• Obama praises Australia's, UK's gun laws following mass shooting
    400 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Shadow801;48808489]Gun crime is basically unheard of over here[/QUOTE] B-b-but without guns how will you defend yourself against the hordes of knife wielding killers?
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;48808527]B-b-but without guns how will you defend yourself against the hordes of knife wielding killers?[/QUOTE] When I was in school a 26 year old just ran in and stabbed 16 people. No one could do anything.. the horror.. if only we had guns..:hammered:
[QUOTE=Thechuz1337;48808348] But what is understandable is banning guns outright in the US is going to an outrageously difficult task considering there are so many of them.[/QUOTE] It might prove easier to try to wean the population from the internet.
boy i wish i had firearms to keep myself safe from our tyrannical government implementing plastic bag taxation!!!!!!+
[QUOTE=arleitiss;48807923]I like gun control in Ireland. If you take out airsoft pistol in public, you will be intercepted by armed police in few minutes and treated like you are holding real gun and jail time is most likely guaranteed. (Because airsoft weapons in Ireland don't have orange tips or anything). Sure, that builds tension but I kinda feel safer. Over past 9 years of living here, I honestly haven't seen a single real gun, on police or anyone else. I used to play airsoft 4 years ago, I didn't drive back then so I took public transport, I would put rifles and pistols into a gun case and carry it (which was like 1.7 meters long) and I would often be approached by public transport guards, they would often just ask whats inside and then say: "Just make sure to not take it out in public otherwise we will have to call Garda/Police". tbh, at this point it sounds like americans don't care if someone is killed as long as their guns are safe with them but I guess it's just human nature in general - until it hits you, you don't care. Pretty sure if you love your guns and someone close to you gets shot by random guy on street, that would change your views on guns, if not - you're probably just insensitive asshat. I remember few years ago, some two asshats decided to try shoot glock (seems to be most common firearm in Ireland) in their back garden, someone heard it and called cops. Guys got locked up for a good few years.[/QUOTE] Good to see you get off on that kind of stuff [editline]2nd October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Streecer;48808173]There have been over 290 mass shootings in the US this year. How often do we hear about shootings in Australia?[/QUOTE] More if the media didn't focus on the us
[QUOTE=Source;48807588]why is it only singled to young black males? lots of people die to shootings each year, not just young black males.[/QUOTE] Because there's a disproportionate amount of young black males dying compared to most other gender/ racial groups due to gang violence and other factors perhaps? but what do i know it's not like i've read the fbi stat sheets repeatedly for these threads or anything lmao It's completely asinine to think that the ease of access to firearms has nothing to do with the excessive firearms homicide rates of the USA. "Guns aren't the problem" is stupid at best, dishonest at worst. Guns are a part of the problem, as it's quite a multi-faceted issue. Mental healthcare is a part of the problem, culture is a part of the problem, and a number of social issues are part of the problem. But it's not like we have to tackle these one at a time, it's possible to focus on more than one at once.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;48808674]boy i wish i had firearms to keep myself safe from our tyrannical government implementing plastic bag taxation!!!!!!+[/QUOTE] I did an online shop to the tune of £75.16 on tuesday, paid with paypal to get a promotional £10 off. When the shopping arrived I gave the driver a bunch of older bags and they refunded me £1.25 bringing the total below the £75 required thus costing me an additional £8.75, recycling sucks.
I don't get it how is this a hard thing to figure out. Theres a shitload of countries where gun ownership laws are restrictive as fuck, and that has an evident effect on keeping gun violence to a minimum, or even to nothing. Despite that, you guys still argue bigger restrictions isn't the way to go. For fuck sakes, aren't there places where you can literaly get a gun as easy as you let out a fart? [editline]2nd October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Megadave;48808689]More if the media didn't focus on the us[/QUOTE] How many did you hear about from the whole of Europe then?
[QUOTE=kweh;48808749]I don't get it how is this a hard thing to figure out. Theres a shitload of countries where gun ownership laws are restrictive as fuck, and that has an evident effect on keeping gun violence to a minimum, or even to nothing. Despite that, you guys still argue bigger restrictions isn't the way to go. For fuck sakes, aren't there places where you can literaly get a gun as easy as you let out a fart? [editline]2nd October 2015[/editline] How many did you hear about from the whole of Europe then?[/QUOTE] I'm coming to Albufeira on the 17th hope there aren't any guns.
