Burglar dies after 68-year-old homeowner ties him to tree with ‘multiple layers of masking tape’ - Polidicks

The guy broke in believing no was home, it states in the source he tried to make it look like no one was home. I'm not defending the break in but it also seems like he had no intention of murdering the occupant.

[QUOTE=srobins;50811703]The Smith case also involved him shooting two teens to death and taunting them as they died, a far cry from an old man capturing a burglar and not realizing the burglar was incapable of breathing through his nose.[/QUOTE] I am not directly comparing it to this case, I am just showing one of the cases where premeditation is a big deal. He purposefully contributed to creating the situation where he accidentally killed a man. If he stepped out of line by moving to car, hiding behind the door, etc, he might hold a different responsibility towards what happened to the man on his property, as the situation might not have been created if he din't take those actions.

[QUOTE=plunger435;50811756][url]http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf[/url] Stats say otherwise.[/QUOTE] Oh thank god, only a 8% chance of being murdered in my own home. Next time I'll invite the thief to have dinner with me!

[QUOTE=srobins;50811703]Why do you even care? What function are you performing by chastising me like a child for insulting a literal thief? I don't see what difference it makes.[/QUOTE] it was a passing comment, it's kind of a normal thing to do you're bordering on 90s sitcom bully over a thief who died an unnecessary death <- see this is also a passing comment that you can get over like a normal human being OR pretend this one line is a sermon on moral values like you've been doing so far

[QUOTE=srobins;50811703] Why do you even care? What function are you performing by chastising me like a child for insulting a literal thief? I don't see what difference it makes. [/QUOTE] Human empathy? Compassion? Sympathy? Maybe people don't think thief's should die? Maybe somebody believes in the rechtstaat? Maybe somebody thinks they might be a valuable contribution to society at a different point in their lives? Maybe somebody believes vigilante justice is a bad thing? Maybe they believe all lives are holy? Is it really that hard to come up with a possible answer for that question? Like sure you don't give a shit, but is it really that hard to believe somebody else might?

[QUOTE=srobins;50811793]Oh thank god, only a 8% chance of being murdered in my own home. Next time I'll invite the thief to have dinner with me![/QUOTE] Yeah, ONLY 8%! Sorry, I'd rather not take that risk. While I would rather not have to harm anyone, if you enter my home illegally, I will take the appropriate steps to defend it.

[QUOTE=bdd458;50811818]Yeah, ONLY 8%! Sorry, I'd rather not take that risk. While I would rather not have to harm anyone, if you enter my home illegally, I will take the appropriate steps to defend it.[/QUOTE] No one's saying you shouldn't defend yourself in the case of a home invasion. But setting a trap and killing a burglar who most likely was only there because he thought the property is empty isn't right.

[QUOTE=bdd458;50811818]Yeah, ONLY 8%! Sorry, I'd rather not take that risk. While I would rather not have to harm anyone, if you enter my home illegally, I will take the appropriate steps to defend it.[/QUOTE] Restraining someone so the police can take them away is an appropriate step to defend your house, and other peoples' as well. Taping over somebody's mouth is not an appropriate step to defending your house. The fact that he did it at all raises pretty big red flags. If he didn't do anything wrong, why should he have a problem with other people hearing what's going on?

[QUOTE=srobins;50811793]Oh thank god, only a 8% chance of being murdered in my own home. Next time I'll invite the thief to have dinner with me![/QUOTE] [QUOTE=bdd458;50811818]Yeah, ONLY 8%! Sorry, I'd rather not take that risk. While I would rather not have to harm anyone, if you enter my home illegally, I will take the appropriate steps to defend it.[/QUOTE] That's not the statistic from the study, this is: [QUOTE]Between 2003 and 2007, approximately 2.1 million household burglaries were reported to the FBI each year on average. Household burglaries ending in homicide made up 0.004% of all burglaries during that period.[/QUOTE] How can most burglars be murderers if 0.004% of burglaries end in homicides, keep in mind that 0.004% includes the burglars dying as well. You're far more likely to be burgled by someone you know than be in danger of dying in a burglary. [QUOTE]Offendersknown to their victims accounted for 65% of these burglaries;strangers accounted for 28%.[/QUOTE]

