• Obama praises Australia's, UK's gun laws following mass shooting
    400 replies, posted
[QUOTE=archangel125;48833617]All right, I'll address your comment about Canadian gun laws directly. They're far from perfect and some of them are just plain stupid, but I'd still rather have that over a system resembling that in some American States any day. You'll notice that shooting deaths in Canada are relatively rare per annum - That's as it should be. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but do you really think if we had as many guns as them and the second amendment here with the same laws there would be as many unjustified shootings? I think its a cultural thing, if you flood a swedish village and a village in a brazillian slum with guns which one do you think would be more likely to have a higher murder rate? I dont think the gun laws here are the main thing keeping the shootings down.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;48833728]Yeah, but do you really think if we had as many guns as them and the second amendment here with the same laws there would be as many unjustified shootings? I think its a cultural thing, if you flood a swedish village and a village in a brazillian slum with guns which one do you think would be more likely to have a higher murder rate? I dont think the gun laws here are the main thing keeping the shootings down.[/QUOTE] Lax gun laws in the united states have given rise to that sort of culture.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48831628]No.[/QUOTE] Absolutely yes. We can't have people walking around with handguns in their pockets anymore. Shootings [U]like these[/U] are gonna keep happening as long as there are handguns readily available. [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48831628]So you mean you want people to buy sniper rifles then? I mean if you're going to start kicking out sensationalist, uninformed positions why don't you call a fucking spade a spade here, you want people to own high-caliber sniper rifles capable of hitting a man-sized target over half a mile away.[/quote] First of all, I didn't say [url=http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/M408_9061.jpg]high caliber sniper rifle[/url], I said [url=http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/6/files/10-new-deer-rifles-you-should-know-about/01_browning-x-bolt-micro-midas.jpg]hunting rifle[/url]. Secondly, I'd rather see a lunatic with a sniper rifle attempt to shoot up a school than using a small gun. Think about it. It takes a skilled firearms user to operate a rifle. And you can't just walk up to a crowd of people with a big ass rifle without drawing some attention. [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48831628]Well I'm tired of uninformed people talking about shit they know nothing about, but unfortunately we can't always get what we want.[/QUOTE] I try to stay as informed as I possibly can. If you can enlighten me, please do so. But the way I see it, we NEED to limit the distribution of guns to average joe civilians. [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48831628]Violent crime has been and will continue to decrease steadily, (shooting sprees are violent crime, by the way) so I'm perfectly okay with that trend.[/QUOTE] That's great. but what I'm talking about is reform of how anybody can get their hands on a gun. You don't need to be a recognized criminal or have a restraining order to be homicidal. To me, it's a power balance. Guns sole purpose is to destroy, and the way the system is right now, in many states, it's like they're being given out like candy. [editline]5th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;48832312]...she said at the helm of her minivan, carrying the kids to their soccer training through her gated neighborhood.[/QUOTE] Sorry for caring about [B]human life[/B].
[QUOTE=archangel125;48833771]Lax gun laws in the united states have given rise to that sort of culture.[/QUOTE] Did you know that it's legal to shoot someone to get your stolen property back in texas? This guy paid a hooker a hundred bucks or something to fuck, then she turned him down and as she drove off he shot her car up with an ak47 killing her. The court ruled it justified since she she did not provide the service and stole his money.
[QUOTE=archangel125;48833617]And this is exactly the kind of shit I'm talking about.[/QUOTE] Because the post I responded to totally wasn't a pile of ignorant, inflammatory garbage. [QUOTE=ThePanther;48833811]Sorry for caring about [B]human life[/B].[/QUOTE] There's caring for human life, and there's having the same worldview as the typical suburban soccer mom. The very definition of uninformed, sheltered, and a bit of a cunt.