[quote]He said the notion that more guns and less gun control would cause less gun deaths was not supported by polling, or by the majority of law-abiding gun-owning citizens.[/quote] I somehow doubt the majority of us would be against that notion, Obama. Now shut up and go back to keeping armageddon from happening.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48808718]"Guns aren't the problem" is stupid at best, dishonest at worst. Guns are a part of the problem, as it's quite a multi-faceted issue. Mental healthcare is a part of the problem, culture is a part of the problem, and a number of social issues are part of the problem. But it's not like we have to tackle these one at a time, it's possible to focus on more than one at once.[/QUOTE] I agree, but my problem here is that focusing on guns [I]before[/I] focusing on anything else exacerbates the issues. I've got a close friend who was a victim of sexual assault a few years ago. She's 5'4" on a good day and not muscular at all. She works in a bad part of town, often has to stay late, and is reliant on public transportation to get home. She takes self-defense classes and carries a handgun because she isn't going to become a victim again and without a gun she can't compete physically with any man. Get us better mental health care, get us better-funded police who have the manpower to react more quickly to emergencies, get us some solution to this huge poverty issue and increasing social stratification, and then she won't need a gun for self-defense. Start by taking away guns with the promise that we're going to do more soon, though, and all you've done is deprive her of her ability to defend herself. It won't matter if the rapist in the alley has a gun or not, she can't fight physically and is very aware of this. And she's far from the only person in this kind of situation. I'm in favor of tighter regulation, especially on handguns, which account for the overwhelming majority of gun crime. And at the same time, I'm in favor of widespread access to concealed carry permits- a recent study I read even indicated that a CCWer is less likely to commit a violent crime than an off-duty cop. If we could fix all the problems that lead to violence in this country I'd be just fine with giving up my guns, but as it is I'm not going to accept that until the tangible need for self-defense no longer applies. In the meantime I'd much rather we work on keeping guns away from those who shouldn't have them (expanding background checks + incorporating state-level psychiatric data into the NICS), allowing people who demonstrate responsibility to have them (more widespread CC- it's no surprise that these shootings occur in 'gun-free zones'), increasing the penalties for an improperly secured weapon being stolen and used to commit crime, improving police response (body cams are a great start towards restoring the public's trust in police), and working on the underlying issues that lead to gun crime in the first place. Like you said, it's a multi-faceted issue. [QUOTE=kweh;48808749]Despite that, you guys still argue bigger restrictions isn't the way to go. For fuck sakes, aren't there places where you can literaly get a gun as easy as you let out a fart?[/QUOTE] Yes, but not in places where force of law exists. I'm in favor of better restrictions, my problem is that all the restrictions I've seen proposed are essentially feel-good measures. Mandating background checks on private sale isn't going to do a thing because it's totally unenforceable, and most guns used in crime come from family members, straw purchases, or theft. People going through the standard purchase process and passing a background check account for a small minority of armed criminals because the existing system is pretty good at catching them, which is why they use alternative methods. The people that slip through the cracks are usually people with mental health issues that don't get flagged in the NICS and I'd like to see that changed.
[QUOTE=arleitiss;48807923]I like gun control in Ireland. If you take out airsoft pistol in public, you will be intercepted by armed police in few minutes and treated like you are holding real gun and jail time is most likely guaranteed. (Because airsoft weapons in Ireland don't have orange tips or anything). Sure, that builds tension but I kinda feel safer. Over past 9 years of living here, I honestly haven't seen a single real gun, on police or anyone else. I used to play airsoft 4 years ago, I didn't drive back then so I took public transport, I would put rifles and pistols into a gun case and carry it (which was like 1.7 meters long) and I would often be approached by public transport guards, they would often just ask whats inside and then say: "Just make sure to not take it out in public otherwise we will have to call Garda/Police". tbh, at this point it sounds like americans don't care if someone is killed as long as their guns are safe with them but I guess it's just human nature in general - until it hits you, you don't care. Pretty sure if you love your guns and someone close to you gets shot by random guy on street, that would change your views on guns, if not - you're probably just insensitive asshat. I remember few years ago, some two asshats decided to try shoot glock (seems to be most common firearm in Ireland) in their back garden, someone heard it and called cops. Guys got locked up for a good few years.[/QUOTE] As an actual Irish firearm owner, this entire post made me mad. You know fuck all about firearm legislation in Ireland. And living in Dublin doesn't surprise me at all, typical ignorance.
Here's a suggestion, why not allow sane people to have a certain card that allows them to buy whatever weapons they want? Guns aren't automatically going to turn a sane person into a mass murderer (different from what the jacks want you to believe), so this way at least the insane people are outnumbered.
