Israeli Troops Invade Qalandiya Refugee Camp and Kill Two civilians
215 replies, posted
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31677598]rocks are a fucking form of execution in the middle east and asia[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and you know what they do to the person being executed? They hold them in one place, these soldiers are not.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31677598]rocks are a fucking form of execution in the middle east and asia[/QUOTE]
In a few places, and when they do, they put them in one place and bombard the shit out of them.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31677600]Yeah, man, fuck retreating or using any less lethal force than a fucking gun to stop people from throwing rocks at you. The bare minimum would be a fucking warning shot in the air, at the very least.[/QUOTE]
how do you know they didnt fire warning shots? the articles dont specify.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31677610]Yeah, and you know what they do to the person being executed? They hold them in one place, these soldiers are not.[/QUOTE]
one rock can incapacitate a person.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31677642]how do you know they didnt fire warning shots? the articles dont specify.[/quote]
Why would I assume they fired warning shots if it doesn't specify.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31677642]one rock can incapacitate a person.[/QUOTE]
Are you fucking kidding me?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31677598]rocks are a fucking form of execution in the middle east and asia[/QUOTE]
This is like when people were trying to justify the use of lethal force on the syrian border by trying to paint a picture of thousands of palestinians zerg rushing the IDF with rocks until the video was released and it showed a bunch of palestinians cowering in a ditch while the IDF fired at them.
YEAH it is a form of execution, when like 20 people are surrounding a person throwing multiple rocks until they stop moving.
A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31677671]Why would I assume they fired warning shots if it doesn't specify.[/quote]
why would you assume they didnt?
[quote]Are you fucking kidding me?[/QUOTE]
no. one rock can incapacitate a person
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31677584]IT WAS ROCKS. [B]ROCKS.[/B][/QUOTE]
It was obviously enough that people were getting INJURED, to injure someone, you need to be either throwing rather large rocks or throwing a fucking torrent of them.
I also like how you keep saying they should have ran off. Do you have any idea how military operations work? The general idea is that you DONT turn tail and run when a bunch of people start throwing rocks, hell, the idea is that you dont turn tail and run if they start SHOOTING at you.
I know I know, they shouldnt have been there in the first place. THAT is the correct statement here, the soldiers were just doing what they were ordered to do.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;31677686]It was obviously enough that people were getting INJURED, to injure someone, you need to be either throwing rather large rocks or throwing a fucking torrent of them.
I also like how you keep saying they should have ran off. Do you have any idea how military operations work? The general idea is that you DONT turn tail and run when a bunch of people start throwing rocks, hell, the idea is that you dont turn tail and run if they start SHOOTING at you.
I know I know, they shouldnt have been there in the first place. THAT is the correct statement here, the soldiers were just doing what they were ordered to do.[/QUOTE]
Personally I blame the officers for sending soldiers to this refugee camp to forcefully search houses and tents, and I blame the soldiers for shooting the people at the camp.
[editline]11th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31677682]no. one rock can incapacitate a person[/QUOTE]
So now soldiers are so inept they can't use anything they have to defend themselves from rocks? Not move out of the way or block it with something?
Im pretty sure killing refugees is a war crime.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31677742]Personally I blame the officers for sending soldiers to this refugee camp to forcefully search houses and tents, and I blame the soldiers for shooting the people at the camp.[/QUOTE]
i blame the uk police officers for injuring those poor poor protesters the last couple of days
[editline]11th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=PunchedInFac;31677767]Im pretty sure killing refugees is a war crime.[/QUOTE]
not if your defending yourself. if they are attacking you they arent refugees, they are combatants
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31677682]
no. one rock can incapacitate a person[/QUOTE]
When struck square against the side or back of the head. Im pretty sure soldiers wear helmets.
[QUOTE=PunchedInFac;31677782]When struck square against the side or back of the head. Im pretty sure soldiers wear helmets.[/QUOTE]
or in the chest or sternum. or in certain parts of the back. or in the groin.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31677742]Personally I blame the officers for sending soldiers to this refugee camp to forcefully search houses and tents, and I blame the soldiers for shooting the people at the camp.
[/quote]
What should they have done?
[quote]
So now soldiers are so inept they can't use anything they have to defend themselves from rocks? Not move out of the way or block it with something?[/QUOTE]
Well, seeing as they were injured by said rocks, the circumstances obviously must not have allowed them to protect themselves adequately from them. If there were able to protect themselves from the rocks I'm gonna assume they probably would have.
Since, you know, getting hit with rocks kinda sucks.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31677769]i blame the uk police officers for injuring those poor poor protesters the last couple of days[/QUOTE]
I would blame the officers for using excessive force if they were [B]gunning down rioters.[/B]
[editline]11th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;31677844]Well, seeing as they were injured by said rocks, the circumstances obviously must not have allowed them to protect themselves adequately from them. If there were able to protect themselves from the rocks I'm gonna assume they probably would have.[/QUOTE]
Why do you give these IDF soldiers so much benefit of the doubt?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31677769]i blame the uk police officers for injuring those poor poor protesters the last couple of days
[editline]11th August 2011[/editline]
not if your defending yourself. if they are attacking you they arent refugees, they are combatants[/QUOTE]
officer and police officer are two completely different things.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31677854]
Why do you give these IDF soldiers so much benefit of the doubt?[/QUOTE]
So what, you think they purposely DIDNT protect themselves or something? Why would they not have taken all measures possible to stop rocks from hitting them?