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;48833860]Because the post I responded to totally wasn't a pile of ignorant, inflammatory garbage. [/QUOTE] Actually, I didn't see it as such. You're way too angry about it to be objective. Again, this is exactly the sort of shit I'm talking about.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;48833829]Did you know that it's legal to shoot someone to get your stolen property back in texas? This guy paid a hooker a hundred bucks or something to fuck, then she turned him down and as she drove off he shot her car up with an ak47 killing her. The court ruled it justified since she she did not provide the service and stole his money.[/QUOTE] Here's the article about that: [url]http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/10/opinion/moore-texas-craziness/[/url] Holy shit, go America. You really are the nation of defending the people. I can see why so many people disagree with Obama trying to adhere to a modern gun regulation system. It's so embedded in our culture that we legally can get away with murder. haha oh god why. [editline]5th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;48833860]Because the post I responded to totally wasn't a pile of ignorant, inflammatory garbage. There's caring for human life, and there's having the same worldview as the typical suburban soccer mom. The very definition of uninformed, sheltered, and a bit of a cunt.[/QUOTE] I'll be a total cunt if it means changing how gun distribution is handled. I've gone with friends to Arizona and seen how to buy a .45 handgun. It took less than 10 minutes for him to get his gun with ammunition, and walk out of the store. It's ridiculously easy to obtain firearms here, it's absurd.
[QUOTE=ThePanther;48833904]Obama trying to adhere to a modern gun regulation system[/QUOTE] If by that you mean "try to blanket ban a category of firearms used in 0.02% of gun crime because it looks scary", then Barry is totally trying to adhere to a modern regulation system. As an Euro who bought himself an AK for his 19th birthday without much hassle, I suggest you further educate yourself on gun laws and crime worldwide before you post shit like [QUOTE]USA needs to limit what kind of guns people can buy. No more hand guns. Sorry. No more AR-15s. Sorry. If you want a gun, you'd better be hunting, and it'd better be a hunting rifle.[/QUOTE] again, confirming you have no fucking clue about the subject at hand.
lmao at thinking AR-15s aren't hunting rifles. They're pretty much the best rifle for hunting on the market right now, not to mention for home defense due to its much lower penetration rates compared to a standard shotgun or handgun. So you know, you don't accidentally wound grandma instead of the home invader. Also, I'll continue getting ready to house a gun collection, because I want them (like dude who wouldn't want a piece of history? Plus for reenacting). I've met a lot of people from outside the states who enjoy guns and being able to own them, so please don't act like everyone in countries with super strict laws on guns is happy with those laws. [editline]5th October 2015[/editline] like I honestly don't understand why some anti-gun people treat gun-owners like children who need to be scolded and punished for liking guns. maybe people wouldn't be so hostile to them if you wanted an actual discussion, rather than trying to feel morally superior. not every anti-gun person is like that obviously, but at least online that is an attitude I see a lot.
[QUOTE=ThePanther;48833811]First of all, I didn't say [url=http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/M408_9061.jpg]high caliber sniper rifle[/url], I said [url=http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/6/files/10-new-deer-rifles-you-should-know-about/01_browning-x-bolt-micro-midas.jpg]hunting rifle[/url]. Secondly, I'd rather see a lunatic with a sniper rifle attempt to shoot up a school than using a small gun. Think about it. It takes a skilled firearms user to operate a rifle. And you can't just walk up to a crowd of people with a big ass rifle without drawing some attention.[/QUOTE] You said hunting rifle, which is typically [i]exactly the same[/i] as a 'high caliber sniper rifle'. The military-issue M40 sniper rifles are exactly the same as regular ol' Remington 700s used by hunters. JumpinJackFlash is making fun of the usual hyperbole around AR-15s by describing a standard hunting rifle in ~scary terms~. It absolutely does not take a 'skilled firearms user' to operate a bolt-action rifle, and mass shooters using ARs and other rifles have either concealed them in bags (not hard to do) or started their attack from a car. Either way, the bulk of a hunting rifle or shotgun isn't going to change anything. [QUOTE=ThePanther;48833811]Sorry for caring about [B]human life[/B].[/QUOTE] So you want to deprive women of self-defense because you're pro-rape and pro-murder, right? We all care about human life, we only disagree on how best to protect it. Stop with the 'gotcha' emotional rhetoric.
