upset over the fact your girlfriend didn't hand you her personal sovereignty on a silver platter[/QUOTE] Honestly? if I had a wife who wanted a kid with me, we decided to have a child, if she decided she doesn't want it a month in and gets an abortion, then I'm perfectly fine with that. She's the one that ha to carry it around, then crap it out, not me, not my decision, I may dislike it, but it's still not my body, and not my decision. [QUOTE=yawmwen;30487321]a fetus does have a brain, and thinking for itself is not applicable because retards and infants cannot think for themselves and they are considered to have rights[/QUOTE] So its settled... yawmwen can't think for himself.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30487321]a fetus does have a brain, and thinking for itself is not applicable because retards and infants cannot think for themselves and they are considered to have rights[/QUOTE] My autistic brother can think for himself just fine thank you.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;30487385]My autistic brother can think for himself just fine thank you.[/QUOTE] i said a retard, not an autistic child

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30487414]i said a retard, not an autistic child[/QUOTE] autism is mental retardation. Are you kidding me? GaHAhaahahahaahaha!

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[QUOTE=J!NX;30487430]autism is mental retardation. Are you fucking kidding me? GaHAhaahahahaahaha![/QUOTE] lol no its not your dumb

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30487321]because the child is both the mothers and fathers um no because sperm isnt a living child i already said the man should pay for what the woman needs in that situation a fetus does have a brain, and thinking for itself is not applicable because retards and infants cannot think for themselves and they are considered to have rights actually your for the execution of someone elses child, and rationalising it by saying it is not as smart or mature as you, and therefore worthless. you are literally as bad as any bigot calling for genocide[/QUOTE] A bigot for the execution of someone elses child? And the decision is made by the woman who is pregnant and wishes the fetus to be gone? And how does that equate someone wanting to do something to their body to genocide? Your comparisons suck. What you say about the man should pay for what the woman needs in that situation. No, what you might think should happen isn't going to happen, the father is most likely fickle and the relationship is already soured due to the sides of the topic and you have two people who will hate each other for the rest of their lives not wanting anything to do with each other. Because one wanted to kill "someone elses baby" and the other is forcing the woman to carry it on the context that if she doesn't she will go to court / prison or end up in an abusive relationship. A fetus in its early months does not have a brain, and the difference between a fetus and a mentally handicapped person along with children is this. The mentally handicapped and infants are independant from the mother on a basis [B]and that they are capable of at least some thought that concerns their independant person.[/B] [editline]16th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;30487471]lol no its not your dumb[/QUOTE] [B]how dumb are you, there are tons of valid sources saying that autism effects the brain and it's clear that it does.[/B]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30487321] a fetus does have a brain, and thinking for itself is not applicable because retards and infants cannot think for themselves and they are considered to have rights actually your for the execution of someone elses child, and rationalising it by saying it is not as smart or mature as you, and therefore worthless. you are literally as bad as any bigot calling for genocide [editline]16th June 2011[/editline] "i am on the majority side that means i must be right"[/QUOTE] Uh. No. None of us think any of this. A fetus is not the same as a living breathing walking human being, or a new born baby. It's not the same. It's undergone many many changes over that time period, it is considerably different. And no one is saying that "the execution of someone elses child" it is no ones child until it is out of the mother. It is a parasite inside the woman that is chosen to be cared for. No one is saying it's worthless either, but the man doesn't get a say because his genetic fluid is in her. So a man should naturally be paying for those things and that would be assumed by the law? Do you know how often this doesn't happen? Using the minority majority point is fucking stupid and you know that. It goes both ways, just because you're a minority doesn't make you right and just because we're a majority doesn't make us right. It's just stunning that out of the large ITN base, that no one has come in here to back you up. It's not fault of your arguments I'm sure, but you're not even considering other ideas because your using emotionality as the base for your arguments and the justification. You say i'm out of touch with myself for not being emotional about my politics and my issues? You couldn't be more wrong. You couldn't be making more assumptions and just spouting more "lalalalallaal i'm right i'm right".

[QUOTE=Keyblockor;30487473] [B]how dumb are you, there are tons of valid sources saying that autism effects the brain and it's clear that it does.[/B][/QUOTE] so? of course it effects the brain its not mental retardation

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30487521]so? of course it effects the brain its not mental retardation[/QUOTE] I'm used to retard being a word for mental disabilities in general.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30487321] "i am on the majority side that means i must be right"[/QUOTE] What you just said in mockery about me is what you said about yourself, Ironic. I do not see myself as right because of the fact that i'm on the majority. I see myself as right because i'm against someone who has misogynist ideals saying that a man has more right over the woman than the woman has for herself while pregnant.

[QUOTE=Keyblockor;30487473]A bigot for the execution of someone elses child? And the decision is made by the woman who is pregnant and wishes the fetus to be gone? And how does that equate someone wanting to do something to their body to genocide? Your comparisons suck.[/quote] you justify murder on the basis that the one being killed is inferior to you [quote]The mentally handicapped and infants are independant from the mother on a basis [B]and that they are capable of at least some thought that concerns their independant person.[/B][/QUOTE] so is a fetus around 20 weeks

[QUOTE=yawmwen;30487556]you justify murder on the basis that the one being killed is inferior to you so is a fetus around 20 weeks[/QUOTE] [B]No the fetus does not have thought that concerns their independant person because it is still in the womb attached to the mother. [/B]