I think I prefer a religion that promises a reward for good, yeah.
It's better than mainstream belief among many Protestants, that anyone can go to heaven regardless of their actions, if they believe in Christ. The problem with that notion is that it doesn't drive people to do good, it just circumvents the old laws with a loophole. That kind of belief is what breeds a holier-than-thou attitude among some religious people.
The issue comes when trying to define exactly what is 'good' and 'evil', and to which degree these things are considered one or the other. I don't think adultery deserves the same punishment as mass murder, but it's something.
I think Christianity would be a lot better off if it treated itself as a living philosophy, rather than a fixed dogma. At least then, it'd be able to change. The rationalization of this is that the philosophy of a deity's existence is seen through the purview of man, and thus filtered their biases, imposed by personal belief and the culture of the society that they're living in.
I disagree with theistic belief on a variety of levels, but I'm don't have the right to say that someone shouldn't believe something if nobody is hurt by said belief.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;40745189]
His voice isn't homophobic, stop making up hateful nonsense. He disagrees on gay marriage and adoption, which is something a lot of people do. Are they all the pinnacle of homophobia and evil ? No they aren't. Stop calling everyone who isn't spot on with your standards of beliefs a homophobe/bigot/whatever.[/QUOTE]
ok I'll stop calling him a homophobe when he stops being homophobic
[editline]1[/editline]
"he disagrees on gay marriage, which is something a lot of people do"
"he agrees on slavery, which is something a lot of people do"
[editline]22nd May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;40745189]
You seem the kind of guy who really likes rainbows[/quote]
your homophobia is showing
People need to stop following the letter and start following the spirit of Christianity, like Popey here is. He's just made an unprecedented move from catholicism, the most orthodox branch of Christianity. Stop trying to disprove him with a book you don't believe yourself and start being more esoteric in your approach to spirituality.
[QUOTE=Dori;40745224]ok I'll stop calling him a homophobe when he stops being homophobic[/QUOTE]
Ok I'm done talking to a knucklehead like you I'm going to talk with this guy right over here instead
[QUOTE=joes33431;40745221]I think I prefer a religion that promises a reward for good, yeah.
It's better than mainstream belief among many Protestants, that anyone can go to heaven regardless of their actions, if they believe in Christ. The problem with that notion is that it doesn't drive people to do good, it just circumvents the old laws with a loophole. That kind of attitude is what breeds a holier-than-thou attitude among some religious people.
The issue comes when trying to define exactly what is 'good' and 'evil', and to which degree these things are considered one or the other. I don't think adultery deserves the same punishment as mass murder, but it's something.
I think Christianity would be a lot better off if it treated itself as a living philosophy, rather than a fixed dogma. At least then, it'd be able to change. The rationalization of this is that the philosophy of a deity's existence is seen through the purview of man, and thus filtered their biases, imposed by personal belief and the culture of the society that they're living in.
I disagree with theistic belief on a variety of levels, but I'm don't have the right to say that someone shouldn't believe something if nobody is hurt by said belief.[/QUOTE]
This is very likely where religion in general is going to head throughout the upcoming century. I'm even fairly certain that as we go religions based around a binary thought of the life and the divine will disappear because it just will just be harder and harder to fit this kind of belief into our general base of knowledge. Religion will probably evolve into the general idea of a "greater presence" that surrounds all things, rather than a superior boss that just watches and decides of stuff, and whose house you get to visit upon death.
[QUOTE=Dori;40745224]your homophobia is showing[/QUOTE]
You know jack shit about me
[editline]22nd May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Retardation;40745290]what
this is really dumb
just because "a lot of people also think so" doesn't mean they aren't homophobes and bigots. there are varying degrees of homophobia and bigotry, but that doesn't mean they aren't homophobes and bigots.
this is infinitely stupid logic you're using there[/QUOTE]
My point is this guy isn't evil and homophobic because he disagrees on one social topic a lot of facepunch users (including me) agree on. The homophobic and evil people are the ones who beat up gay couples on the street for being gay. If we actually lowered our standards to the point where everyone not agreeing with gay marriage was a homophobe, then pretty much all of the world would be homophobe, including a portion of homosexuals.
[QUOTE=Retardation;40745290]what
this is really dumb
just because "a lot of people also think so" doesn't mean they aren't homophobes and bigots. there are varying degrees of homophobia and bigotry, but that doesn't mean they aren't homophobes and bigots.
this is infinitely stupid logic you're using there[/QUOTE]
Disagreeing on gay marriage or adoption doesn't necessarily make you homophobic or a bigot.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;40745293]
My point is this guy isn't evil and homophobic because he disagrees on one social topic a lot of facepunch users (including me) agree on. The homophobic and evil people are the ones who beat up gay couples on the street for being gay.[/QUOTE]
this is really simplistic and childish way of thought
homophobia is homophobia. you don't have to hunt homosexuals to be homophobic. the pope is implicitly homophobic because he is against homosexual rights
[QUOTE=Retardation;40745328]also which gays oppose gay marriage
i really want to meet these gay friends of yours, because that sounds infinitely silly to me.