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;48834044]If by that you mean "try to blanket ban a category of firearms used in 0.02% of gun crime because it looks scary", then Barry is totally trying to adhere to a modern regulation system. As an Euro who bought himself an AK for his 19th birthday without much hassle, I suggest you further educate yourself on gun laws and crime worldwide before you post shit like again, confirming you have no fucking clue about the subject at hand.[/QUOTE] Sorry, I'm not talking about affecting all gun crime, I'm talking about mass shootings of random innocents. This study from 2013 says that most mass shootings involve some kind of pistol or handgun, along with shotguns and ar-15 style rifles: [url]https://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/rpt/2013-R-0057.htm[/url] If we want to greatly decrease mass shootings, I think regulating firearms distribution is the way to go.
[QUOTE=ThePanther;48833904]Here's the article about that: [url]http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/10/opinion/moore-texas-craziness/[/url] Holy shit, go America. You really are the nation of defending the people. I can see why so many people disagree with Obama trying to adhere to a modern gun regulation system. It's so embedded in our culture that we legally can get away with murder. haha oh god why. [editline]5th October 2015[/editline] I'll be a total cunt if it means changing how gun distribution is handled. I've gone with friends to Arizona and seen how to buy a .45 handgun. It took less than 10 minutes for him to get his gun with ammunition, and walk out of the store. It's ridiculously easy to obtain firearms here, it's absurd.[/QUOTE] It's also just about as easy to walk into a farming supply store and walkout with 2000 pounds of ammonium nitrate. You need to realize the only thing keeping people from harming eachother isnt the law but themselves. If you try to take away peoples ability to do harm to eachother you will fail every time. What's more effective is focusing on the community and mental health treatment.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;48834168]It's also just about as easy to walk into a farming supply store and walkout with 2000 pounds of ammonium nitrate. You need to realize the only thing keeping people from harming eachother isnt the law but themselves. If you try to take away peoples ability to do harm to eachother you will fail every time. What's more effective is focusing on the community and mental health treatment.[/QUOTE] Um no. [quote]Primarily used in fertilizer, when mixed with other substances the chemical becomes highly explosive, the new legislation will require anyone buying more than 25 pounds to register, be screened against a known terrorist list, and require any thefts to be reported within 24 hours.[/quote] [url]http://www.businessinsider.com/oklahoma-city-bombing-ammonium-nitrate-sales-regulated-2011-8[/url] Look, I understand how some of you guys may have been brought up around firearms and are used to them. I'll tell you, I wasn't. But I do know how to operate them. I've taken lessons (NRA) on properly firing and loading and handling rifles and pistols. I've gone shooting many times with friends, at gun ranges. It's fun, I get why you would not want to loose that. But I'm not talking about banning guns, I'm talking about reforming the way they are distributed. It's way to easy to get your hands on a firearm, especially if you have a clean record.
[QUOTE=ThePanther;48833811]Absolutely yes. We can't have people walking around with handguns in their pockets anymore. Shootings [U]like these[/U] are gonna keep happening as long as there are handguns readily available. First of all, I didn't say [url=http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/M408_9061.jpg]high caliber sniper rifle[/url], I said [url=http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/6/files/10-new-deer-rifles-you-should-know-about/01_browning-x-bolt-micro-midas.jpg]hunting rifle[/url]. Secondly, I'd rather see a lunatic with a sniper rifle attempt to shoot up a school than using a small gun. Think about it. It takes a skilled firearms user to operate a rifle. And you can't just walk up to a crowd of people with a big ass rifle without drawing some attention. I try to stay as informed as I possibly can. If you can enlighten me, please do so. But the way I see it, we NEED to limit the distribution of guns to average joe civilians. That's great. but what I'm talking about is reform of how anybody can get their hands on a gun. You don't need to be a recognized criminal or have a restraining order to be homicidal. To me, it's a power balance. Guns sole purpose is to destroy, and the way the system is right now, in many states, it's like they're being given out like candy. [editline]5th October 2015[/editline] Sorry for caring about [B]human life[/B].[/QUOTE] I don't understand how someone can be so willfully ignorant.
