• International Red Cross: Gaza blockade is illegal
    137 replies, posted
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22702503]As far as I know Israel wanted to prolong the cease-fire but Hamas didn't.[/QUOTE] "On 4 November 2008, the Israeli military invaded Gaza Strip, entering at least 250 meters inside Palestinian Territory searching for a tunnel. The IDF stated that it was intended for the capture of Israeli soldiers and that it intended to continue with the truce, calling the raid a "pinpoint operation".[33] Hamas and, according to an allegation by the The Huffington Post, one IDF source maintained that it was for defensive purposes.[34] As six members of Hamas were killed,[6][35] it considered this attack a "massive breach of the truce"" From wiki. "The conditions posed by a Hamas delegation in Cairo on December 14, were that the parties return to the original Hamas-Israel ceasefire arrangement. Hamas would undertake to stop all rocket attacks against Israel if the Israelis would agree to open up the border crossings, not to reduce commercial traffic thereafter, and not to launch attacks in Gaza." "At an Israeli Cabinet meeting on December 21, Yuval Diskin, head of Israel's internal security agency, said he thought Hamas was "interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms... It wants us to lift the siege [of Gaza], stop attacks, and extend the truce to include [the West Bank]."" So they wanted the cease-fire, but they wanted at least something in return. In the end they went for the first set of terms, with lesser benefits, but Israel still closed borders on multiple occasions. Hamas viewed these as another breach of the ceasefire.
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;22702551]I'm yet to be given a source where any official Palestinian authorities say that people are starving in Gaza.[/QUOTE] Well palestinian authorities would be biased so lets have a look at a few reports. [url]http://politicom.moldova.org/news/un-report-palestinians-risk-starvation-128987-eng.html[/url] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/half-of-palestinians-in-west-bank-and-gaza-malnourished-437343.html[/url] If you actually think that the palestinians aren't starving you're just in dire need of a brain.
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;22702482]I made the claim first that Israel didn't allow concrete as part of the blockade, he thought they did, but only if legitimate humanitarian groups were receiving it. He asked for a source for my original claim, saying that it would mention the exception he said. We turned out to both be right in our own way; Israel now allows concrete in after the easing, but before the easing, my statement was correct. [editline]07:39AM[/editline] Unless you can find me that PDF from a reliable source, CSM is a good newspaper and a good source.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.gisha.org/UserFiles/File/publications/Products060610_Eng(1).pdf[/url] It doesn't say specifically that concrete is allowed but I am 100% sure that it is amongst the items that humanitarian aid groups can bring into Gaza.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22702661][url]http://www.gisha.org/UserFiles/File/publications/Products060610_Eng(1).pdf[/url] It doesn't say specifically that concrete is allowed but I am 100% sure that it is amongst the items that humanitarian aid groups can bring into Gaza.[/QUOTE] It lists cement under prohibited items...
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;22702565]"On 4 November 2008, the Israeli military invaded Gaza Strip, entering at least 250 meters inside Palestinian Territory searching for a tunnel. The IDF stated that it was intended for the capture of Israeli soldiers and that it intended to continue with the truce, calling the raid a "pinpoint operation".[33] Hamas and, according to an allegation by the The Huffington Post, one IDF source maintained that it was for defensive purposes.[34] As six members of Hamas were killed,[6][35] it considered this attack a "massive breach of the truce"" From wiki. "The conditions posed by a Hamas delegation in Cairo on December 14, were that the parties return to the original Hamas-Israel ceasefire arrangement. Hamas would undertake to stop all rocket attacks against Israel if the Israelis would agree to open up the border crossings, not to reduce commercial traffic thereafter, and not to launch attacks in Gaza." "At an Israeli Cabinet meeting on December 21, Yuval Diskin, head of Israel's internal security agency, said he thought Hamas was "interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms... It wants us to lift the siege [of Gaza], stop attacks, and extend the truce to include [the West Bank]."" So they wanted the cease-fire, but they wanted at least something in return. In the end they went for the first set of terms, with lesser benefits, but Israel still closed borders on multiple occasions. Hamas viewed these as another breach of the ceasefire.[/QUOTE] I see. Well Israel wanted Hamas to release Gilad Shalit (the kidnapped soldier) and linked the cease-fire to his return. Since Hamas wanted Israel to release 1000 terrorist for Gilad Shalit, Israel tried to launch a military operation to find him and release him, but after they failed they offered to return to the cease-fire condition. I think that it was reasonable for Hamas to not agree to prolong the cease-fire, since Israel practically broke it and then just wanted both sides to act as if nothing happened, but I still think it was stupid of them (and it led to operation: Cast Lead). [editline]03:00PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kagrenak;22702671]It lists cement under prohibited items...[/QUOTE] It says that some of these are allowed when humanitarian aid groups are the ones requesting the items, and I am 100% sure that cement and building materials are amongst these items. Also, there have been a few cases where Hamas raided the specific trucks carrying these building materials that were headed to humanitarian groups, and they're using these materials to build tunnels and stuff now.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22702709]I see. Well Israel wanted Hamas to release Gilad Shalit (the kidnapped soldier) and linked the cease-fire to his return. Since Hamas wanted Israel to release 1000 terrorist for Gilad Shalit, Israel tried to launch a military operation to find him and release him, but after they failed they offered to return to the cease-fire condition. I think that it was reasonable for Hamas to not agree to prolong the cease-fire, since Israel practically broke it and then just wanted both sides to act as if nothing happened, but I still think it was stupid of them (and it led to operation: Cast Lead).[/QUOTE] Which you have to admit, was quite an extraordinary response from them, and quite badly over-the-top and unnecessary for what had happened before hand.
