[QUOTE=reedbo;24425142]Death penalty should be for murderers of 2 or more people. Otherwise, I'd rather not have people locked up for the rest of their life leeching off of the publics tax money.
It's bullshit. Why should we be providing murderers with a place to sleep, stay and live along with free meals every day?
As far as I'm concerned, as soon as you take someone else's rights away through murder then you're throwing your rights away.[/QUOTE]
Executions cost more than a life in prison.
[QUOTE=BmB;24425150]When you choose to go into combat you decide that you are ok with your enemy dying. When you put someone on death row you decide that they are ok to die. It is the same scale that weighs either of these issues.[/QUOTE]
Warfare is different because your enemy also wants you to die, it's a rational reaction to kill someone trying to kill you.
Does this make war ok? No, but still.
Also, you people bringing up the Norwegian prison system are horribly mis informed.
The reason the crime rates in Norway (specifically Oslo) are so low, is because there is almost no personal crime in Norway. Drug offenders are considered a "health and social" problem, not a criminal problem. There goes a huge chunk of the crime rate.
Norway has a [b]huge[/b] drug scene too. You have many addicts over there.
Prostitution was only recently made illegal, and it is still a MAJOR problem in the cities as well as pickpocketing (notorious in Oslo).
Also, I love how you praise Norway as having a [b]great[/b] legal system when the rape rate is almost [b]6 times higher than that of New York City![/b]
Yeah, fucking great system they have going over there. I'm pretty liberal when it comes to social problems, but when it comes to crime, I'm not.
[QUOTE=reedbo;24425142]Death penalty should be for murderers of 2 or more people. Otherwise, I'd rather not have people locked up for the rest of their life leeching off of the publics tax money.
It's bullshit. Why should we be providing murderers with a place to sleep, stay and live along with free meals every day?
As far as I'm concerned, as soon as you take someone else's rights away through murder then you're throwing your rights away.[/QUOTE]
You clearly don't see the problem with this. EVERYONE would end up with no rights if you did this. You violate someones rights? You lose yours, in order to get rid of that person, you violate your own rights and someone has to kill you.
Problem? Not for blood thirsty people.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24425180]Warfare is different because your enemy also wants you to die, it's a rational reaction to kill someone trying to kill you.
Does this make war ok? No, but still.[/QUOTE]
Only if you are on the defensive. Everything the US and NATO does now for example, is entirely by choice. We don't need to defend ourselves from anything, we're just killing people because we think they need to die. It is the enemy who are justified in defending themselves.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;24425165]once more with this stupid eye for an eye bullshit. rights are rights.
ps. it costs more in court and legal fees to execute them than it does to keep them in prison.[/QUOTE]
Why should we treat someone who takes someone else's life away like they're an average honest citizen who actually deserves his/her rights?
And the part about court fees is bullshit.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425181]Also, you people bringing up the Norwegian prison system are horribly mis informed.
The reason the crime rates in Norway (specifically Oslo) are so low, is because there is almost no personal crime in Norway. Drug offenders are considered a "health and social" problem, not a criminal problem. There goes a huge chunk of the crime rate.
Norway has a [B]huge[/B] drug scene too. You have many addicts over there.
Prostitution was only recently made illegal, and it is still a MAJOR problem in the cities as well as pickpocketing (notorious in Oslo).
Also, I love how you praise Norway as having a [B]great[/B] legal system when the rape rate is almost [B]6 times higher than that of New York City![/B]
Yeah, fucking great system they have going over there. I'm pretty liberal when it comes to social problems, but when it comes to crime, I'm not.[/QUOTE]
you act like it's a bad thing drug offenders are not considered criminals.
as opposed to the US's legal system?
maybe they have a lower crime rate because they treat people like human fucking beings instead of animals.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425181]Also, you people bringing up the Norwegian prison system are horribly mis informed.
The reason the crime rates in Norway (specifically Oslo) are so low, is because there is almost no personal crime in Norway. Drug offenders are considered a "health and social" problem, not a criminal problem. There goes a huge chunk of the crime rate.
Norway has a [b]huge[/b] drug scene too. You have many addicts over there.
Prostitution was only recently made illegal, and it is still a MAJOR problem in the cities as well as pickpocketing (notorious in Oslo).
Also, I love how you praise Norway as having a [b]great[/b] legal system when the rape rate is almost [b]6 times higher than that of New York City![/b]
Yeah, fucking great system they have going over there. I'm pretty liberal when it comes to social problems, but when it comes to crime, I'm not.[/QUOTE]
Drugs and prostitution should both be [b]legal.[/b]
Not all drugs, but most. Crime rates change then. Addicts? Not a jail problem.