[QUOTE=archangel125;48833771]Lax gun laws in the united states have given rise to that sort of culture.[/QUOTE] Suuuuuuuuure They have some pretty lax gun laws in Switzerland but I don't see any headlines of swiss schools being shot up by disgruntled youths
[QUOTE=ThePanther;48833811]Absolutely yes. We can't have people walking around with handguns in their pockets anymore. Shootings [U]like these[/U] are gonna keep happening as long as there are handguns readily available.[/QUOTE]I don't fucking care. Maybe if you wanted to stop shootings like these you'd be all for more conceal-carry training for everyday people and the removal of "gun free zones" where these incidents [U]always[/U] occur. Name a single fucking time somebody shot up a gun show, where people who don't conceal carry are in the minority and literally everyone has access to firearms. Please. [QUOTE=ThePanther;48833811]First of all, I didn't say [url=http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/M408_9061.jpg]high caliber sniper rifle[/url], I said [url=http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/6/files/10-new-deer-rifles-you-should-know-about/01_browning-x-bolt-micro-midas.jpg]hunting rifle[/url].[/QUOTE]Yes you did, but you're too goddamn naive to understand that sniper rifles are functionally no different than civilian hunting rifles aside from a simple fucking paint job. So tell me, does painting a rifle black make it more deadly? That's what you're asserting, and even if you don't realize it you're arguing from a position of [B]complete[/B] ignorance against somebody who has literally a lifetime of rifle shooting, specifically long-range rifle shooting. [QUOTE=ThePanther;48833811]Secondly, I'd rather see a lunatic with a sniper rifle attempt to shoot up a school than using a small gun. Think about it. It takes a skilled firearms user to operate a rifle. And you can't just walk up to a crowd of people with a big ass rifle without drawing some attention.[/QUOTE]Oh, so big weapons are less deadly than small ones according to you because they require some arbitrary prerequisite skill level you're pulling out of your ass. Got it. You bitch about the AR-15 and how we don't need it but in the same fucking post you assert that hunting rifles are somehow more safe? What? A semi-automatic hunting rifle is just as deadly as that AR-15, probably more so given that it's going to be in a higher caliber. [QUOTE=ThePanther;48833811]I try to stay as informed as I possibly can. If you can enlighten me, please do so. But the way I see it, we NEED to limit the distribution of guns to average joe civilians.[/QUOTE]Clearly you don't, or else you wouldn't be so fucking wrong. [QUOTE=ThePanther;48833811]That's great. but what I'm talking about is reform of how anybody can get their hands on a gun.[/QUOTE]Please, start citing laws that you have an issue with. I don't even think you've reviewed the laws we have on the books let alone understand them, because if you did you'd be fully aware that not "anybody" can buy firearms. [QUOTE=ThePanther;48833811]You don't need to be a recognized criminal or have a restraining order to be homicidal.[/QUOTE]Yeah. Sometimes they wear fancy uniforms and have a badge that says "POLICE" on it too. [QUOTE=ThePanther;48833811]To me, it's a power balance.[/QUOTE]It always is with you fascists, isn't it? It comes down to fear, really, you're afraid that there are normal people just like yourself who aren't scared of what goes bump in the night, so you want the almighty authorities to shove them down to your level so you don't feel inadequate anymore. You don't care about other people's lives, no, deep down all you care about is your own comforts. I have told you ways to preserve life and you reject it because of that feeling of apprehension and uncertainty deep in your belly just can't let you take that risk. [QUOTE=ThePanther;48834215]Um no. [url]http://www.businessinsider.com/oklahoma-city-bombing-ammonium-nitrate-sales-regulated-2011-8[/url][/QUOTE]Three things completely fucking broken with this stupid argument: - People can simply lie about who they are - Theft of ammonium nitrate isn't hard at all, it comes in 10, 25, or 50lb bags. - You can easily make ammonium nitrate or, even easier, urea nitrate. Ingredients: water, dirt, manure Also 25lbs of ammonium nitrate is plenty enough. 