are you sure you're not confusing gays rejecting gay marriage with gays rejecting marriage in general?[/QUOTE]
No I mean gays rejecting gay marriage. The one guy I know who didn't want gay marriage legal had a fair point, because he thought they had a good alternative (civil union) and actually legalizing gay marriage wouldn't be very useful and would just infuriate a lot of people, while not being as beneficial for the LGBT community. It would just stir up a lot of trouble with not much of a reward. Makes sense to me, considering how much trouble gay marriage did end up causing, though in my opinion it was pretty much just a matter of time until such a law was passed, and I'm happy it's been done in my lifetime so I may actually be able to use it at some point.
[editline]23rd May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dori;40745355]this is really simplistic and childish way of thought
homophobia is homophobia. you don't have to hunt homosexuals to be homophobic. the pope is implicitly homophobic because he is against homosexual rights[/QUOTE]
Homophobia is being afraid of gay people. The pope is against homosexual marriage because civil unions exist and marriage is culturally a man/woman thing. He's not trying to put himself and straight people in a state of superiority towards gays, which is what homophobes do.
Someone doesn't agree with you on gay marriage, deal with it. Stop calling everyone big words because you're disagreeing, that's just childish and idiotic.
[editline]23rd May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;40745338]Disagreeing on gay marriage or adoption doesn't necessarily make you homophobic or a bigot.[/QUOTE]
Well according to some people of facepunch it does. Because being Manichean is the way to go.
This changes nothing, religion is stupid.
Morality doesn't come from god.
Homosexuality is natural and is not a matter of choice.
Religion is both secondary and primary in every fucking cause, it's both the excuse and the cause to fucking everything.
He's a little bit less extreme?, so what.
I don't see why everyone is so happy over this.
Doesn't this just all seem like this sleek marketing campaign?
Just me?, ok.
-__-
[QUOTE=Doodle313;40745443]This changes nothing, religion is stupid.
Morality doesn't come from god.
Homosexuality is natural and is not a matter of choice.
Religion is both secondary and primary in every fucking cause, it's both the excuse and the cause to fucking everything.
He's a little bit less extreme?, so what.
I don't see why everyone is so happy over this.
Doesn't this just all seem like this sleek marketing campaign?
Just me?, ok.
-__-[/QUOTE]
Wow look how edgy you are, don't cut yourself with all that edge now son
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;40745372]
Homophobia is being afraid of gay people.[/QUOTE]
no it's not because english is not greek and language is not prescriptive
"homophobe" has been used to refer to people who are bigoted toward homosexuals. the pope is bigoted toward homosexuals because he doesn't afford to them basic human rights
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;40745372]No I mean gays rejecting gay marriage. The one guy I know who didn't want gay marriage legal had a fair point, because he thought they had a good alternative (civil union) and actually legalizing gay marriage wouldn't be very useful and would just infuriate a lot of people, while not being as beneficial for the LGBT community. It would just stir up a lot of trouble with not much of a reward. Makes sense to me, considering how much trouble gay marriage did end up causing, though in my opinion it was pretty much just a matter of time until such a law was passed, and I'm happy it's been done in my lifetime so I may actually be able to use it at some point.
[editline]23rd May 2013[/editline]
Homophobia is being afraid of gay people. The pope is against homosexual marriage because civil unions exist and marriage is culturally a man/woman thing. He's not trying to put himself and straight people in a state of superiority towards gays, which is what homophobes do.
Someone doesn't agree with you on gay marriage, deal with it. Stop calling everyone big words because you're disagreeing, that's just childish and idiotic.
[editline]23rd May 2013[/editline]
Well according to some people of facepunch it does. Because being Manichean is the way to go.[/QUOTE]
Homosexual couples have been proven scientifically to have major benefits over regular parents.
If you don't agree with this, it doesn't make you homophopic, it makes you a ignorant retard.
The reason why some people apply homophobia with this, is because stupid ignorance usually comes in the same package with homophobia.
[QUOTE=Dori;40745477]no it's not because english is not greek and language is not prescriptive
"homophobe" has been used to refer to people who are bigoted toward homosexuals. the pope is bigoted toward homosexuals because he doesn't afford to them basic human rights[/QUOTE]
The pope said he supports civil unions. Specifically "gay rights".
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;40745372]
Homophobia is being afraid of gay people.[/QUOTE]
It actually just means (basically) not liking homosexuals in this case. If it actually meant what the parts of the word mean, it would be an irrational fear of things that are the same (which is technically also a valid definition, just not this one).
