• Obama praises Australia's, UK's gun laws following mass shooting
    400 replies, posted
I like gun control in Ireland. If you take out airsoft pistol in public, you will be intercepted by armed police in few minutes and treated like you are holding real gun and jail time is most likely guaranteed. (Because airsoft weapons in Ireland don't have orange tips or anything). Sure, that builds tension but I kinda feel safer. Over past 9 years of living here, I honestly haven't seen a single real gun, on police or anyone else. I used to play airsoft 4 years ago, I didn't drive back then so I took public transport, I would put rifles and pistols into a gun case and carry it (which was like 1.7 meters long) and I would often be approached by public transport guards, they would often just ask whats inside and then say: "Just make sure to not take it out in public otherwise we will have to call Garda/Police". tbh, at this point it sounds like americans don't care if someone is killed as long as their guns are safe with them but I guess it's just human nature in general - until it hits you, you don't care. Pretty sure if you love your guns and someone close to you gets shot by random guy on street, that would change your views on guns, if not - you're probably just insensitive asshat. I remember few years ago, some two asshats decided to try shoot glock (seems to be most common firearm in Ireland) in their back garden, someone heard it and called cops. Guys got locked up for a good few years.
[QUOTE=arleitiss;48807923]I like gun control in Ireland. If you take out airsoft pistol in public, you will be intercepted by armed police in few minutes and treated like you are holding real gun and jail time is most likely guaranteed. (Because airsoft weapons in Ireland don't have orange tips or anything). Sure, that builds tension but I kinda feel safer. Over past 9 years of living here, I honestly haven't seen a single real gun, on police or anyone else. I used to play airsoft 4 years ago, I didn't drive back then so I took public transport, I would put rifles and pistols into a gun case and carry it (which was like 1.7 meters long) and I would often be approached by public transport guards, they would often just ask whats inside and then say: "Just make sure to not take it out in public otherwise we will have to call Garda/Police". tbh, at this point it sounds like americans don't care if someone is killed as long as their guns are safe with them but I guess it's just human nature in general - until it hits you, you don't care. Pretty sure if you love your guns and someone close to you gets shot by random guy on street, that would change your views on guns, if not - you're probably just insensitive asshat.[/QUOTE] A gun is just a tool, it's the user that makes them dangerous. the primary function of guns in my family is to put food on the table, and for that reason I can't give them up. if a loved one got killed with a screwdriver or a hammer I'm not going to try and get screwdrivers or hammers banned. The gun didn't do anything, the user picked it up, pointed it the wrong way, and pulled the trigger, and the user is the only thing I'll blame.
[QUOTE=-nesto-;48805970]It takes 13 people dying for him to say something yet HUNDREDS of young black males die every year in his hometown and he doesn't give a shit. He's trying to politicize a tragedy to push his stupid fucking agendas.[/QUOTE] "Less people dying to gun violence" isn't a stupid agenda :v:
[QUOTE=butre;48807952]A gun is just a tool, it's the user that makes them dangerous. the primary function of guns in my family is to put food on the table, and for that reason I can't give them up. if a loved one got killed with a screwdriver or a hammer I'm not going to try and get screwdrivers or hammers banned. The gun didn't do anything, the user picked it up, pointed it the wrong way, and pulled the trigger, and the user is the only thing I'll blame.[/QUOTE] Yeah but it's harder to kill 20 people in a minute with screwdriver or a hammer than it is with a gun.
[QUOTE=butre;48807952]A gun is just a tool, it's the user that makes them dangerous. [B]the primary function of guns in my family is to put food on the table, and for that reason I can't give them up.[/B] if a loved one got killed with a screwdriver or a hammer I'm not going to try and get screwdrivers or hammers banned. The gun didn't do anything, the user picked it up, pointed it the wrong way, and pulled the trigger, and the user is the only thing I'll blame.[/QUOTE] Terrible argument. In countries with gun control, hunting is still allowed. Also, screwdrivers and hammers aren't tools made specifically for killing / destroying things, they're tools with other very specific purposes. And as such, they aren't anywhere near as effective for killing / destroying.
[QUOTE=arleitiss;48807923]I like gun control in Ireland. If you take out airsoft pistol in public, you will be intercepted by armed police in few minutes and treated like you are holding real gun and jail time is most likely guaranteed. (Because airsoft weapons in Ireland don't have orange tips or anything). Sure, that builds tension but I kinda feel safer. Over past 9 years of living here, I honestly haven't seen a single real gun, on police or anyone else. I used to play airsoft 4 years ago, I didn't drive back then so I took public transport, I would put rifles and pistols into a gun case and carry it (which was like 1.7 meters long) and I would often be approached by public transport guards, they would often just ask whats inside and then say: "Just make sure to not take it out in public otherwise we will have to call Garda/Police". tbh, at this point it sounds like americans don't care if someone is killed as long as their guns are safe with them but I guess it's just human nature in general - until it hits you, you don't care. Pretty sure if you love your guns and someone close to you gets shot by random guy on street, that would change your views on guns, if not - you're probably just insensitive asshat. I remember few years ago, some two asshats decided to try shoot glock (seems to be most common firearm in Ireland) in their back garden, someone heard it and called cops. Guys got locked up for a good few years.[/QUOTE] Pls read the thread, lots of sensible Americans here. Don't generalize
[QUOTE=butre;48807952]A gun is just a tool, it's the user that makes them dangerous. the primary function of guns in my family is to put food on the table, and for that reason I can't give them up. if a loved one got killed with a screwdriver or a hammer I'm not going to try and get screwdrivers or hammers banned. The gun didn't do anything, the user picked it up, pointed it the wrong way, and pulled the trigger, and the user is the only thing I'll blame.[/QUOTE] Guns are not a tool, they are a deadly weapon with a very specific purpose. I don't see you hammering in a nail with the butt of your favorite rifle, or unscrewing the back of your TV with a handgun. The effectiveness of other random objects has no bearing on the killing potential of a firearm.