10lbs can make a shaped charge (with a little playing around, pure ANFO won't do for an explosive) that can cut through 150mm of steel armor plate, 5lbs with another 2.5lbs of 1/2" ball bearings packed around it and detonated at chest height can shower a 150ft radius in deadly shrapnel. A straight up 25lb charge of ANFO packed into a backpack and loaded up with all kinds of shrapnel would be devastating in a crowded room, you could kill hundreds without ever picking up a gun. [QUOTE=ThePanther;48834215]Look, I understand how some of you guys may have been brought up around firearms and are used to them. I'll tell you, I wasn't.[/QUOTE]Yeah, no shit. We got that right away when you were absolutely wrong from the moment you made your post. [QUOTE=ThePanther;48834215]I've gone shooting many times with friends, at gun ranges. It's fun, I get why you would not want to loose that.[/QUOTE]"I shot a gun a couple of times, trust me guys I get it!" [QUOTE=ThePanther;48834215]It's way to easy to get your hands on a firearm, especially if you have a clean record. [/QUOTE]Get this everyone! Somebody who hasn't done anything wrong can buy something without the government giving them shit, oh how terrible! No. This is the United fucking States of America, take your fascist nanny state bullshit somewhere else because we have plenty of it here already and we don't need any more.
[QUOTE=catbarf;48834144]You said hunting rifle, which is typically [i]exactly the same[/i] as a 'high caliber sniper rifle'. The military-issue M40 sniper rifles are exactly the same as regular ol' Remington 700s used by hunters. JumpinJackFlash is making fun of the usual hyperbole around AR-15s by describing a standard hunting rifle in ~scary terms~. It absolutely does not take a 'skilled firearms user' to operate a bolt-action rifle, and mass shooters using ARs and other rifles have either concealed them in bags (not hard to do) or started their attack from a car. Either way, the bulk of a hunting rifle or shotgun isn't going to change anything. So you want to deprive women of self-defense because you're pro-rape and pro-murder, right? We all care about human life, we only disagree on how best to protect it. Stop with the 'gotcha' emotional rhetoric.[/QUOTE] Guns are far less effective in self-defense situations than you would like to think: [url]http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/[/url]
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48835331]Guns are far less effective in self-defense situations than you would like to think: [url]http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/[/url][/QUOTE] Haha, the fact that it comes from harvard instantly discredits it
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48835331]Guns are far less effective in self-defense situations than you would like to think: [url]http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/[/url][/QUOTE]Congratulations, you've cited a source that cites David Hemenway several times. I have that book by the way, and he doesn't actually track data himself but rather ask other people about their opinions and the entire thing isn't the scathing review of gun culture as is advertised. David Hemenway is a quack, and anyway that piece has a clear bias that's evident in the condescending tone it has for gun owners. I tried to track down some other sources cited in it but came up with nothing, so I'm just going to call it quits and assume it's more bullshit "research" that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Yeah, it's really harmful to academia to just assume that an article is solid just because it comes from a ~prestiged~ institution like ~harvard~. If I were attending harvard I could probably publish a satirical anti-gun article under harvard's domain and have it taken as seriously as the article Headhumpy posted.