Again I ask:
[quote]
What should they have done?
[/quote]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;31677941]So what, you think they purposely DIDNT protect themselves or something? Why would they not have taken all measures possible to stop rocks from hitting them?
Again I ask:[/QUOTE]
Fired warning shots, Fired at the legs, etc, its been said before.
At any case this happens too often for me to have any respect for any of the actions of the IDF.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31677854]
Why do you give these IDF soldiers so much benefit of the doubt?[/QUOTE]
because they are a bunch of conscripts. they arent war criminals they are average israeli joes who are required by law to join the military
[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;31677980]Fired warning shots, Fired at the legs, etc, its been said before.
[/QUOTE]
I seriously doubt they were shooting to kill if they only killed two of them. For all we know they WERE aiming for the legs and the killshots were accidental, who knows.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31677986]because they are a bunch of conscripts. they arent war criminals they are average israeli joes who are required by law to join the military[/QUOTE]
But obviously there are people in the military who wanted to join up, they aren't all simply there against their will.
[editline]11th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;31678056]I seriously doubt they were shooting to kill if they only killed two of them. For all we know they WERE aiming for the legs and the killshots were accidental, who knows.[/QUOTE]
Aim at the legs, and yet the killshot was in the head? Yeah, I don't think so.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31677854]
Why do you give these IDF soldiers so much benefit of the doubt?[/QUOTE]
Because soldiers tend to be normal people (especially in a country in which EVERYONE has to serve) who aren't the bloodthirsty maniacs as lots of people here make them out to be.
[editline]11th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31678059]
Aim at the legs, and yet the killshot was in the head? Yeah, I don't think so.[/QUOTE]
Do you know how infrequently deliberate headshots happen? Even when you are aiming for it, hitting a moving head requires a considerable amount of luck.
And again, you are implying that the person was standing up, drawing conclusions, etc.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;31678083]Because soldiers tend to be normal people (especially in a country in which EVERYONE has to serve) who aren't the bloodthirsty maniacs as lots of people here make them out to be.[/QUOTE]
I'm not accusing them of being maniacs, I'm accusing them of being reckless and making a bad decision.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31678059]But obviously there are people in the military who wanted to join up, they aren't all simply there against their will.[/QUOTE]
is everyone who wants to join the military a bloodthirsty murderer? i used to want to be in the military for college and benefits, iv met people who wanted to join the military to serve their country. im sure israel is much the same. they dont want to kill people, they just want to help their country.
and either way it doesnt matter if they wanted to or not because they are forced to do it regardless. again, most of these people are just average israeli guys and girls who are doing their required duty.
My cousin was in the Israeli army but he ran away because he didn't like it. Now he's banned from Israel. People who live there can't disobey orders or they're banished. Luckily my cousin lived in England so it wasn't that bad for him. He did leave his boots behind though.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31678139]I'm not accusing them of being maniacs, I'm accusing them of being reckless and making a bad decision.[/QUOTE]
Line troops dont make decisions, officers and commanders do. Line troops ACT on those decisions.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31678168]is everyone who wants to join the military a bloodthirsty murderer? i used to want to be in the military for college and benefits, iv met people who wanted to join the military to serve their country. im sure israel is much the same. they dont want to kill people, they just want to help their country.
and either way it doesnt matter if they wanted to or not because they are forced to do it regardless. again, most of these people are just average israeli guys and girls who are doing their required duty.[/QUOTE]
Well, can we at least both agree it was a bad idea for the IDF officers to send soldiers into a refugee camp to search houses?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31678230]Well, can we at least both agree it was a bad idea for the IDF officers to send soldiers into a refugee camp to search houses?[/QUOTE]
What if they didn't go in and someone in the houses was planning a terrorist attack?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31678230]Well, can we at least both agree it was a bad idea for the IDF officers to send soldiers into a refugee camp to search houses?[/QUOTE]
YES! it was reckless and endangered both the palestinians and the soldiers that were sent in.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31678230]Well, can we at least both agree it was a bad idea for the IDF officers to send soldiers into a refugee camp to search houses?[/QUOTE]
110% agree
The operation was stupid as fuck, the established rules of engagement were stupid as fuck.
The soldiers acted on poor decision making, and shit went wrong.
[QUOTE=jaykray;31678253]What if they didn't go in and someone in the houses was planning a terrorist attack?[/QUOTE]
the military shouldnt be involved in that shit. thats a job for law enforcement agencies trained to properly investigate and do legal humane searches.
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