I praise Norways system because it does work better than the US's one. Are you saying that the US's is better? That punishment works better? It clearly doesn't when you look at the world.
[QUOTE=reedbo;24425206]Why should we treat someone who takes someone else's life away like they're an average honest citizen who actually deserves his/her rights?
And the part about court fees is bullshit.[/QUOTE]
No it's not
[QUOTE=reedbo;24425206]Why should we treat someone who takes someone else's life away like they're an average honest citizen who actually deserves his/her rights?
And the part about court fees is bullshit.[/QUOTE]
because rights aren't a fucking privilege that you bestow to people you like. they're RIGHTS, what's hard to understand about that word.
uh, no it's not. the appeals and costs to convict someone to execution run in the 2-5 million dollar range.
[QUOTE=reedbo;24425206]Why should we treat someone who takes someone else's life away like they're an average honest citizen who actually deserves his/her rights?
And the part about court fees is bullshit.[/QUOTE]
No, the court fees part is not bullshit. How is it bullshit?
Because [b]what point does it serve to kill them?[/b]
In combat we are told that it's ok that we kill the enemy, it's our job, it is war a truly frightful thing. I personally wouldn't feel to great afterwards, taking a life is not something that dwells well in the mind.
Killing an unarmed prisoner is another thing altogether he is not charging at you, he has been charged and is to be executed via the law, this is something which I find more distasteful.
[QUOTE=reedbo;24425206]Why should we treat someone who takes someone else's life away like they're an average honest citizen who actually deserves his/her rights?[/QUOTE]
Because they aren't evil. They are just people like you and me.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24425220]Drugs and prostitution should both be [b]legal.[/b]
Not all drugs, but most. Crime rates change then. Addicts? Not a jail problem.
I praise Norways system because it does work better than the US's one. Are you saying that the US's is better? That punishment works better? It clearly doesn't when you look at the world.[/QUOTE]
Crime is rampant in Norway, therefore the legal system is great.
Oh, and (most) drugs and prostitution [b]are[/b] illegal over there. Yet they have a fucking infestation of both along with a horrible rate of rape.
You call that a good legal system?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24424976]So your argument is "Look at all the other bad things! does it matter that we have this particular bad thing?".
BRILLIANT![/QUOTE]
You ignore the fact that they die anyways, and point out the fact that I bring up further cases of human rights violations/exceptions. As I said in the last part of that post, exceptions and violations will happen all the time, and bad things are going to happen in the world. It's something that can never be changed, there will always be some "bad thing" happening, as "bad thing" is another term open to much interpretation. You can't stop them from happening. It doesn't mean you shouldn't try to stop them, but it will never happen, there will always be a "bad thing", there will always be a human rights violation, even if all exceptions are eliminated.
It became evident to me quite some time ago, your opinion cannot be swain, nor did I expect it to. Further argument will likely serve no purpose and degrade to insults at some point. For this reason, I shall agree to disagree with you, and stop arguing my point further, as by this point it is down to our personal interpretations of things, which are nigh impossible to change.
I do not expect you to extend this courtesy to me, as you likely see me as a barbaric moron, who is blatantly wrong and a menace to modern society, and you could very well interpret this as a victory in your favour. If this is what you choose to do, go ahead, claim yourself victorious, however I shan't change my opinions on the death penalty, nor has your argument made me consider such, nor does it mean that the death penalty is irrefutably wrong; as though you see it as wrong, or even if it is wrong, there will always be someone there to refute whether it is wrong or right. While I don't expect you to extend the same courtesy, I would hope you choose to.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425259]Crime is rampant in Norway, therefore the legal system is great.
Oh, and (most) drugs and prostitution [b]are[/b] illegal over there. Yet they have a fucking infestation of both along with a horrible rate of rape.
You call that a good legal system?[/QUOTE]
No, the prison system is what I idolize out of there.
[QUOTE=Bluefire;24425031]This is just my opinion, don't interpret it as trolling or anything please, I don't want idiotic statements such as "clearly you're an idiot for believing that" crap... *snipped*
[/QUOTE]
My view exactly.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24425275]No, the prison system is what I idolize out of there.[/QUOTE]
Or the lack there of?