[QUOTE=-nesto-;48805970]It takes 13 people dying for him to say something yet HUNDREDS of young black males die every year in his hometown and he doesn't give a shit. He's trying to politicize a tragedy to push his stupid fucking agendas.[/QUOTE] Maybe because nobody actually cares about the hundreds you mentioned but mass shootings somehow have a much stronger moral impact on people which for politics is the perfect time to convey a message. Most people just don't give half a shit about random blokes dying on the street. You make these random blokes kids, or families living in a public place, and then everyone cares. If you're a politician and you want to convey your agenda (something that every politician in existence does, their primary function is to solve issues and the recurrent nature of mass shootings [I]is[/I] an issue), you have to actually wait for this kind of event because otherwise nobody will listen to you because people are blind morons.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;48808780]I'm coming to Albufeira on the 17th hope there aren't any guns.[/QUOTE] Nope, just beaches. [editline]2nd October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=catbarf;48808869]Yes, but not in places where force of law exists. I'm in favor of better restrictions, my problem is that all the restrictions I've seen proposed are essentially feel-good measures. Mandating background checks on private sale isn't going to do a thing because it's totally unenforceable, and most guns used in crime come from family members, straw purchases, or theft. People going through the standard purchase process and passing a background check account for a small minority of armed criminals because the existing system is pretty good at catching them, which is why they use alternative methods. The people that slip through the cracks are usually people with mental health issues that don't get flagged in the NICS and I'd like to see that changed.[/QUOTE] Only way to solve that is indeed with an upgraded mental health treatment. If only there was a way to stop it at the family member hand down step though. That sounds like the best way to easily get a gun on someone with mental problems.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48805965]This conversation never goes well on Facepunch, can we just not talk about it? There are arguments and valid points on both sides but people treat it like the Germans and the French treated the trenches in World War 1.[/QUOTE] Except... one side, the side that favours strict control is actually graced with countries that have those strict controls and have all but eliminated gun death. The other side, demanding less control, has no evidence that there position would work, and a lot of evidence already suggesting that it doesn't.
I don't believe the guns themselves are the main cause for killing sprees. A firearm is just a tool with different purposes. The human behind the gun is the lethal weapon, not the firearm. If the USA didn't have issues with mental healthcare, poverty and other social issues, there wouldn't be as many killing sprees. The Czech Republic has quite allowing gun laws (owning semi auto military style firearms is allowed) and even conceal carry is allowed. Mass shootings with legal firearms have happened in 2001, 2005, 2008, 2013 and 2015, but it's far less than in the USA. So maybe having a psychological evaluation before getting a firearms license would be a good idea. Some will slip through the system still but it could prevent a lot of mass shootings from happening, alongside improvements to mental healthcare and dealing with poverty and other social issues. Give the sane and law abiding citizens a form of gun owner's card and they can buy whatever gun they like. If guns somehow magically disappeared from the USA without solving all the social issues, we'd be reading about mass stabbings. Killing loads of people with a machete isn't much harder than pulling the trigger of a firearm. In Sweden, we have strict gun laws and therefore, a knife is the most common murder weapon. Instead of shooting incidents (they occur but not in the form of mass shootings), reading about stabbings is very common. And criminals still get access to guns because they don't care about laws in the first place.
[QUOTE=kweh;48808909]If only there was a way to stop it at the family member hand down step though. That sounds like the best way to easily get a gun on someone with mental problems.[/QUOTE] Like I said I think there ought to be harsher penalties for people who buy and own guns legitimately, but intentionally or negligently allow them to be taken and used by someone else. For example, Adam Lanza's mother knew he had issues but didn't secure her guns, and a significant number of people keep their guns just under the bed or on the mantle, and then are surprised when they come home to find their guns have been stolen. These are, IMO, pure negligence. Increase the penalties and maybe people will pay more attention to keeping their guns secure, and maybe think twice about giving a gun to a family member who might misuse it. [QUOTE=Craigewan;48808944]Except... one side, the side that favours strict control is actually graced with countries that have those strict controls and have all but eliminated gun death. The other side, demanding less control, has no evidence that there position would work, and a lot of evidence already suggesting that it doesn't.[/QUOTE] Stop looking at the US as a whole- start looking state-by-state, or better yet city-by-city, and see where the gun violence comes from. I'll tell you right now it's not the ones with strict gun control that have little crime.