[QUOTE=butre;48807952]A gun is just a tool, it's the user that makes them dangerous. the primary function of guns in my family is to put food on the table, and for that reason I can't give them up. if a loved one got killed with a screwdriver or a hammer I'm not going to try and get screwdrivers or hammers banned. The gun didn't do anything, the user picked it up, pointed it the wrong way, and pulled the trigger, and the user is the only thing I'll blame.[/QUOTE] Using the "gun is only a tool" argument doesn't work, it's so far from the truth it's not even funny. Although I will agree guns are not the sole issue here, it's just a scapegoat imo
[QUOTE=EvilMattress;48807978]Pls read the thread, lots of sensible Americans here. Don't generalize[/QUOTE] Sorry, I will go through whole thread now, I usually skip all the pages because knowing from past discussions on gun controls on facepunch, it's usually all the same arguments and nothing new.
[QUOTE=arleitiss;48807964]Yeah but it's harder to kill 20 people in a minute with screwdriver or a hammer than it is with a gun.[/QUOTE] If someone really wanted to make a mess and didn't have a gun, they could just make a bomb. Or if they really wanted to, they could just make their own gun, I've seen a guide online on how to make a fully-automatic submachine gun before.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;48808033]If someone really wanted to make a mess and didn't have a gun, they could just make a bomb. Or if they really wanted to, they could just make their own gun, I've seen a guide online on how to make a fully-automatic submachine gun before.[/QUOTE] And are these makeshift weapons just as deadly as a professionally mass-produced gun? Furthermore, making a bomb is more difficult than simply trying to get your hands on a firearm through legal or illegal means, otherwise there would be a lot more bombings going on.
[QUOTE=arleitiss;48807964]Yeah but it's harder to kill 20 people in a minute with screwdriver or a hammer than it is with a gun.[/QUOTE] I can make a bomb that kills a lot quicker than that in a few minutes but you don't see anyone banning fertilizer and diesel [editline]2nd October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Streecer;48808063]And are these makeshift weapons just as deadly as a professionally mass-produced gun? Furthermore, making a bomb is more difficult than simply trying to get your hands on a firearm through legal or illegal means, otherwise there would be a lot more bombings going on.[/QUOTE] explosives are not difficult to make
From an unenlightened standpoint, I'd say that gun owners have to subject themselves to psychological background checks and have their criminal record checked. This solution may have flaws, tell me if there is, but it would be a start.
[QUOTE=butre;48808065]I can make a bomb that kills a lot quicker than that in a few minutes but you don't see anyone banning fertilizer and diesel [editline]2nd October 2015[/editline] explosives are not difficult to make[/QUOTE] There are protections in place to help prevent individuals from creating homemade bombs. Police check every abandoned bag they find on the street, if you order certain items you might get yourself put onto a watchlist, and I'm sure that if you search for information on how to make one something similar will happen; local police and business owners are also trained on how to spot the signs of a bomb being created by the FBI. Nobody bats an eye at a gun, because everybody has one. You don't need to put yourself at risk to get one either. Guns are easier to obtain, and most importantly, are completely legal. As such you see them used in attacks like these.
[QUOTE=Nitro836;48808090]From an unenlightened standpoint, I'd say that gun owners have to subject themselves to psychological background checks and have their criminal record checked. This solution may have flaws, tell me if there is, but it would be a start.[/QUOTE] that's already done
[QUOTE=butre;48808107]that's already done[/QUOTE] It's a shame it doesn't seem to do enough.
