Editorial: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - Polidicks

Can't wait.

[QUOTE=DarkSpider;26565068]That was before corporations bought the elections.[/QUOTE] Can't agree more. Corporatocracy, anyone? Regardless, Presidents don't make or break the country. It's a very complicated system, which indeed has been broken by financial interests. But that certainly doesn't equal the fall of America. Broke my auto-merge for two words, thanks guy.

[QUOTE=Ultra Violence;26565078] Not really, there have been quite a few presidents that achieved their status coming from middle or lower class families. I'm fairly certain President Obama also came from a single-parent family with a small income, just as Jackson did.[/QUOTE] Obama came from an extremely influential family, he went to private schools as a kid and went on to graduate from harvard.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;26564801]The definition of a superpower does not include "interfere with the affairs of other nations", it only means you are very powerful.[/QUOTE] No, a superpower is a country that has enough political, cultural, economic, and military influence, to actually change other countries. At least I think that is what a superpower is.

The thing about presidents having "small town, low class" backgrounds is, that was when they were raised. The majority of presidents, like Obama for example, may of grew up in such a background, but [I]now[/I] when he was elected, he was part of the "upper class elite" as he made his way up to that position. Growing up lower class =/= Becoming president from lower class.

So what are we supposed to discuss in this thread? About how we think America is in a decline? They've been saying that for every decade since the 60's. America in the 50's was a beautiful place, the golden age. I'd have loved to have lived in a house with a white picket fence, with a local store down the street with bottles of coca cola for ten cents a pop. Every bit of american life has been vulgarized. The innocence of the 'frontier' is over, and it has been replaced with corporate slime, attaching itself to every orifice of the modern world.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26565109]Obama came from an extremely influential family, he went to private schools as a kid and went on to graduate from harvard.[/QUOTE] His parents certainly weren't extremely influential. He attended public schools until he was ten, when his grandparents payed his way through private schooling in Hawaii. He also didn't attend Harvard immediately, and worked his way through his tuition. But as I said, it's not the President that controls the fate of America; he simply does not have enough power to do so.

[QUOTE=MrAfroShark70;26565111]No, a superpower is a country that has enough political, cultural, economic, and military influence, to actually change other countries. At least I think that is what a superpower is.[/QUOTE] I understand with what you mean. All these definitions are very fluid as well as overlap in parts, so it's easy to mix meanings and ideas of one with the other. Each person probably has their own meanings toward "empire", "imperialism", "superpower", etc. as well as different levels as to how each are rated. For example, the Roman Empire can be called a "Superpower" in its heyday, but compared to America's version of a "superpower", the Romans were nothing more than a regional power. It's all about how you view things.

[QUOTE=Ultra Violence;26565178]His parents certainly weren't extremely influential. He attended public schools until he was ten, when his grandparents payed his way through private schooling in Hawaii. He also didn't attend Harvard immediately, and worked his way through his tuition. But as I said, it's not the President that controls the fate of America; he simply does not have enough power to do so.[/QUOTE] He isn't some supressed black youth from downtown LA. He still managed to get a post-grad, which is more than what most people get.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;26565123]The thing about presidents having "small town, low class" backgrounds is, that was when they were raised. The majority of presidents, like Obama for example, may of grew up in such a background, but [I]now[/I] when he was elected, he was part of the "upper class elite" as he made his way up to that position. Growing up lower class =/= Becoming president from lower class.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it does equal that. Even if you've moved to the upper class as an adult, doesn't mean you were given the privileges and opportunities that a child raised in an upper class family would have. Essentially what I'm saying is that having money now does not negate the fact that you grew up without it.

America is not an Empire. Empires control several countries, and continue to rapidly expand. It is wrong to call it an empire.

[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26565177]So what are we supposed to discuss in this thread? About how we think America is in a decline? They've been saying that for every decade since the 60's. America in the 50's was a beautiful place, the golden age. I'd have loved to have lived in a house with a white picket fence, with a local store down the street with bottles of coca cola for ten cents a pop. Every bit of american life has been vulgarized. The innocence of the 'frontier' is over, and it has been replaced with corporate slime, attaching itself to every orifice of the modern world.[/QUOTE] A very romanticized idea of the 1950s. It also had red scares, the bloody Korean War, heavily patriarchal and constant fear of Soviet invasion along with the rise of that "military-industrial complex" Eisenhower warned about.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26565215]He isn't some supressed black youth from downtown LA. He still managed to get a post-grad, which is more than what most people get.[/QUOTE] I never said he was... And yes, but he certainly isn't the first person that isn't from the upper class to obtain a post graduate education. And you're still ignoring that last part, I'm confused as to why you think this is important.

[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26565229]America is not an Empire. Empires control several countries, and continue to rapidly expand. It is wrong to call it an empire.[/QUOTE] What constitutes a country in an empire? Also, America has it's hand in almost every cookie jar across the planet, it'd be naive to say they aren't influential.

[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26565229]America is not an Empire. Empires control several countries, and continue to rapidly expand. It is wrong to call it an empire.[/QUOTE] Direct control and governance of another nation isn't the only way to "control" other nations. There is also indirect control, through cultural dominance and economic muscling.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;26565236]A very romanticized idea of the 1950s. It also had red scares, the bloody Korean War, heavily patriarchal and constant fear of Soviet invasion along with the rise of that "military-industrial complex" Eisenhower warned about.[/QUOTE] Ofcourse it's romanticized. But the only fear was the far off communists, who didn't manage to smash airplanes through buildings or blow people up. And besides, I'm talking through the eyes of a child. Just imagine it.

