Editorial: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire
145 replies, posted
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;26572628]For an Empire we sure do help a lot of other countries[/QUOTE]
Part of being an economic empire is being able to buy what others have to fight for.
We get a lot of things from a lot of places around the world. What's easier, sending troops or sending money?
That's a huge part of what is going on. Lots of countries do busines with the US, or are allies with the US, only because we have enormous economic power. We control the money, in other words.
When the day comes that someone else(China or whoever) has control over more money, the rest of the world is going to dump us and go to them. I know I would if I was running some country. If I'm a leader in the Middle East for example, the ONLY reason I'd partner with the US is because of their power to project their military and therefore protect me. The day the US can't project power like that is the day I start making deals with China.
The site that this article comes from has this on the side.
[img]http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/7582/donatev1.jpg[/img]
Sounds fair and balanced.
You guys are expanding superpower to mean empire.
to be honest, you have to wonder if it's even possible to have an empire nowadays.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;26573576]You guys are expanding superpower to mean empire.
to be honest, you have to wonder if it's even possible to have an empire nowadays.[/QUOTE]
It's not. Countries would shun you for trying to expand. Sure you could probably take one or two countries if your lucky (WW2-Poland&China) but when you try to hit a big country the rest of the world would just shit on your face.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;26573576]You guys are expanding superpower to mean empire.
to be honest, you have to wonder if it's even possible to have an empire nowadays.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan[/url]
:rolleye:
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;26573576]You guys are expanding superpower to mean empire.
to be honest, you have to wonder if it's even possible to have an empire nowadays.[/QUOTE]
Think about how we operate man...
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;26564770]For those who aren't bright enough to read the article, this isn't the Fall of America, it's the fall of their global foothold across the world. Right now the US has military bases in over 70 different countries to have a global influence, these will probably disappear and America will become isolated to the states.[/QUOTE]
Which sounds like a great thing to me, being in shitty countries like those in South America is pointless.
[QUOTE=faze;26574268]Think about how we operate man...[/QUOTE]
We are not an empire because we do not have a monarch.
Everybody compares America to Rome. But they compare the wrong thing. It's always "America is going to fall, just like Rome!" We should only be so lucky. Let's just fall like Rome did, after five hundred years of world domination.
The real question is how can America establish itself so it can endure the way Rome did? The only reason we care about the fall of Rome is because this Latin-speaking village in the heart of the Italian peninsula had forced it's culture and language on Gaul and Iberia and Dacia and Britannia and even after it fell the lands they conquered still clung to as much of that culture as they could. Why was Rome so successful?
Rome ruthlessly conquered dozens, hundreds of nations and tribes. Why, then when Rome fell did these former enemies cling to Roman culture and clam Roman heritage as their own for a thousand years and more? If America fell today, how much of our culture would endure? Most places that speak English in the world do so because of the British Empire, not because of anything America did. What about our civilization will last? T-Shirts, McDonalds, Ipods and Coca-Cola?
Nothing would endure. Countries respect us now because we have a dangerous military, they adopt our culture because we're rich. If we were poor and unarmed they'd peel off American culture like a snake shedding it's skin.
That's why there's no comparison between America and Rome. Our empire can't fall because we aren't an Empire. we have never passed from our Republican stage to our Imperial one. Right now we buy and sell and occasionally bully our way into other countries but when they thumb their noses at us we treat them as if they had a right as if there were some equivalence between our nation and their puny weakness.
Can you imagine what Rome would have done if an 'ally' treated them the way France and Germany have been treating the United States? So isn't it ironic that we are vilified as if we were like Rome, precisely because we aren't? While if we did act like Rome then they'd treat us with the respect we deserve.
America is at the end of it's Republic. Just as the Roman Senate and consuls became incapable of ruling their wide spread holdings and fighting off their enemies. So American's antiquated Constitution is a joke. Bureaucrats and courts make most of the decisions while the press decides which Presidents will have enough public support to govern. We lurch forward by inertia alone, but if America is to be an enduring polity it can't continue this way.
shush you know nothing on how we will fall codemonkey,
america will fall like rome, including barbarians attacking us!