[QUOTE=Megadave;48808894]Here's a suggestion, why not allow sane people to have a certain card that allows them to buy whatever weapons they want? Guns aren't automatically going to turn a sane person into a mass murderer (different from what the jacks want you to believe), so this way at least the insane people are outnumbered.[/QUOTE] except i'm fairly sure insane people already aren't allowed to buy guns, and if they are you need to fix that. And it's pretty hard to do a psych evaluation on everyone.
Wasn't there just a shooting in Sydney?
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48807291]No one is questioning why you own a gun. What people are questioning is why it's legal in the first place. Stop being so defensive.[/QUOTE] So no one is questioning why I own one, just the fact that I own one...
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48808966]And criminals still get access to guns because they don't care about laws in the first place.[/QUOTE] So if criminals will break laws no matter what, why bother with laws at all?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48809150]So if criminals will break laws no matter what, why bother with laws at all?[/QUOTE] I'm not saying we don't need laws but forbidding certain objects because they may be used in a malicious way never works out well since criminals don't care. If they want a certain object, a gun for instance, they will get it. Heavily restricting access to certain objects is not an effective way of stopping mass shootings.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48809150]So if criminals will break laws no matter what, why bother with laws at all?[/QUOTE] Certain laws you have to have, the issues with more gun laws is that they would be pointless. As I had stated some months back, a universal background check law, isn't a bad idea, but it has zero enforcement mechanism. The only way to really enforce that is to register guns, that creates issues because there are already 300 million firearms in the US. Registering every privately own firearm would take decades, even if we hired thousands of federal employees just to take up the slack, plus gun sales would have to stop in order to play catch up. That would never happen, of course, it would turn into a complete disaster. As for an Assault weapons ban, we already had one, and it did nothing. Gun crime rates dropped even after it was repealed and continue to be falling to this day. Weapons like the AR-15 are used less than hammers in murders, this coming from the FBI crime stats widely circulated on this forum. As for waiting periods, they are mandatory with pistols, and yet still don't stop many crimes. It's pretty clear newer gun control measures would do very little to prevent more crimes like this. So now, we move on to perhaps making mental health care not so taboo, etc.
I think if you gave people access to free mental health care there may be a big improvement. But us American's think it's a privilege not a right like it should be with all health care.
[QUOTE=Toyhobo;48809035]except i'm fairly sure insane people already aren't allowed to buy guns, and if they are you need to fix that. And it's pretty hard to do a psych evaluation on everyone.[/QUOTE] We likely do have a mental health issue as our firearm suicide rate is nearly twice the amount of our firearm homicide rate. It might seem as insignificant scapegoat at first, but it's a huge amount when you consider amount of deaths from mass shootings.
[QUOTE=SwedishSpy;48809234]I'm not saying we don't need laws but forbidding certain objects because they may be used in a malicious way never works out well since criminals don't care. If they want a certain object, a gun for instance, they will get it. Heavily restricting access to certain objects is not an effective way of stopping mass shootings.[/QUOTE] Let's deregulate grenades and RPGs then. I think America could do with an explosives culture as well as a gun culture, after all people already blow off steam at the range with guns, I think they should be allowed to blow off steam by hurling some grenades and blowing stuff up with rockets as well.
Idk if this has been said, but people saying that "It rarely happens in our country so the US should be able to match those statistics" is not taking into account size. [t]http://40.media.tumblr.com/ad9c4648cb7f9624588a3965da236489/tumblr_mq48lk6GzF1rasnq9o1_1280.jpg[/t] [t]http://static.ijreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Screenshot-6_18_2015-9_43_12-PM.jpg[/t] I wonder what would happen if you were to compare the total shootings in europe per year to that of the US.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48809570]Let's deregulate grenades and RPGs then. I think America could do with an explosives culture as well as a gun culture, after all people already blow off steam at the range with guns, I think they should be allowed to blow off steam by hurling some grenades and blowing stuff up with rockets as well.[/QUOTE] Actually you can own both with proper licenses... Well maybe not hand grenades, I gotta re-check that one. I do know with a proper license you can own a lot of things, such as howitzers, some guy had a Chieftain tank for sale with a working main gun, etc.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48809570]Let's deregulate grenades and RPGs then. I think America could do with an explosives culture as well as a gun culture, after all people already blow off steam at the range with guns, I think they should be allowed to blow off steam by hurling some grenades and blowing stuff up with rockets as well.[/QUOTE] $200 tax stamp per grenade/rocket and it's perfectly legal to own both in the US.
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