[QUOTE=Ultra Violence;26565246]I never said he was... And yes, but he certainly isn't the first person that isn't from the upper class to obtain a post graduate education. And you're still ignoring that last part, I'm confused as to why you think this is important.[/QUOTE] Only the rich and the educated go on to become president, which proves that there is a pre-defined power structure in America, which is a part of the definition of an empire.

[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26565261]Ofcourse it's romanticized. But the only fear was the far off communists, who didn't manage to smash airplanes through buildings or blow people up. And besides, I'm talking through the eyes of a child. Just imagine it.[/QUOTE] Don't forget the red scare... Yes, imagining it... It's so pretty :allears:

And besides, the korean war was hardly comparable to their recent bloodbath in the 40's. Surely you can understand how the 1950's could be seen as a golden age.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26565269]Only the rich and the educated go on to become president, which proves that there is a pre-defined power structure in America, which is a part of the definition of an empire.[/QUOTE] Just to add to this, Though those who grew up poor and low class can rise through the ranks of the rich and become president, this is and always has been the exception, not the rule.

[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26565302]And besides, the korean war was hardly comparable to their recent bloodbath in the 40's. Surely you can understand how the 1950's could be seen as a golden age.[/QUOTE] Especially considering the USA was pretty much the only economic super-power left unbombed. Europe was flattened, Russia was flattened, China was partially devistated, and the USA/Canada were completely untouched.

[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26565302]And besides, the korean war was hardly comparable to their recent bloodbath in the 40's. Surely you can understand how the 1950's could be seen as a golden age.[/QUOTE] Oh yes, I completely understand where you're coming from. Much like the 20s and 90s, the 50s is considered the "Pax Americana". I'm just saying there's always a black lining of that silver cloud.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26565269]Only the rich and the educated go on to become president, which proves that there is a pre-defined power structure in America, which is a part of the definition of an empire.[/QUOTE] Well I certainly wouldn't elect an uneducated president, regardless of what he promises. As for having to be rich, that's mostly the system's fault. It requires money to campaign to get enough signatures just to run for President. It's only after that point that corporations start to take an interest. By no means am I saying this is fair, though. And I'm 100% in agreement with America having a static class structure. It is an immobile hierarchy; the majority of children born in the lower class will stay there for the entirety of their lives. I can see an issue developing if the current rate of class stratification continues, but once again, not enough to bring about the fall of America.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26565329]Especially considering the USA was pretty much the only economic super-power left unbombed. Europe was flattened, Russia was flattened, China was partially devistated, and the USA/Canada were completely untouched.[/QUOTE] Western Russia was flattened. A majority of Russia was unharmed, especially east of the Urals. [editline]8th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Ultra Violence;26565337]Well I certainly wouldn't elect an uneducated president, regardless of what he promises. As for having to be rich, that's mostly the system's fault. It requires money to campaign to get enough signatures just to run for President. It's only after that point that corporations start to take an interest. By no means am I saying this is fair, though. And I'm 100% in agreement with America having a static class structure. It is an immobile hierarchy; the majority of children born in the lower class will stay there for the entirety of their lives. I can see an issue developing if the current rate of class stratification continues, but once again, not enough to bring about the fall of America.[/QUOTE] Agreed. The biggest and best difference between the "American Empire" and other "true" empires in social stratification is that in America, though it is not often, there [I]is[/I] a chance you can rise through the ranks, where as in "true" empires, this is extremely rare, if ever.

[QUOTE=Ultra Violence;26565337]Well I certainly wouldn't elect an uneducated president, regardless of what he promises. As for having to be rich, that's mostly the system's fault. It requires money to campaign to get enough signatures just to run for President. It's only after that point that corporations start to take an interest. By no means am I saying this is fair, though. And I'm 100% in agreement with America having a static class structure. It is an immobile hierarchy; the majority of children born in the lower class will stay there for the entirety of their lives. I can see an issue developing if the current rate of class stratification continues, but once again, not enough to bring about the fall of America.[/QUOTE] I mostly agree with you at this point but sometimes people are smart, but unable to get a post-grad due to monetary issues or family oblegations, which is the real shame.

No matter how many times you patriotic Americans call your European colony an empire or a super power it won't change the fact that it's just a successful colony that made loads of money, you haven't conquered and you haven't ruled, deal with it. P.s If you're American don't take offence to this, America is a very powerful nation and it invented the Atomic bomb so if it wanted it could have easily conquered and ruled as a true empire but at the same cost of all other empires, lives. Millions of innocent people died because of previous empires, America could have killed millions more, but it choose not to.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;26565356]Western Russia was flattened. A majority of Russia was unharmed, especially east of the Urals. [/QUOTE] Except the vast majority of Russians live in the west. It's easy to say unpopulated land is unflattened :v:

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26565397]Except the vast majority of Russians live in the west. It's easy to say unpopulated land is unflattened :v:[/QUOTE] This is true a true statement. [editline]8th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Canary;26565395]No matter how many times you patriotic Americans call your European colony an empire or a super power it won't change the fact that it's just a successful colony that made loads of money, you haven't conquered and you haven't ruled, deal with it.[/QUOTE] This is confusing a confusing statement.

[QUOTE=faze;26564844]Meh, I hope that'll be the extent of it. That needs to happen anyway. We have our noses in too much shit right now.[/QUOTE] America want's to be everywhere and influence everything, I don't approve of it and it makes the countries we build bases in resent our presence. Doesn't make us look too good.

[QUOTE=Canary;26565395]No matter how many times you patriotic Americans call your European colony an empire or a super power it won't change the fact that it's just a successful colony that made loads of money, you haven't conquered and you haven't ruled, deal with it.[/QUOTE] Read as: lolitrolu