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;48835467]Yeah, it's really harmful to academia to just assume that an article is solid just because it comes from a ~prestiged~ institution like ~harvard~. If I were attending harvard I could probably publish a satirical anti-gun article under harvard's domain and have it taken as seriously as the article Headhumpy posted.[/QUOTE]That's usually how it goes. I've seen that posted before and taken deadly seriously like all of Havard gathered together to carefully write it up. It's that brand bias thing, people just see a brand they like or hate or have otherwise attributed certain qualities toward and then formulate their entire opinion based off of that. Doing that is never a good idea, even if you completely agree with the source, the article, and whoever posted it you should still examine it in great detail. I mean I could keep going with that thing but I don't expect much to come from it and really this is an internet argument against foreigners who don't even live here under our laws anyway, it's not like any of this [I]really[/I] matters.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48835512] I mean I could keep going with that thing but I don't expect much to come from it and really this is an internet argument against foreigners who don't even live here under our laws anyway, it's not like any of this [I]really[/I] matters.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I guess, but I just get ticked off when I see people from outside the US (especially Europeans, and of that crowd, English people in particular) approach this entire issue (and others) with their ever-present "holier than thou" attitude. It's always SOME country that does SOMETHING better than the US, it's almost like they marginalize the uniqueness of the US's composition compared to most of Europe.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;48835550]Yeah, I guess, but I just get ticked off when I see people from outside the US (especially Europeans, and of that crowd, English people in particular) approach this entire issue with their ever-present "holier than thou" attitude.[/QUOTE]I know, I feel the same way, but that's just how it goes. They just don't understand it and they likely never will understand it, so I just shrug and let it be.. their opinion doesn't count at all at the end of the day, they're in their own countries and we're in ours. Like I said none of this really matters.
The way you're talking about guns is pretty disturbing so I don't really have a problem being a holier than thou foreigner that doesn't understand. At the end of the day our society isn't one that has to arm school teachers.
[QUOTE=ThePanther;48831281]USA needs to limit what kind of guns people can buy. No more hand guns. Sorry. No more AR-15s. Sorry. If you want a gun, you'd better be hunting, and it'd better be a hunting rifle. I'm tired of these bullshit public shootings. There is NO reason why anyone should have to die while out in public, because some percentage of people want their guns (hobbyists) and a small percent of those people want to use them to kill innocent masses of random people. It's fucking stupid. At this point, if you're still ok with how guns are distributed, you're also saying you're ok with the trend of random mass shootings we've been having.[/QUOTE] You can use handguns for hunting. AR-15's are great varmint hunting rifles. Most hunting rifles are high caliber weapons, some sniper systems even being based off hunting rifles. I find it funny everytime I see an emotionally charged post from someone who clearly lacks knowledge on the subject at hand. You have the first amendment right to say you dislike the second, while I can use the second to defend your first amendment rights. All of the amendments in the Bill of Rights are meant for each other. Even nowadays the second is still very important. Also. for crying out loud people, gun crime rates are still dropping. Lowest they have been since before the Assault Weapons ban that was totally ineffective! I mean, why do we need to get rid of something rarely used in crimes, also, how do you PLAN on accomplishing this gun ban?