[QUOTE=Dori;40745477]no it's not because english is not greek and language is not prescriptive
"homophobe" has been used to refer to people who are bigoted toward homosexuals. the pope is bigoted toward homosexuals because he doesn't afford to them basic human rights[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/-phobe[/url]
whoops i guess you were wrong.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;40745493]The pope said he supports civil unions. Specifically "gay rights".[/QUOTE]
separate but equal marriage is homophobic
[QUOTE=Dori;40745477]no it's not because english is not greek and language is not prescriptive
"homophobe" has been used to refer to people who are bigoted toward homosexuals. the pope is bigoted toward homosexuals because he doesn't afford to them basic human rights[/QUOTE]
Marriage is not a basic human right. It's a very specific ceremony that achieves the same purpose as other events that are already accessible or that could be accessible to gay couples much more easily than marriage. As BusterBluth said, even the pope is okay with civil unions.
And stop using a massive buzzword such as bigot holy shit, this has to be the most used word on threads like this because it's pretty much the one thing people like you to escape a lack of proper arguments.
And stop saying that words don't have proper definitions anymore so you can just fuck around with what they mean because it's not true.
[QUOTE=Furioso;40744490]Pope Francis is definitely one of the most progressive popes in the history of the Catholic Church. Hopefully the trend continues. What the pope has to say still holds a lot of weight with a huge number of people.[/QUOTE]
He's (was) a Jesuit....progressive is not the word I would use....
[QUOTE]Homosexual couples have been proven scientifically to have major benefits over regular parents.
If you don't agree with this, it doesn't make you homophopic, it makes you a ignorant retard.[/QUOTE]
Correlation != Cause.
experiment papers, please?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;40745531]Marriage is not a basic human right. [/QUOTE]
in this world, yes it is. homosexual couples have much fewer rights than heterosexual couples
[QUOTE=Dori;40745517]separate but equal marriage is homophobic[/QUOTE]
I fail to see why. If practiced how it should be it would be identical to marriage with the name being the only difference.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;40745536]He's (was) a Jesuit....progressive is not the word I would use....[/QUOTE]
No, he still is a Jesuit (it's an order of Catholicism, why would he give up his belief?), and he's rather progressive, especially compared to the last pope.
[QUOTE=Dori;40745555]in this world, yes it is. homosexual couples have much fewer rights than heterosexual couples[/QUOTE]
So its a basic human right that single people are not allowed to have?
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;40745567]I fail to see why. If practiced how it should be it would be identical to marriage with the name being the only difference.[/QUOTE]
black fountains were identical to white fountains, they were just to the side
[editline]22nd May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;40745584]So its a basic human right that single people are not allowed to have?[/QUOTE]
single people aren't forbidden from marriage and marriage benefits for being single
[QUOTE=Dori;40745555]in this world, yes it is. homosexual couples have much fewer rights than heterosexual couples[/QUOTE]
It's a social right that can be fulfilled with other things of equal importance such as civil union. Non-religious marriage is nothing more than a civil union with an actual ceremony slapped over it. It sure is a fancy thing to have it available to homosexual couples as well but as long as civil unions available for heterosexual and homosexual couples (btw, more and more couples ,even straight, still opt for civil unions because they are much, much cheaper and are just as good as marriage), it's pretty much not necessary. Stop acting like being able to marry is the most important thing in the world right now, because it's not, even with LGBT rights.
[QUOTE=Dori;40745589]black fountains were identical to white fountains, they were just to the side[/QUOTE]
There is a difference in there being a physical difference and a difference in name only.
[QUOTE=Dori;40745589]black fountains were identical to white fountains, they were just to the side[/QUOTE]
Yeah except civil unions are available to everyone.
Also civil unions compared to marriage only lack an actual ceremony, big deal.
[QUOTE=Dori;40745589]
single people aren't forbidden from marriage and marriage benefits for being single[/QUOTE]
They are, by definition they are not married, therefore not receiving marriage benefits. A basic human right is something that is afforded to you just by being human, not by some sort of social status.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;40745536]He's (was) a Jesuit....progressive is not the word I would use....
Correlation != Cause.
experiment papers, please?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.adoptioninstitute.org/publications/2011_10_Expanding_Resources_BestPractices.pdf\[/url]
[url]http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/03/21/174925919/pediatricians-voice-support-for-same-sex-marriage-and-adoption[/url]
[url]http://www.livescience.com/6073-children-raised-lesbians-fine-studies-show.html[/url]
[url]http://www.livescience.com/17913-advantages-gay-parents.html[/url]
[url]http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1037/0002-9432.77.4.550/abstract[/url]
[url]http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2010/06/07/peds.2009-3153.full.pdf+html[/url]
[url]http://www.squareonemd.com/pdf/Does%20the%20Gender%20of%20Parents%20Matter%202010.pdf[/url]
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;40745616]They are, by definition they are not married, therefore not receiving marriage benefits.[/QUOTE]
What are you singlephobic
You say single people are inferior therefore you must be a bigot
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;40745616]They are, by definition they are not married, therefore not receiving marriage benefits.[/QUOTE]
what do you not get
single people are not forbidden from marriage for being single they just aren't married. comparing single people to homosexual people makes literally no sense
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