[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425614]I love how you are the ultimate person who decides what is and what isn't a crime.[/QUOTE]
as opposed to you?
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425614]I love how you are the ultimate person who decides what is and what isn't a crime.[/QUOTE]
A crime is something that hurts someone or their property. Does my smoking pot make me a criminal? Does my having used cocaine and never hurt anyone on the effects of it make me a criminal? Under the real definition of it? [b]NO.[/b]
[editline]09:34PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;24425640]as opposed to you?[/QUOTE]
Seriously, I can't decide it, but you can?
[QUOTE=Leg of Doom]Everyone attacking the death penalty probably comes from shit countries [/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_KaUgFL6Ki44/TBLEdwq4LTI/AAAAAAAAAT0/7RUzDUHYdCI/s400/trollface_hd_523.jpg[/IMG]
Someone is trollin'
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24425306]You want to kill killers.
Why should my point be swain when you haven't provided reasonable evidence that eye for an eye works? You haven't, but I should believe you?
I don't think any of that. I disagree with you, and think that eye for an eye is a blood thirsty view to hold. Doesn't mean I think that stuff about you. I disagree with you.[/QUOTE]
I shan't argue my point in this, but rather clarify something:
Reasonable evidence is subjective; I feel I have, you feel I haven't. This is why these arguments are difficult, if not impossible, to win. One enters them with an idea of what is a "reasonable" amount of evidence, or what "reasonable evidence" is, and if it is not met, which it often isn't, the opposition's opinion shan't be swain. I never did expect to win the argument, but I did decide to try.
I didn't expect you to change your opinion, and I didn't expect you to believe me on the topic, but it would have been great for me if I had, and I respect you for having a very concrete, passionate, educated, [b]sensible[/b], and mostly respectful belief on a topic, even if it isn't the same as mine. I highlight sensible, because many people do have senseless opinions, with little or no support behind them, but still cling to them. I understand you may very well feel my opinion in this case is senseless, and that my support is inadequate to classify as sensible support, and you are entitled to think so if you do.
[QUOTE=teeheeV2;24425598]SOme people can not be rehabilitated from their ways though. only repeat offenders should be executed[/QUOTE]
That's incredibly ignorant. Save for those with debilitating mental issues, a killer of 7 is just the same a person as you are. If your life had taken a bad step and you ended up in a situation you couldn't resolve except with deadly force or you had made a bad judgement that put you in a helpless path that led you to taking lives, would you not want to be given the chance at redemption? Would you not want to be given the chance to repent your actions and make it up to society?
Or would you rather the angry mob line up with their idiotic hypocritical eye for an eye values and seeing you as an animal as you are strung up?
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;24425690]I shan't argue my point in this, but rather clarify something:
Reasonable evidence is subjective; I feel I have, you feel I haven't. This is why these arguments are difficult, if not impossible, to win. One enters them with an idea of what is a "reasonable" amount of evidence, or what "reasonable evidence" is, and if it is not met, which it often isn't, the opposition's opinion shan't be swain. I never did expect to win the argument, but I did decide to try.
I didn't expect you to change your opinion, and I didn't expect you to believe me on the topic, but it would have been great for me if I had, and I respect you for having a very concrete, passionate, educated, [b]sensible[/b], and mostly respectful belief on a topic, even if it isn't the same as mine. I highlight sensible, because many people do have senseless opinions, with little or no support behind them, but still cling to them. I understand you may very well feel my opinion in this case is senseless, and that my support is inadequate to classify as sensible support, and you are entitled to think so if you do.[/QUOTE]
I don't think your opinion is devoid of sense, I just don't see the sense in it.
Either way, I respect you.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24425619]What purpose does them dying serve.
[b]After all of this argument, no one has told me why their death serves a purpose. Why eye for an eye works.[/QUOTE]
I can give you reasons why they think it works, not that I agree.
1. It gives 0% chance that the offender would re-offend
2. Gives the victims and their families some sense of retribution.
3. Saves an already over crowded prison another inmate.
4. saves the state an amount of money used in lifetime incarceration.
5. Keeps other would be criminals a warning.
And thats all I can think of at the moment.
[QUOTE=Flitchaye;24425623]Society in whole dictates what human rights should be, whether it be Cold War era USSR or present-day Norway. I frankly cannot grasp the definition of whether human rights should be privileged or natural, since everyone has a different view on it. Society will always want to conform and list off the basic rights of everybody, but the view of the individual will always be different.
I think it's just a moot point as to defend someone's human rights if they violated someone's human rights voluntarily in the first place.[/QUOTE]
It's not even the important point in the argument.
And those who actually do kill because of debilitating mental issues, they are not criminals seeing as they are not responsible for their actions. They are criminally insane and need medical help.
-snip-
[QUOTE=Mabus;24425746]I can give you reasons why they think it works, not that I agree.
1. It gives 0% chance that the offender would re-offend
2. Gives the victims and their families some sense of retribution.[b]Possibly, but not all, and certainly not enough to warrant doing it.[/b]
3. Saves an already over crowded prison another inmate.[b]Release harmless offenders, problem solved[/b]
4. saves the state an amount of money used in lifetime incarceration.[b]Highly debatable, court costs are always excessive in these cases though. [/b]
5. Keeps other would be criminals a warning.[b]Fallacy.[/b]
And thats all I can think of at the moment.[/QUOTE]
Number one is the only valid one to be.
It's not valid, it's morally indefensible.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;24425607]where did you deduce this apparently 100% true conclusion. directly out of your ass?
laws like what? drug charges? why is murder and rape so low per capita? after all, that IS being enforced.[/QUOTE]
Rape is lower per capita, but the rate within the cities (where most people live), is atrocious and one of the worst rates around.