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;26574398]Everybody compares America to Rome. But they compare the wrong thing. It's always "America is going to fall, just like Rome!" We should only be so lucky. Let's just fall like Rome did, after five hundred years of world domination.
The real q...uestion is how can America establish itself so it can endure the way Rome did? The only reason we care about the fall of Rome is because this Latin-speaking village in the heart of the Italian peninsula had forced it's culture and language on Gaul and Iberia and Dacia and Britannia and even after it fell the lands they conquered still clung to as much of that culture as they could. Why was Rome so successful?
Rome ruthlessly conquered dozens, hundreds of nations and tribes. Why, then when Rome fell did these former enemies cling to Roman culture and clam Roman heritage as their own for a thousand years and more? If America fell today, how much of our culture would endure? Most places that speak English in the world do so because of the British Empire, not because of anything America did. What about our civilization will last? T-Shirts, McDonalds, Ipods and Coca-Cola?
Nothing would endure. Countries respect us now because we have a dangerous military, they adopt our culture because we're rich. If we were poor and unarmed they'd peel off American culture like a snake shedding it's skin.
That's why there's no comparison between America and Rome. Our empire can't fall because we aren't an Empire. we have never passed from our Republican stage to our Imperial one. Right now we buy and sell and occasionally bully our way into other countries but when they thumb their noses at us we treat them as if they had a right as if there were some equivalence between our nation and their puny weakness.
Can you imagine what Rome would have done if an 'ally' treated them the way France and Germany have been treating the United States? So isn't it ironic that we are vilified as if we were like Rome, precisely because we aren't? While if we did act like Rome then they'd treat us with the respect we deserve.[/quote]
I agreed with your post.
[quote]America is at the end of it's Republic. Just as the Roman Senate and consuls became incapable of ruling their wide spread holdings and fighting off their enemies. So American's antiquated Constitution is a joke. Bureaucrats and courts make most of the decisions while the press decides which Presidents will have enough public support to govern. We lurch forward by inertia alone, but if America is to be an enduring polity it can't continue this way.[/QUOTE]
Until this part.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;26574398]Everybody compares America to Rome. But they compare the wrong thing. It's always "America is going to fall, just like Rome!" We should only be so lucky. Let's just fall like Rome did, after five hundred years of world domination.
The real q...uestion is how can America establish itself so it can endure the way Rome did? The only reason we care about the fall of Rome is because this Latin-speaking village in the heart of the Italian peninsula had forced it's culture and language on Gaul and Iberia and Dacia and Britannia and even after it fell the lands they conquered still clung to as much of that culture as they could. Why was Rome so successful?
Rome ruthlessly conquered dozens, hundreds of nations and tribes. Why, then when Rome fell did these former enemies cling to Roman culture and clam Roman heritage as their own for a thousand years and more? If America fell today, how much of our culture would endure? Most places that speak English in the world do so because of the British Empire, not because of anything America did. What about our civilization will last? T-Shirts, McDonalds, Ipods and Coca-Cola?
Nothing would endure. Countries respect us now because we have a dangerous military, they adopt our culture because we're rich. If we were poor and unarmed they'd peel off American culture like a snake shedding it's skin.
That's why there's no comparison between America and Rome. Our empire can't fall because we aren't an Empire. we have never passed from our Republican stage to our Imperial one. Right now we buy and sell and occasionally bully our way into other countries but when they thumb their noses at us we treat them as if they had a right as if there were some equivalence between our nation and their puny weakness.
Can you imagine what Rome would have done if an 'ally' treated them the way France and Germany have been treating the United States? So isn't it ironic that we are vilified as if we were like Rome, precisely because we aren't? While if we did act like Rome then they'd treat us with the respect we deserve.