"Johnson told police that he confronted the person, prompting the suspected burglar to fall or jump off the back steps, Al.com reported. Johnson subdued the man once he was on the ground and tied his hands behind his back, " This is the part I have trouble with in this case. Somehow this frail old man gained control of the younger man...because he fell I guess. Whatever. But once you have him with his hands tied behind his back, it's over. Go to your neighbors and call the cops. Dragging him to a tree and killing him is completely uncalled for. Let's face it, even by the old man's own words the tree bit is the part that killed the guy. It sounds like he's getting a free pass “I don’t think he was intending to kill the intruder,” Stringer told WALA. “I think he wanted to capture him and have him arrested.” That's the county sheriff talking. He's already decided there's no crime, let's just take the old man's word for everything and call it a day.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;50812273]"Johnson told police that he confronted the person, prompting the suspected burglar to fall or jump off the back steps, Al.com reported. Johnson subdued the man once he was on the ground and tied his hands behind his back, " This is the part I have trouble with in this case. Somehow this frail old man gained control of the younger man...because he fell I guess. Whatever. But once you have him with his hands tied behind his back, it's over. Go to your neighbors and call the cops. Dragging him to a tree and killing him is completely uncalled for. Let's face it, even by the old man's own words the tree bit is the part that killed the guy. It sounds like he's getting a free pass “I don’t think he was intending to kill the intruder,” Stringer told WALA. “I think he wanted to capture him and have him arrested.” That's the county sheriff talking. He's already decided there's no crime, let's just take the old man's word for everything and call it a day.[/QUOTE] You honestly don't think this guy wanted to kill the robber, do you? For the part where you say it was over, what if the guy gets away while you're calling the police? Keeping him tied to something eliminates that risk, with no reasonable disadvantages. Could have taped his mouth to stop him from yelling and waking up the whole neighborhood, from people getting the wrong idea, hell, because he simply didn't want to hear the guy blithering is a decent enough reason.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50812392]You honestly don't think this guy wanted to kill the robber, do you? For the part where you say it was over, what if the guy gets away while you're calling the police? Keeping him tied to something eliminates that risk, with no reasonable disadvantages. Could have taped his mouth to stop him from yelling and waking up the whole neighborhood, from people getting the wrong idea, hell, because he simply didn't want to hear the guy blithering is a decent enough reason.[/QUOTE] No it isn't. Covering someone's face with something that can form an airtight seal like tape is a bad decision in all accounts for this exact reason. Keep the guy tied up, call the police and stay by him to explain to any passers by why you've tied someone to a tree. Don't block their airways and leave them, do you think that looks better somehow?

[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;50812531]No it isn't. Covering someone's face with something that can form an airtight seal like tape is a bad decision in all accounts for this exact reason. Keep the guy tied up, call the police and stay by him to explain to any passers by why you've tied someone to a tree. Don't block their airways and leave them, do you think that looks better somehow?[/QUOTE] I want you to keep your mouth closed and lips sealed and breathe through your nose while you read this and type a response. If you complete typing a response to the post, then we know that taping his mouth, while extraordinary, is not a cause for abuse or physical harm. If for some reason you should not complete the post, we will assume you forgot how to utilize the other half of your airway, and you did not make it through the test. In which case, we are sorry for the loss...

[QUOTE=Revenge282;50812750]I want you to keep your mouth closed and lips sealed and breathe through your nose while you read this and type a response. If you complete typing a response to the post, then we know that taping his mouth, while extraordinary, is not a cause for abuse or physical harm. If for some reason you should not complete the post, we will assume you forgot how to utilize the other half of your airway, and you did not make it through the test. In which case, we are sorry for the loss...[/QUOTE] You're assuming that the mouth-taping hasn't blocked his nose in this case. Assuming it was hastily put on, it's entirely possible that the thief would have had a harder time breathing. It could also be compounded with a number of other medical problems that the guy might have had, or were triggered by the stress of being fucking tied to a tree with your mouth covered. Stress and panic do weird things to what we otherwise consider simple autonomous tasks our bodies perform.

This is some Space Station 13 shit

Probably couldn't breathe because he was wrapped with three different materials tightly to a tree, he most likely couldn't expand his chest to get any air in due to being securely tied, so even if his nose was uncovered he'd have died.

[QUOTE=SleepyAl;50813133]Probably couldn't breathe because he was wrapped with three different materials tightly to a tree, he most likely couldn't expand his chest to get any air in due to being securely tied, so even if his nose was uncovered he'd have died.[/QUOTE] Was just going to say this, I feel like this is the actual culprit.

[QUOTE=SleepyAl;50813133]Probably couldn't breathe because he was wrapped with three different materials tightly to a tree, he most likely couldn't expand his chest to get any air in due to being securely tied, so even if his nose was uncovered he'd have died.[/QUOTE] That's why I say it was completely uncalled for. There's nothing to be gained by tying him to a tree and taping any part of his face up that you haven't already gained by tying his hands behind his back. Either you know how to tie someone up or you don't, the tree isn't going to help. If he escapes? So what? You know who he is and can inform the police. If he's stupid enough to come back you can capture him again. If you obstruct his breathing and he dies, you've killed a person for no good reason. Taking the guy into custody comes with responsibility, you do that and you are taking responsibility for his life. Unless maybe you have friends in the right places and they got your back. edit: by 'you' I don't mean you, I mean anyone who'd do something like this

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;50813365]That's why I say it was completely uncalled for. There's nothing to be gained by tying him to a tree and taping any part of his face up that you haven't already gained by tying his hands behind his back. Either you know how to tie someone up or you don't, the tree isn't going to help. If he escapes? So what? You know who he is and can inform the police. If he's stupid enough to come back you can capture him again. If you obstruct his breathing and he dies, you've killed a person for no good reason. Taking the guy into custody comes with responsibility, you do that and you are taking responsibility for his life. Unless maybe you have friends in the right places and they got your back. edit: by 'you' I don't mean you, I mean anyone who'd do something like this[/QUOTE] Unless he knew that putting tape over his mouth would kill him (he probably didn't) then it's pretty much just accidental death. You only get charged if you purposefully did something you knew was dangerous, if he was unaware that it was dangerous (because he's not a medical expert) then it's unlikely to be counted as manslaughter.

remember, breaking or not breaking the laws aren't what dictate whether or not you get imprisoned, the jury does. the law lays out a platform for the jury to decide on