Violent crimes are on the rise and nothing is being done to stop this. The trend is getting worse and worse for Norway. They need a more strict system.
[QUOTE=Mabus;24425746]2. Gives the victims and their families some sense of retribution.[/quote]
So some family can get some sick sense of happiness from knowing that the state did just what the killer did to their family member?
[QUOTE=Mabus;24425746]3. Saves an already over crowded prison another inmate.[/quote]
Overcrowded due to the staggering amount of drug related convictions, yes.
[QUOTE=Mabus;24425746]4. saves the state an amount of money used in lifetime incarceration.[/quote]
It's more expensive to kill them than to keep them locked up. Edit: Err, you weren't ignoring this. Sorry.
[QUOTE=Mabus;24425746]5. Keeps other would be criminals a warning.[/QUOTE]
Except that warning has been proven time and time again not to be heeded. Countries with retribution as a legal guide rather than rehabilitation have higher crime rates.
[QUOTE=BmB;24425824]It's not valid, it's morally indefensible.[/QUOTE]
hey you never know, he could rise from the grave and continue his bloody rampage. :mmmhmm:
[QUOTE=that1dude24;24425850]So some family can get some sick sense of happiness from knowing that the state did just what the killer did to their family member?
Overcrowded due to the staggering amount of drug related convictions, yes.
It's more expensive to kill them than to keep them locked up. Why do you keep ignoring this?
Except that warning has been proven time and time again not to be heeded. Countries with retribution as a legal guide rather than rehabilitation have higher crime rates.[/QUOTE]
He's not on the pro capital punishment side.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425844]Rape is lower per capita, but the rate within the cities (where most people live), is atrocious and one of the worst rates around.
Violent crimes are on the rise and nothing is being done to stop this. The trend is getting worse and worse for Norway. They need a more strict system.[/QUOTE]
because a strict system is working out great for the US right guys.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425844]Rape is lower per capita, but the rate within the cities (where most people live), is atrocious and one of the worst rates around.
Violent crimes are on the rise and nothing is being done to stop this. The trend is getting worse and worse for Norway. They need a more strict system.[/QUOTE]
They don't need a more strict system, they need a system that works even better.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;24425873]because a strict system is working out great for the US right guys.[/QUOTE]
An 18% drop in crime since 2000? Yes, that it is working.
I find it odd how so many people can't just compromise for some of the idealogic differences of others. Atleast 50 - 60% of the whole thread has been Ad Hominem attacks =/
[QUOTE=Bluefire;24425688]
Someone is trollin'[/QUOTE]
Umm right i have observed something relating to a different opinion so its automatically trolling
I have observed that it's usually Canadians and Europeans who argue against the death penalty pulling all this human-rights bullshit which is hilariously ironic seeing as those are some of the most liberty deprived nations on earth.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24425872]He's not on the pro capital punishment side.[/QUOTE]
I know, but they aren't valid reasons.
[QUOTE=Mabus;24425861]hey you never know, he could rise from the grave and continue his bloody rampage. :mmmhmm:[/QUOTE]
I'd rather he didn't, as we would then have far greater problems than death penalties and crime rates.
Namely the zombie apocalypse. D:
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425844]Rape is lower per capita, but the rate within the cities (where most people live), is atrocious and one of the worst rates around.
Violent crimes are on the rise and nothing is being done to stop this. The trend is getting worse and worse for Norway. They need a more strict system.[/QUOTE]
As opposed to what? The US's system of "I smoked pot and am now incarcerated for 6 years?" The US's system of "If I kill someone I might die?". You do realize that gangs call it con college? That they're proud to go to jail because it toughens them up?
Ignore that fact one more time why don't you.
[QUOTE=Leg of Doom;24425895]Umm right i have observed something relating to a different opinion so its automatically trolling
I have observed that it's usually Canadians and Europeans who argue against the death penalty pulling all this human-rights bullshit which is hilariously ironic seeing as those are some of the most liberty deprived nations on earth.[/QUOTE]
I've lived in the U.S. my whole life.
[QUOTE=that1dude24;24425899]I know, but they aren't valid reasons.[/QUOTE]
Nope, not at all.
[editline]09:45PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Leg of Doom;24425895]Umm right i have observed something relating to a different opinion so its automatically trolling
I have observed that it's usually Canadians and Europeans who argue against the death penalty pulling all this human-rights bullshit which is hilariously ironic seeing as those are some of the most liberty deprived nations on earth.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, canada is liberty deprived.
Aren't you brilliant.
Ah liberty, my favorite buzz word. I also like the word Freedom, especially when it's yelled in Scottish accent.
[QUOTE=BmB;24425707]That's incredibly ignorant. Save for those with debilitating mental issues, a killer of 7 is just the same a person as you are. If your life had taken a bad step and you ended up in a situation you couldn't resolve except with deadly force or you had made a bad judgement that put you in a helpless path that led you to taking lives, would you not want to be given the chance at redemption? Would you not want to be given the chance to repent your actions and make it up to society?
Or would you rather the angry mob line up with their idiotic hypocritical eye for an eye values and seeing you as an animal as you are strung up?[/QUOTE]
Hey, you guys just going to ignore me every time I make a point that shatters your twisted worldview or what?!
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425891]An 18% drop in crime since 2000? Yes, that it is working.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that is solely the prison system at work. ignore everything else why don't you
[QUOTE=Funcoot;24425891]An 18% drop in crime since 2000? Yes, that it is working.[/QUOTE]
Hey I can pull statistics with no context and thus meaning out of my ass too. Except I won't because it's stupid.
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