America is at the end of it's Republic. Just as the Roman Senate and consuls became incapable of ruling their wide spread holdings and fighting off their enemies. So American's antiquated Constitution is a joke. Bureaucrats and courts make most of the decisions while the press decides which Presidents will have enough public support to govern. We lurch forward by inertia alone, but if America is to be an enduring polity it can't continue this way.[/QUOTE]
People clung to Roman culture after its fall due to the fact that the Roman Empire increased the standards of living in their newly conquered territories with their relatively highly advanced technology. A conquered tribesman in Gaul, would you like to live in the dirt and muck, fear full of enemy tribes killing you and taking your resources, or would you like to have a mansion compared to your hut with plumbing and public baths, protected by a professional army instead of peasants with pitchforks? Would you like to clutch to the few crops you can battle into growth with the few deer you're competing to hunt, or would you like to have the food an entire empire can supply to you?
[QUOTE=Explosions;26574337]We are not an empire because we do not have a monarch.[/QUOTE]
Remember that shit that Bush pulled and circumvented the rest of the government? I wouldn't be so sure.
[QUOTE=shatteredwindow;26575732]Remember that shit that Bush pulled and circumvented the rest of the government? I wouldn't be so sure.[/QUOTE]
Yes but his daughter is not queen.
But, it is one step closer to a dictatorship. If he could pull it, someone else could, and then it's just downhill.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26565397]Except the vast majority of Russians live in the west.
It's easy to say unpopulated land is unflattened :v:[/QUOTE]
Actually, during WWII, a big population from the west moved to the east around Siberia to escape the Germans.
You guys have no fucking sense of history. The fact is that this shit happens every 70 years: DEAL WIT IT.
Also, America has by far the most advanced industrial capacity in the world. Everyone else is catching up, but we're still going to be #1 for another few decades.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;26574398]Everybody compares America to Rome. But they compare the wrong thing. It's always "America is going to fall, just like Rome!" We should only be so lucky. Let's just fall like Rome did, after five hundred years of world domination.
The real q...uestion is how can America establish itself so it can endure the way Rome did? The only reason we care about the fall of Rome is because this Latin-speaking village in the heart of the Italian peninsula had forced it's culture and language on Gaul and Iberia and Dacia and Britannia and even after it fell the lands they conquered still clung to as much of that culture as they could. Why was Rome so successful?
Rome ruthlessly conquered dozens, hundreds of nations and tribes. Why, then when Rome fell did these former enemies cling to Roman culture and clam Roman heritage as their own for a thousand years and more? If America fell today, how much of our culture would endure? Most places that speak English in the world do so because of the British Empire, not because of anything America did. What about our civilization will last? T-Shirts, McDonalds, Ipods and Coca-Cola?
Nothing would endure. Countries respect us now because we have a dangerous military, they adopt our culture because we're rich. If we were poor and unarmed they'd peel off American culture like a snake shedding it's skin.
That's why there's no comparison between America and Rome. Our empire can't fall because we aren't an Empire. we have never passed from our Republican stage to our Imperial one. Right now we buy and sell and occasionally bully our way into other countries but when they thumb their noses at us we treat them as if they had a right as if there were some equivalence between our nation and their puny weakness.
Can you imagine what Rome would have done if an 'ally' treated them the way France and Germany have been treating the United States? So isn't it ironic that we are vilified as if we were like Rome, precisely because we aren't? While if we did act like Rome then they'd treat us with the respect we deserve.
America is at the end of it's Republic. Just as the Roman Senate and consuls became incapable of ruling their wide spread holdings and fighting off their enemies. So American's antiquated Constitution is a joke. Bureaucrats and courts make most of the decisions while the press decides which Presidents will have enough public support to govern. We lurch forward by inertia alone, but if America is to be an enduring polity it can't continue this way.[/QUOTE]
I remember reading this exact quote from somewhere else.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;26574398]Most places that speak English in the world do so because of the British Empire, not because of anything America did. [/QUOTE]
Nope. 'Merica.
Seriously, Globalization has necessitated bilingualism in every country except the US and Britain. South Korea isn't importing American English teachers for preschoolers because of the British Empire.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26565177]So what are we supposed to discuss in this thread? About how we think America is in a decline? They've been saying that for every decade since the 60's.
America in the 50's was a beautiful place, the golden age. I'd have loved to have lived in a house with a white picket fence, with a local store down the street with bottles of coca cola for ten cents a pop.