[QUOTE=Streecer;48808103]There are protections in place to help prevent individuals from creating homemade bombs. Police check every abandoned bag they find on the street, if you order certain items you might get yourself put onto a watchlist, and I'm sure that if you search for information on how to make one something similar will happen; local police and business owners are also trained on how to spot the signs of a bomb being created by the FBI. Nobody bats an eye at a gun, because everybody has one. You don't need to put yourself at risk to get one either. Guns are easier to obtain, and most importantly, are completely legal. As such you see them used in attacks like these.[/QUOTE] fertilizer and diesel are the only 2 ingredients used in the bomb that leveled the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City. they loaded up the back of a van and parked in front of the building. fertilizer and diesel killed no less than 168 people and injured no less than 680. [editline]2nd October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Nitro836;48808114]It's a shame it doesn't seem to do enough.[/QUOTE] thats because criminals steal guns
[QUOTE=butre;48808122]thats because criminals steal guns[/QUOTE] There's also the whole black market arms thing, which I'm pretty sure account for a lot more than stolen guns do
[QUOTE=butre;48808122]fertilizer and diesel are the only 2 ingredients used in the bomb that leveled the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City. they loaded up the back of a van and parked in front of the building. fertilizer and diesel killed no less than 168 people and injured no less than 680. [editline]2nd October 2015[/editline] thats because criminals steal guns[/QUOTE] A cursory glance at the wikipedia article on the subject shows me that it most definitely wasn't just "fertilizer and diesel", they stole many other components from various sources (most notably items from a quarry), and had to gather thousands of kilograms of explosives without being detected, customize and rig up a van in order to carry them, and get it close to a federal building to detonate.
I agree with everything Obama has said... but couldn't help but notice this while browsing: [img]http://i.imgur.com/DR9MXN0.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Scotchair;48808155]I agree with everything Obama has said... but couldn't help but notice this while browsing: [img]http://i.imgur.com/DR9MXN0.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] There have been over 290 mass shootings in the US this year. How often do we hear about shootings in Australia?
[QUOTE=EvilMattress;48807637]The U.S. is a massive country. And mass shootings, as a statistic, are simply more than 4-5 people being killed in one instance via guns. School shootings and school-associated homicides are defined as: "On school property, on the way to or from regular sessions at school, and while attending or traveling to or from a school-sponsored event." In all reality it's just a bunch of endless buzzwords. [url]http://time.com/3432950/fbi-mass-shooting-report-misleading/[/url] [url]https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/september/fbi-releases-study-on-active-shooter-incidents/pdfs/a-study-of-active-shooter-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013[/url][/QUOTE] So to you, when is too many and action should be taken?
I just want to chip in about the whole hunting thing, it's complete bollocks. I've gone hunting in the UK on farmland perfectly fine before, we may have tight gun control but you're still allowed to hunt easily enough. But what is understandable is banning guns outright in the US is going to an outrageously difficult task considering there are so many of them.
[QUOTE=Thechuz1337;48808348]I just want to chip in about the whole hunting thing, it's complete bollocks. I've gone hunting in the UK on farmland perfectly fine before, we may have tight gun control but you're still allowed to hunt easily enough. But what is understandable is banning guns outright in the US is going to an outrageously difficult task considering there are so many of them.[/QUOTE] an AR15 is the ideal hog hunting firearm. hogs are aggressive and travel in packs, plus are an invasive species that needs to be culled, and on top of that they're delicious
[QUOTE=EvilMattress;48807620]Honestly, why don't you tell me?[/QUOTE] How would I know? I'm Dutch for crying out loud. You seem pretty involved in the whole gun discussion so I wanted to hear your opinion. Why has the firearms death rate in the United States decreased in the last two decades? Is it because of cultural changes, technological advancements, politics or sheer randomness?
[QUOTE=Satansick;48808360]How would I know? I'm Dutch for crying out loud. You seem pretty involved in the whole gun discussion so I wanted to hear your opinion. Why has the firearms death rate in the United States decreased in the last two decades? Is it because of cultural changes, technological advancements, politics or sheer randomness?[/QUOTE] thats an easy one. kids are dumb and the population is getting older. meaning there are less dumb kids to do dumb things
Gun ownership seems to work fine in some european countries despite the fact that you're still able to buy scary things. You have to be a member of a club for x amount of years while owning less scary things before being able to buy scarier things, with private sales being illegal. Maybe you should try something like that ? Gun control isn't necessarily about taking everyone's guns away. Having a bigger obstacle on ownership would help filter out a lot of idiots and spur of the moment spree shooters.
[QUOTE=Satansick;48808360]How would I know? I'm Dutch for crying out loud. You seem pretty involved in the whole gun discussion so I wanted to hear your opinion. Why has the firearms death rate in the United States decreased in the last two decades? Is it because of cultural changes, technological advancements, politics or sheer randomness?[/QUOTE] There's been an interesting hypothesis that the falling crime rate is related to the [URL=http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/] leaded gasoline ban[/URL]. An aging population could also be a factor. And re: the gun debate I still think that the best solution is to crack down on [I]handguns[/I], not long rifles, but with the gun manufacturer lobby and the NRA as politically powerful as they are here that's never going to happen.
[QUOTE=wheel_user;48808403]Gun ownership seems to work fine in some european countries despite the fact that you're still able to buy scary things. You have to be a member of a club for x amount of years while owning less scary things before being able to buy scarier things, with private sales being illegal. Maybe you should try something like that ? Gun control isn't necessarily about taking everyone's guns away. Having a bigger obstacle on ownership would help filter out a lot of idiots and spur of the moment spree shooters.[/QUOTE] Pretty much this. Do this or other similar things and you can still have guns without the situation being absolutely stupid as it is now. You have to have a licence to drive a car so you don't hurt other people with it, but a weapon that can kill people at range very quickly just hand it out freely... what can go wrong?
Gun crime is basically unheard of over here
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