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48835410]Congratulations, you've cited a source that cites David Hemenway several times. I have that book by the way, and he doesn't actually track data himself but rather ask other people about their opinions and the entire thing isn't the scathing review of gun culture as is advertised. David Hemenway is a quack, and anyway that piece has a clear bias that's evident in the condescending tone it has for gun owners. I tried to track down some other sources cited in it but came up with nothing, so I'm just going to call it quits and assume it's more bullshit "research" that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure those are articles published in peer-reviewed journals.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;48835646]The way you're talking about guns is pretty disturbing so I don't really have a problem being a holier than thou foreigner that doesn't understand. At the end of the day our society isn't one that has to arm school teachers.[/QUOTE] There's nothing disturbing about owning a gun. I don't think there's any schools that arm their teachers here either, it just goes to show that when we tell you you don't understand, we're not kidding. You're really just that misinformed.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48835096]I don't fucking care. Maybe if you wanted to stop shootings like these you'd be all for more conceal-carry training for everyday people and the removal of "gun free zones" where these incidents [U]always[/U] occur. Name a single fucking time somebody shot up a gun show, where people who don't conceal carry are in the minority and literally everyone has access to firearms. Please. Yes you did, but you're too goddamn naive to understand that sniper rifles are functionally no different than civilian hunting rifles aside from a simple fucking paint job. So tell me, does painting a rifle black make it more deadly? That's what you're asserting, and even if you don't realize it you're arguing from a position of [B]complete[/B] ignorance against somebody who has literally a lifetime of rifle shooting, specifically long-range rifle shooting. Oh, so big weapons are less deadly than small ones according to you because they require some arbitrary prerequisite skill level you're pulling out of your ass. Got it. You bitch about the AR-15 and how we don't need it but in the same fucking post you assert that hunting rifles are somehow more safe? What? A semi-automatic hunting rifle is just as deadly as that AR-15, probably more so given that it's going to be in a higher caliber. Clearly you don't, or else you wouldn't be so fucking wrong. Please, start citing laws that you have an issue with. I don't even think you've reviewed the laws we have on the books let alone understand them, because if you did you'd be fully aware that not "anybody" can buy firearms. Yeah. Sometimes they wear fancy uniforms and have a badge that says "POLICE" on it too. It always is with you fascists, isn't it? It comes down to fear, really, you're afraid that there are normal people just like yourself who aren't scared of what goes bump in the night, so you want the almighty authorities to shove them down to your level so you don't feel inadequate anymore. You don't care about other people's lives, no, deep down all you care about is your own comforts. I have told you ways to preserve life and you reject it because of that feeling of apprehension and uncertainty deep in your belly just can't let you take that risk. Three things completely fucking broken with this stupid argument: - People can simply lie about who they are - Theft of ammonium nitrate isn't hard at all, it comes in 10, 25, or 50lb bags. - You can easily make ammonium nitrate or, even easier, urea nitrate. Ingredients: water, dirt, manure Also 25lbs of ammonium nitrate is plenty enough. 10lbs can make a shaped charge (with a little playing around, pure ANFO won't do for an explosive) that can cut through 150mm of steel armor plate, 5lbs with another 2.5lbs of 1/2" ball bearings packed around it and detonated at chest height can shower a 150ft radius in deadly shrapnel. A straight up 25lb charge of ANFO packed into a backpack and loaded up with all kinds of shrapnel would be devastating in a crowded room, you could kill hundreds without ever picking up a gun. Yeah, no shit. We got that right away when you were absolutely wrong from the moment you made your post. "I shot a gun a couple of times, trust me guys I get it!" Get this everyone! Somebody who hasn't done anything wrong can buy something without the government giving them shit, oh how terrible! No. This is the United fucking States of America, take your fascist nanny state bullshit somewhere else because we have plenty of it here already and we don't need any more.[/QUOTE] So, my views are rendered completely useless because I haven't been brought up around guns? We're both sitting on bias sides, but I really don't appreciate your attitude here. I'm just trying to have some healthy conversation about the issue. Clearly you have a problem with the idea of controlling guns, and I really don't understand why. You're obviously more experienced than me with firearms and gun culture overall, so instead of being condescending, why don't you explain why you think the availability of firearms is not a contributing factor to these [U]near monthly[/U] mass shootings that we are experiencing. Like our President said: [quote]"We [B]are not[/B] the only country on Earth that has people with mental illnesses, or want to do harm to other people. We [B]are[/B] the only advanced country on Earth that sees these kinds of mass shootings every few months." [/quote][quote]"The US is the one advanced nation on Earth in which we do not have sufficient common sense and gun safety laws, even in the face of repeated mass killings."[/quote][quote]"Majority of Americans, including the majority of law abiding gun owners, understand we should be changing these laws." "States with the most gun laws, tend to have the fewest gun deaths."[/quote]
