[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24427575]You think they're evil? There is no such thing as evil.
I've been criminally assaulted before, do i think that the guy that did it was evil? NO. AND NOT EVERYONE DOES
IT IS A BASELESS AND WRONG ASSUMPTION.[/QUOTE]
I agree, and BmB is bringing it up for no reason whatsoever than that he is out of smart things to say
I don't understand where this notion that the criminal justice system is for the benefit of criminals came from.
[QUOTE=Leg of Doom;24427658]I don't understand where this notion that the criminal justice system is for the benefit of criminals came from.[/QUOTE]
I don't know why you're posting here baselessy and idiotically.
The prison system is for the benefit of society, like it or not, criminals are part of society and should be fixed to fit with society. Not just fucking killed. It isn't about helping the criminals, it's about what works better, does punishment work? NO.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24427646]Read the thread.
While most criminal offenders can be helped, some can not. Those that can not be helped should simply be locked up and not killed. Why the fuck do you have to kill them?
Why is facepunch filled with angsty teens who think blood lust is a good thing?[/QUOTE]
I think they should be given a choice on it.
Do they want execution or solitary confinement
[QUOTE=teeheeV2;24427698]I think they should be given a choice on it.
Do they want execution or solitary confinement[/QUOTE]
If it's their choice it's pretty much suicide, so I don't see why not, but it'd have to be well mitigated.
[QUOTE=Leg of Doom;24427658]I don't understand where this notion that the criminal justice system is for the benefit of criminals came from.[/QUOTE]
From being human?
[editline]07:27AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=teeheeV2;24427698]I think they should be given a choice on it.
Do they want execution or solitary confinement[/QUOTE]
Oh you're a fucking humanitarian, aren't you?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24427686] does punishment work? NO.[/QUOTE]
I kinda disagree with this. If I broke a rule, my mom would slap my shit and then I would think about why she would do that, and I would simply talk to her. I think punishment is dependent on the person. Hell, I didn't curse, or play M games till my mom felt I was mature enough. Maturity is a key thing when it comes down to it.
[QUOTE=Ghostz;24427733]I kinda disagree with this. If I broke a rule, my mom would slap my shit and then I would think about why she would do that, and I would simply talk to her. I think punishment is dependent on the person. Hell, I didn't curse, or play M games till my mom felt I was mature enough. Maturity is a key thing when it comes down to it.[/QUOTE]
When dealing with a kid it's different than a prison I'm sure. Prison is used as a training tool as it is now for convicts. Convicts in gangs are HAPPY to go to jail and be put through it because they come out harder than before and serve more purpose for their gangs. This alone is proof that a punishment based system doesn't work.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24427536]Not exactly. You got those chemicals through feeding yourself which is a cyclical until you get back to the first time you ate, when you clearly didn't have free will, as a baby.
Free will is really an illusion if you look at things from a physics/chemistry based view.[/QUOTE]
Even if all human thought is based on chemical processes, that still doesn't change the fact that we can't manipulate it to our every whim with our current technology.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24427686]I don't know why you're posting here baselessy and idiotically.
The prison system is for the benefit of society, like it or not, criminals are part of society and should be fixed to fit with society. Not just fucking killed. It isn't about helping the criminals, it's about what works better, does punishment work? NO.[/QUOTE]
We see eye to eye here then. Punishment doesn't work most of the time, rehab does 99% of the time.
[QUOTE=froztshock;24427774]Even if all human thought is based on chemical processes, that still doesn't change the fact that we can't manipulate it to our every whim with our current technology.[/QUOTE]
I never said we could. My only point when saying that was that free will was non-existent.
[QUOTE=Ghostz;24427733]I kinda disagree with this. If I broke a rule, my mom would slap my shit and then I would think about why she would do that, and I would simply talk to her. I think punishment is dependent on the person. Hell, I didn't curse, or play M games till my mom felt I was mature enough. Maturity is a key thing when it comes down to it.[/QUOTE]
Punishment has a tiny sucess rate as opposed to Rehabilitation.
520 post in only 4 hours :psyduck:
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24427762]When dealing with a kid it's different than a prison I'm sure. Prison is used as a training tool as it is now for convicts. Convicts in gangs are HAPPY to go to jail and be put through it because they come out harder than before and serve more purpose for their gangs. This alone is proof that a punishment based system doesn't work.[/QUOTE]
I agree there. My hat off to you good sir.
[QUOTE=teeheeV2;24427779]We see eye to eye here then. Punishment doesn't work most of the time, rehab does 99% of the time.[/QUOTE]
I believe we've seen eye to eye for most of this thread that we've both been in.
from an economic standpoint execution is a lot cheaper than holding the prisoner. we just cant afford to hold them anymore.
i dont support it as being moral, but we need to find another way besides prisons and executions
[QUOTE=Broseph_;24427793]520 post in only 4 hours :psyduck:[/QUOTE]
It's almost all my fault I think.
It's what I get for having pulled my neck and being stuck in bed all day.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24427708]If it's their choice it's pretty much suicide, so I don't see why not, but it'd have to be well mitigated.[/QUOTE]
And they should get visitation from family, but at large intervals. I'd choose execution over seeing my family for an hour once a month as the only human contact I get
[QUOTE=Ghostz;24427798]I agree there. My hat off to you good sir.[/QUOTE]
Thank you kind sir :respek:
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24427686]It isn't about helping the criminals, it's about what works better[/QUOTE]
The death penalty is likely to be more successful at stopping individuals who disrupt the lives of law abiding people from society when compared to rehabilitation. It also ensures they can't re offend. It is fairer on the tax payer.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24427646]
Why is facepunch filled with angsty teens who think blood lust is a good thing?[/QUOTE]
I'm not a teen and I did read the read, it's basically all life is worth living etc. the same stuff that gets repeated on every single thread like this to no end. "Killing killers is wrong", yeah I got that 10 threads ago. It's not "blood lust", I don't feel any enjoyment for death nor do I want to see anyone die, death IS a bad thing, but why should society pay for some mentally fucked up person for possibly decades (and I am talking about those who are actually diagnosed with something incurable).
