Virtually no one thinks Trump has discouraged white supremacists - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Paramud;52608619]Way to just completely disregard what my post was about to go on a tangent.[/QUOTE] My bad I did go off on a little tangent there, if shouting phrases and waving a flag makes you a Nazi then I guess they are, but even if we acknowledge that what does it change, we still have the more important issue of how to deal with them, if censorship actually worked and didn't risk infringing on the rights of other people I'd be all for it, but that isn't the case and could lead us down a dangerous road.

[QUOTE=Chryseus;52608658]My bad I did go off on a little tangent there, if shouting phrases and waving a flag makes you a Nazi then I guess they are, but even if we acknowledge that what does it change, we still have the more important issue of how to deal with them, if censorship actually worked and didn't risk infringing on the rights of other people I'd be all for it, but that isn't the case and could lead us down a dangerous road.[/QUOTE] Okay. 1) Stop saying these people aren't Nazis. They've declared it themselves. Stop saying they aren't, when they're the group calling themselves that. It's stupid to speak for the Nazis how you are. 2) Censorship, or appeasement. Appease them, or censor them. Figure it out because there isn't a magical third option. Give them what they want. Or tell them to fuck off. Pick.

Well let's back up a bit here anyway, the problem was that Trump refuses to condemn nazism and white supremacy. It's a huge fucking step to call simply doing that censorship so let's not kid ourselves by saying that we're dealing with a free speech issue here.

[QUOTE=Chryseus;52608538]Don't confuse me for a Nazi apologists, I may not be the most tolerant person around but there is no way I could ever be described as a Nazi, I'm just saying trying to censor them is a bad idea that will only come back to bite everyone on the ass, I don't want to see another news story of some person being hurt or killed over this but the way things are being pushed and the labelling of anyone even slightly racist as a Nazi is not going to help matters. I wish there was a way to solve this quickly and easily but there isn't, at least none that I can see, at the end of the day grabbing your pitchfork and going after them will not help.[/quote] I'm not calling you a Nazi, I'm calling you a Nazi apologist, because that's exactly what you're doing in arguing so vehemently that Nazis aren't actually all that bad. Nazis are terrorists. We are dealing with violent extremist factions. That [I]cannot[/I] be tolerated, and they [I]do not[/I] have the right to preach genocide, violence, and other forms of harm. That is not protected by our first amendment rights, nor should it be, because it endangers innocent people. Words inspire action, as so clearly seen in Charlottesville. Nazi terrorists must be fought against. [quote]You're quite right there isn't really such a thing as a moderate Nazi, but do you really think these idiots even qualify as Nazis, I mean you only need to take one look at them to see how stupid they are, responding to them is the worst thing you can possibly do, don't get me wrong something needs to be done but there is a right and wrong way to do things.[/QUOTE] Why the hell wouldn't they be? Being stupid doesn't make them not dangerous. They subscribe to the same ideology as Nazis. They support horrific violence against minorities. They support subjugation of "lesser races." They are Nazis in every sense of the ideology. Being idiot Americans instead of clean cut Germans doesn't make them any less dangerous to people. It doesn't make the terrorist attacks committed in support of their violent rhetoric any less deadly. Quit downplaying this shit. They are evil.

[QUOTE=Splarg!;52608674]Well let's back up a bit here anyway, the problem was that Trump refuses to condemn nazism and white supremacy. It's a huge fucking step to call simply doing that censorship so let's not kid ourselves by saying that we're dealing with a free speech issue here.[/QUOTE] You're right Trump should have specifically condemned them, I was more referring to way that everyone seems to be rushing to censor them without realising the dangerous precedent it sets and the risk of forcing them underground where they become even more difficult to monitor. [QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52608680]IWhy the hell wouldn't they be? Being stupid doesn't make them not dangerous. They subscribe to the same ideology as Nazis. They support horrific violence against minorities. They support subjugation of "lesser races." They are Nazis in every sense of the ideology. Being idiot Americans instead of clean cut Germans doesn't make them any less dangerous to people. It doesn't make the terrorist attacks committed in support of their violent rhetoric any less deadly. Quit downplaying this shit. They are evil.[/QUOTE] I suppose you are correct, I just can't really take them seriously, but yeah they are a danger but as I've said before I don't think how we're responding to them is going to help the situation, giving in to their demands is clearly out of the question and directly trying to silence them may backfire, honestly I don't know what should be done but it seems we're going down a path where using violence to push your agenda is becoming increasingly common.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52608671]Okay. 1) Stop saying these people aren't Nazis. They've declared it themselves. Stop saying they aren't, when they're the group calling themselves that. It's stupid to speak for the Nazis how you are. 2) Censorship, or appeasement. Appease them, or censor them. Figure it out because there isn't a magical third option. Give them what they want. Or tell them to fuck off. Pick.[/QUOTE] I often lurk, and every time I see you post its always the angriest post in the thread. Other people come close, but you are so unbelievably angry all the time that its extremely funny to every passive observer. Its hard to reach the level of insanity that BDA has reached, but damn you come pretty close. You are advocating for silencing a belief you disagree with because you believe there is some sort of sinister plot to take over the country from within. Nazis thought that too, you know? I'm sure if you had it your way, trump and trumps supporters would be executed or "reeducated." I am EXTREMELY grateful you don't live in my country, I would hate to have my life guided by the whims of people like you. Just wanted to say that man, you're a disappointment to a free society.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;52607080]Does this take into consideration the people that dance around the subject of white supremacists and just say "but what about the left?"[/QUOTE] Probably yes. I'm the kind of guy who would go "let's not forget about the left" where appropriate, but come on it's pretty obvious that if he criticized both sides then objectively he hasn't discouraged shit.