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48835723]Pretty sure those are articles published in peer-reviewed journals.[/QUOTE]I fucked up my post pretty bad, sorry about that. That's what I get for going up and rewriting a line without proofreading it after. Either way it's a little harsh for me to call the guy a quack, he does actually do research but his conclusions and proposals don't address the civil rights aspect nor do they actually address the very core problem but instead use the whole "well guns are scary!" trope. Honestly I'm tired of seeing the guy's name because every time he comes up I have to track down a bunch of shit just to prove him wrong to some shithead who's just going to ignore it anyway. That's not your fault, that's got nothing to do with you and everything to do with years and years of arguing about this and my very, very short patience. That aside, my other issues with what you posted still stand and I'm really not going to go tit-for-tat with every citation. Frankly I'm tired, I know damn well you won't ever change your mind and you're going to go on thinking Americans are barbarians so I [i]really[/i] don't feel it's necessary. I've already proven my side of the argument to you (specifically to you by the way) at least a dozen times, and if it hasn't stuck by now today isn't any different. [editline]5th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=ThePanther;48836605]So, my views are rendered completely useless because I haven't been brought up around guns?[/QUOTE]No, your views are rendered completely useless by the fact that you claim to be informed but yet you're completely wrong. [QUOTE=ThePanther;48836605]We're both sitting on bias sides, but I really don't appreciate your attitude here.[/QUOTE]I'm fed up with this shit, you came in swinging and I had to put a boot in your chest to get you to sit down. I'm not going to apologize for my attitude. [QUOTE=ThePanther;48836605]Clearly you have a problem with the idea of controlling guns, and I really don't understand why. You're obviously more experienced than me with firearms and gun culture overall, so instead of being condescending, why don't you explain why you think the availability of firearms is not a contributing factor to these [U]near monthly[/U] mass shootings that we are experiencing.[/QUOTE]Okay. Fine. I'll do that: - I think the right to arm yourself and defend yourself is a basic human right and a free society should only strip such a right (as any other right) from an individual only through due process in a court of law and judgement passed by a jury of their peers. Legislating everyone's rights away is the behavior of tyrants and an authoritarian society, it is decidedly anti-American and I fully oppose it. - These shootings are a symptom of a problem. Not the problem. You're trying to mop up the blood, I'm trying to cure the hemorrhagic fever causing the blood loss. I think more people should be trained to carry firearms and I think more people should be instilled with the courage to [I]stand up for themselves.[/I] I also think the media should take a step back and realize they're just as at fault as the triggerman, they sensationalize him and turn him into an infamous household name and without them he would been nothing. Eliminating gun free zones would help too, all that does is reassure anyone willing that they're entering into a place where nobody can defend themselves. Mass shootings don't happen around well-armed people, and nearly every single one that's happened since Columbine has been in an area specifically designated as "gun free." Get rid of that shit and let natural order resume, we're becoming less of a violent society every year and this trend shows no sign of stopping.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48836669]I'm fed up with this shit, you came in swinging and I had to put a boot in your chest to get you to sit down. I'm not going to apologize for my attitude.[/QUOTE] lmao no you don't have to "put a boot" in anybodies chest. A lot of us that argue in favour of control have had to put up with passive/ non-passive aggressive shitposts from pro-gun advocates basically since these arguments have been going. With such common rebuttals as "fucking euros...." and "you just don't get it ughh!!!" to usually fairly well explained posts. Rather than actually even consider firearms as a contributing factor to this shit, pro-gun people seem to just expect "fixing mental healthcare" to solve all the problems but never actually expand on how they intend to catch crazies before they do something dumb or what actually needs fixing. Oh and lets not forget the old gold "I have nothing to say but I'll say something anyway of" "STOP TRYING TO CHANGE US!" despite the fact that nobody here is actually capable of, or actively trying to change your laws, rather we are just discussing the merits of any changes. The pro-gun side in these arguments tends to be the first to devolve to petty aggressive shitposts, usually never actually fucking addresses anything posted or when someone comes along who does so is drowned out by libertarian nutcases who think the US should be the old west again.
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