There will always be murderers, saving their lives is not going to solve anything and neither is killing them. There will never be a perfect world of happiness and in the end we just need to make sure the society remains safe for the law abiding, not necessarily fair.
[QUOTE=Warhol;24427709]From being human?
[editline]07:27AM[/editline]
Oh you're a fucking humanitarian, aren't you?[/QUOTE]
Only way to stop a pedophile who can't be rehabilitated and inserted back into society from getting killed 100% of the time. If you give him a life sentence, the other prisoners will beat the shit out of him.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24427801]I believe we've seen eye to eye for most of this thread that we've both been in.[/QUOTE]
Now that I think about it, yes we have.
[QUOTE=teeheeV2;24427814]And they should get visitation from family, but at large intervals. I'd choose execution over seeing my family for an hour once a month as the only human contact I get[/QUOTE]
Lots of little things in the prison system need changing, let alone the whole system.
Visitation in a rehabilitation prison system would be beneficial if the family was supportive I imagine.
[editline]11:34PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zestence;24427840]I'm not a teen and I did read the read, it's basically all life is worth living etc. the same stuff that gets repeated on every single thread like this to no end. "Killing killers is wrong", yeah I got that 10 threads ago. It's not "blood lust", I don't feel any enjoyment for death nor do I want to see anyone die, death IS a bad thing, but why should society pay for some mentally fucked up person for possibly decades (and I am talking about those who are actually diagnosed with something incurable).
There will always be murderers, saving their lives is not going to solve anything and neither is killing them. There will never be a perfect world of happiness and in the end we just need to make sure the society remains safe for the law abiding, not necessarily fair.[/QUOTE]
Some people can never be saved, I agree. But what does killing them do? If they want to die, then fine, let them die. Otherwise, no.
[editline]11:34PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=teeheeV2;24427848]Now that I think about it, yes we have.[/QUOTE]
:respek: my good sir.
[QUOTE=Zestence;24427840]I'm not a teen and I did read the read, it's basically all life is worth living etc. the same stuff that gets repeated on every single thread like this to no end. "Killing killers is wrong", yeah I got that 10 threads ago. It's not "blood lust", I don't feel any enjoyment for death nor do I want to see anyone die, death IS a bad thing, but why should society pay for some mentally fucked up person for possibly decades (and I am talking about those who are actually diagnosed with something incurable).
There will always be murderers, saving their lives is not going to solve anything and neither is killing them. There will never be a perfect world of happiness and in the end we just need to make sure the society remains safe for the law abiding, not necessarily fair.[/QUOTE]
This is a valid point.
no matter how insane and mentally retarded they are, they are still people. Just not normally functioning.
See how much better it is when BmB isn't going crazy with his BS?
[QUOTE=Leg of Doom;24427837]The death penalty is likely to be more successful at stopping individuals who disrupt the lives of law abiding people from society when compared to rehabilitation. It also ensures they can't re offend. It is fairer on the tax payer.[/QUOTE]
1. No. Fallacy. People do not think to stop themselves committing a crime simply because they could die, not to mention, it's an impossible statistic to ever get a hold of therefore it holds no bearing.
2. Not really. It's far more expensive to prove someones guilt/innocence than to just incarcerate them. Want to cut down on tax payer costs? let out people who are in jail for possession of marijuana. Half the prison costs come from them.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24427851]Lots of little things in the prison system need changing, let alone the whole system.
Visitation in a rehabilitation prison system would be beneficial if the family was supportive I imagine.
[/QUOTE]
The family would also need to be told not to tell the prisoner what they did was right, or that they understand it. It could be a possible way of rehabilitating them.
[QUOTE]:respek: my good sir.[/QUOTE]
:respek:
[QUOTE=Zestence;24427840]I'm not a teen and I did read the read, it's basically all life is worth living etc. the same stuff that gets repeated on every single thread like this to no end. "Killing killers is wrong", yeah I got that 10 threads ago. It's not "blood lust", I don't feel any enjoyment for death nor do I want to see anyone die, death IS a bad thing, but why should society pay for some mentally fucked up person for possibly decades (and I am talking about those who are actually diagnosed with something incurable).
There will always be murderers, saving their lives is not going to solve anything and neither is killing them. There will never be a perfect world of happiness and in the end we just need to make sure the society remains safe for the law abiding, not necessarily fair.[/QUOTE]
Everytime you said Law Abiding, I couldn't help but think of this movie.
[img]http://www.filmofilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/law_abiding_citizen_poster-405x600.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=teeheeV2;24427975]The family would also need to be told not to tell the prisoner what they did was right, or that they understand it. It could be a possible way of rehabilitating them.
:respek:[/QUOTE]
That's true. That's where the supportive family part would come in.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24427923]1. No. Fallacy. People do not think to stop themselves committing a crime simply because they could die, not to mention, it's an impossible statistic to ever get a hold of therefore it holds no bearing.
2. Not really. It's far more expensive to prove someones guilt/innocence than to just incarcerate them. Want to cut down on tax payer costs? let out people who are in jail for possession of marijuana. Half the prison costs come from them.[/QUOTE]
Please, don't start a thing about weed by quoting that part. It is unrelated.
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