[QUOTE=KingAaron;52609227]I often lurk, and every time I see you post its always the angriest post in the thread. Other people come close, but you are so unbelievably angry all the time that its extremely funny to every passive observer. Its hard to reach the level of insanity that BDA has reached, but damn you come pretty close. You are advocating for silencing a belief you disagree with because you believe there is some sort of sinister plot to take over the country from within. Nazis thought that too, you know? I'm sure if you had it your way, trump and trumps supporters would be executed or "reeducated." I am EXTREMELY grateful you don't live in my country, I would hate to have my life guided by the whims of people like you. Just wanted to say that man, you're a disappointment to a free society.[/QUOTE] Who has said anything at all about executing Trump supporters? Nobody here is endorsing that shit, and if they were they would be immediately banned and (depending on the nature of their statements) would have their information forwarded to law enforcement. It would not be the first time, I'm sorry to say, that I have had to make contact with the FBI and/or more local law enforcement groups based on comments made here. Basically, what you're saying has no basis in reality. You're propping up a huge strawman to lay your jabs into. HumanAbyss is definitely one of the most "passionate" posters we have here (and he's got the ban history to prove it), but he has never once in his entire time here condoned any of the shit you're accusing him of. As for "silencing beliefs," the only things we're advocating silencing are terrorist groups calling for the eradication of minorities and political opposition... Basically, exactly what you have just accused Human Abyss of doing. There is, of course, every legal, ethical, and logical precedent for doing so, as their rhetoric threatens innocent lives. If you can't join in the discussion without making such ridiculous and dishonest leaps in logic, then maybe you should go back to lurking.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52608598]If your thought process on this is 'the people who call [B]Themselves[/B] Nazis aren't really Nazis" then please, stop talking.[/QUOTE] I would like to take an opportunity to point out that not all of them are calling themselves nazis, and that a huge number of people aren't aware that a right wing movement is spreading itself across the US and Europe, called [URL="https://www.generation-identitaire.com/generation-identity/"]Generation Identity in Europe[/URL] and [URL="https://www.identityevropa.com/"]Identity Evropa in the US[/URL] (yeah funny how that turned out). If you ever wanted to know what the real equivalent of the Nazi ideology is, you're kidding yourself if you think they'd all openly just identify as Nazis. The white identitarian movement is the new brand of this type of ideology, and they are chugging along mostly unnoticed thanks to Neo Nazis taking the hit instead of them.

[QUOTE=KingAaron;52609227]I often lurk, and every time I see you post its always the angriest post in the thread. Other people come close, but you are so unbelievably angry all the time that its extremely funny to every passive observer. Its hard to reach the level of insanity that BDA has reached, but damn you come pretty close. You are advocating for silencing a belief you disagree with because you believe there is some sort of sinister plot to take over the country from within. Nazis thought that too, you know? I'm sure if you had it your way, trump and trumps supporters would be executed or "reeducated." I am EXTREMELY grateful you don't live in my country, I would hate to have my life guided by the whims of people like you. Just wanted to say that man, you're a disappointment to a free society.[/QUOTE] This post that you're talking about is probably one of the least angry ones in the thread maybe don't waste my time and flame me on my own visitors messages

[QUOTE=KingAaron;52609227]I often lurk, and every time I see you post its always the angriest post in the thread. Other people come close, but you are so unbelievably angry all the time that its extremely funny to every passive observer. Its hard to reach the level of insanity that BDA has reached, but damn you come pretty close. You are advocating for silencing a belief you disagree with because you believe there is some sort of sinister plot to take over the country from within. Nazis thought that too, you know? I'm sure if you had it your way, trump and trumps supporters would be executed or "reeducated." I am EXTREMELY grateful you don't live in my country, I would hate to have my life guided by the whims of people like you. Just wanted to say that man, you're a disappointment to a free society.[/QUOTE] So you made an account just to make an ill informed post? Lurk more. BDA might get heated but he is at least passionate about his posts, concedes points when met with reason, and is generally a pretty good mod.

[QUOTE=KingAaron;52609227]I often lurk, and every time I see you post its always the angriest post in the thread. Other people come close, but you are so unbelievably angry all the time that its extremely funny to every passive observer. Its hard to reach the level of insanity that BDA has reached, but damn you come pretty close. You are advocating for silencing a belief you disagree with because you believe there is some sort of sinister plot to take over the country from within. Nazis thought that too, you know? I'm sure if you had it your way, trump and trumps supporters would be executed or "reeducated." I am EXTREMELY grateful you don't live in my country, I would hate to have my life guided by the whims of people like you. Just wanted to say that man, you're a disappointment to a free society.[/QUOTE] Nice post, invoking "just like the Nazis" when talking about suppressing hate speech, comparing censorship to summary executions. If HA is the angriest person in the thread, you're the most hyperbolic and delusional one.