Every bit of american life has been vulgarized. The innocence of the 'frontier' is over, and it has been replaced with corporate slime, attaching itself to every orifice of the modern world.[/QUOTE]
That's what happens when you have manifest destiny.
[QUOTE=Jewsus;26576333]Nope. 'Merica.
Seriously, Globalization has necessitated bilingualism in every country except the US and Britain. South Korea isn't importing American English teachers for preschoolers because of the British Empire.[/QUOTE]
I'm an overly patriotic American too, but he's still right. Think of all the colonization the British Empire did.
Sorry, I just can't take this article seriously. He clearly doesn't understand most of what he's talking about.
1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most future GDP estimates made by getting the average GDP increase during a certain time period(usually five years) then using that average to calculate the future GDP? If that's the case, there's no way to know if China's growth will sustain for another 20 years, especially with Mexico, Brazil and India rapidly moving to challenge China.
2. Even if China surpassed the U.S. by 2025, we would remain the second largest economy and we would still have the funds to keep our Military large enough to maintain ourselves as a world power.
Overall, this article is just terrible. 80 percent of what he wrote is purely hypothetical and the other 20 percent is based on the idea that China will continue to grow at it's current rate.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;26574398]Everybody compares America to Rome. But they compare the wrong thing. It's always "America is going to fall, just like Rome!" We should only be so lucky. Let's just fall like Rome did, after five hundred years of world domination.
The real q...uestion is how can America establish itself so it can endure the way Rome did? The only reason we care about the fall of Rome is because this Latin-speaking village in the heart of the Italian peninsula had forced it's culture and language on Gaul and Iberia and Dacia and Britannia and even after it fell the lands they conquered still clung to as much of that culture as they could. Why was Rome so successful?
Rome ruthlessly conquered dozens, hundreds of nations and tribes. Why, then when Rome fell did these former enemies cling to Roman culture and clam Roman heritage as their own for a thousand years and more? If America fell today, how much of our culture would endure? Most places that speak English in the world do so because of the British Empire, not because of anything America did. What about our civilization will last? T-Shirts, McDonalds, Ipods and Coca-Cola?[/quote]
Yes. Pop culture is pretty much American culture. Coca-Cola, Hollywood, et cetera- all are pretty much globally-recognized symbols.
[quote]Nothing would endure. Countries respect us now because we have a dangerous military, they adopt our culture because we're rich. If we were poor and unarmed they'd peel off American culture like a snake shedding it's skin.
That's why there's no comparison between America and Rome. Our empire can't fall because we aren't an Empire. we have never passed from our Republican stage to our Imperial one. Right now we buy and sell and occasionally bully our way into other countries but when they thumb their noses at us we treat them as if they had a right as if there were some equivalence between our nation and their puny weakness.
Can you imagine what Rome would have done if an 'ally' treated them the way France and Germany have been treating the United States? So isn't it ironic that we are vilified as if we were like Rome, precisely because we aren't? While if we did act like Rome then they'd treat us with the respect we deserve.
America is at the end of it's Republic. Just as the Roman Senate and consuls became incapable of ruling their wide spread holdings and fighting off their enemies. So American's antiquated Constitution is a joke. Bureaucrats and courts make most of the decisions while the press decides which Presidents will have enough public support to govern. We lurch forward by inertia alone, but if America is to be an enduring polity it can't continue this way.[/QUOTE]
I'd argue that modern democracy was formed largely with American influence. The United States was one of the first successful democracies, and a lot of our history is defined by the notion of spreading democratic ideals, from early imperialism to the Cold War. Pretty much every important and effectual country has some form or other of democracy in their government.
[QUOTE=Snuffy;26578190]Yes. Pop culture is pretty much American culture. Coca-Cola, Hollywood, et cetera- all are pretty much globally-recognized symbols.
I'd argue that modern democracy was formed largely with American influence. The United States was one of the first successful democracies, and a lot of our history is defined by the notion of spreading democratic ideals, from early imperialism to the Cold War. Pretty much every important and effectual country has some form or other of democracy in their government.[/QUOTE]
And to add to that, practically every modern democratic country's government was based off of our Constitution.
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