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;24425272]You ignore the fact that they die anyways, and point out the fact that I bring up further cases of human rights violations/exceptions. As I said in the last part of that post, exceptions and violations will happen all the time, and bad things are going to happen in the world. It's something that can never be changed, there will always be some "bad thing" happening, as "bad thing" is another term open to much interpretation. You can't stop them from happening. It doesn't mean you shouldn't try to stop them, but it will never happen, there will always be a "bad thing", there will always be a human rights violation, even if all exceptions are eliminated.
It became evident to me quite some time ago, your opinion cannot be swain, nor did I expect it to. Further argument will likely serve no purpose and degrade to insults at some point. For this reason, I shall agree to disagree with you, and stop arguing my point further, as by this point it is down to our personal interpretations of things, which are nigh impossible to change.
I do not expect you to extend this courtesy to me, as you likely see me as a barbaric moron, who is blatantly wrong and a menace to modern society, and you could very well interpret this as a victory in your favour. If this is what you choose to do, go ahead, claim yourself victorious, however I shan't change my opinions on the death penalty, nor has your argument made me consider such, nor does it mean that the death penalty is irrefutably wrong; as though you see it as wrong, or even if it is wrong, there will always be someone there to refute whether it is wrong or right. While I don't expect you to extend the same courtesy, I would hope you choose to.[/QUOTE]
You want to kill killers.
Why should my point be swain when you haven't provided reasonable evidence that eye for an eye works? You haven't, but I should believe you?
I don't think any of that. I disagree with you, and think that eye for an eye is a blood thirsty view to hold. Doesn't mean I think that stuff about you. I disagree with you.
Trap doors? EPIC
I thought those were only in cartoons and action movies.
Public Service Announcement:
[highlight]CRIMINALS ARE NOT EVIL!
CRIMINALS ARE NOT EVIL!
CRIMINALS ARE NOT EVIL!
CRIMINALS ARE NOT EVIL!
CRIMINALS ARE NOT EVIL![/highlight]
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425298]Or the lack there of?[/QUOTE]
The rehabilitation system...
OH RIGHT!
You think it's stupid to try and help people rather than just punish them! Brilliant.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425298]Or the lack there of?[/QUOTE]
which is working better than the US's?
You know, after reading these threads, I always noticed that killing a killer is "wrong" because it's hypocritical. Is there something fundamentally wrong with being hypocritical by enforcing this line of thought? I don't think it's fair that someone who voluntarily takes away someone's rights to life should deserve the same treatment as an average citizen (after they get trialed, of course.)
But nevertheless, I'm against the death penalty because the court system is not perfect and it costs even more money than sticking someone in prison for life.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;24425326]which is working better than the US's?[/QUOTE]
So much better that people are being raped 6 times as often in probably the worst city in America. :v:
[QUOTE=Flitchaye;24425340]You know, after reading these threads, I always noticed that killing a killer is "wrong" because it's hypocritical. Is there something fundamentally wrong with being hypocritical by enforcing this line of thought? I don't think it's fair that someone who voluntarily takes away someone's rights to life should deserve the same treatment as an average citizen (after they get trialed, of course.)
But nevertheless, I'm against the death penalty because the court system is not perfect and it costs even more money than sticking someone in prison for life.[/QUOTE]
it's wrong because rights aren't something you can just bestow upon people or take them away as you see fit. they're RIGHTS.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425259]Crime is rampant in Norway, therefore the legal system is great.
Oh, and (most) drugs and prostitution [b]are[/b] illegal over there. Yet they have a fucking infestation of both along with a horrible rate of rape.
You call that a good legal system?[/QUOTE]
Why is it then, that their rate of rape per capita is three times lower than that of the US?
Stop using misleading evidence.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425353]So much better that people are being raped 6 times as often. :v:[/QUOTE]
as opposed to murders, thefts, drug use, robbery.
yeaaaah.
[url]http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/NO/crime.html[/url]
hardly rampant.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425353]So much better that people are being raped 6 times as often. :v:[/QUOTE]
Yeah! That's it! That's the only point we have! We don't have the point that rehabilitation works better than just straight punishment, no sir, we don't have that point.
Also, it's only new york you're comparing that to. Way to stack the evidence.
[QUOTE=Flitchaye;24425340]You know, after reading these threads, I always noticed that killing a killer is "wrong" because it's hypocritical. Is there something fundamentally wrong with being hypocritical by enforcing this line of thought? I don't think it's fair that someone who voluntarily takes away someone's rights to life should deserve the same treatment as an average citizen (after they get trialed, of course.)[/QUOTE]
Why? Just because you kill someone you don't become less of a human being, you're still a person just like you and me.
[highlight]CRIMINALS ARE NOT EVIL![/HIGHLIGHT]
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