[QUOTE=bravehat;22702621]Well palestinian authorities would be biased so lets have a look at a few reports. [url]http://politicom.moldova.org/news/un-report-palestinians-risk-starvation-128987-eng.html[/url] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/half-of-palestinians-in-west-bank-and-gaza-malnourished-437343.html[/url] If you actually think that the palestinians aren't starving you're just in dire need of a brain.[/QUOTE] He specifically asked for a Palestinian authority though. [editline]03:02PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kagrenak;22702727]Which you have to admit, was quite an extraordinary response from them, and quite badly over-the-top and unnecessary for what had happened before hand.[/QUOTE] The response was because rocket fire not only continued after the cease-fire, but greatly intensified.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22702709] It says that some of these are allowed when humanitarian aid groups are the ones requesting the items, and I am 100% sure that cement and building materials are amongst these items. Also, there have been a few cases where Hamas raided the specific trucks carrying these building materials that were headed to humanitarian groups, and they're using these materials to build tunnels and stuff now.[/QUOTE] I'm still holding to the CSM article that says that they didn't allow cement or concrete in at all, and now they're allowing aid groups to bring it in. Until you find a source that specifically denotes an except for concrete/cement. [editline]08:03AM[/editline] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22702730]He specifically asked for a Palestinian authority though. [editline]03:02PM[/editline] The response was because rocket fire not only continued after the cease-fire, but greatly intensified.[/QUOTE] Before Cast Lead it was about the same as ceasefire levels. And even with the increased rockets, it was still an unbalanced response.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22702459]The Jews weren't a risk to German security, at least not a reasonable risk. The Hamas is a reasonable risk to Israeli security and the wall is an effective way to stop it without causing too much harm. Tell me please, how is the wall so hurtful to them, when it's just on Israel's borders with Gaza, and the Palestinians would still not be able to go into Israel even without the wall?[/QUOTE] Like I said, no matter what risk the occupied force poses, that does not mean something that really fucks up the occupied population collectively is good only because it is beneficial to the occupying force. Nazis believed that to solve Germany's problems was to lock Jews up. Just because it helped the Germans while disregarding the Jews doesn't mean it's necessary. And to answer your question, the wall is not separate the border or suicide bombers only. [release] The barrier has many effects on Palestinians including reduced freedoms, reduction of the amount of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces_checkpoint"]Israel Defense Forces checkpoints[/URL], road closures, loss of land, increased difficulty in accessing medical and educational services in Israel,[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-Stratton07-38"][39][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-Qato07-39"][40][/URL] restricted access to water sources, and economic effects. [B]Reduced freedoms[/B] In a 2005 report, the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations"]United Nations[/URL] stated that: “ ...it is difficult to overstate the humanitarian impact of the Barrier. The route inside the West Bank severs communities, people’s access to services, livelihoods and religious and cultural amenities. In addition, plans for the Barrier’s exact route and crossing points through it are often not fully revealed until days before construction commences. This has led to considerable anxiety amongst Palestinians about how their future lives will be impacted...The land between the Barrier and the Green Line constitutes some of the most fertile in the West Bank. It is currently the home for 49,400 West Bank Palestinians living in 38 villages and towns.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-humanitarianinfo_Rprt05-40"][41][/URL] ” — Introduction UN report Pg4 An often-quoted example of the effects of the barrier is the Palestinian town of Qalqilyah, a city of around 45,000, which is surrounded on all sides by the barrier. One 8 meter-high concrete section of this wall follows the Green Line between the city and the nearby Trans-Israel Highway. This section, referred to as an "anti-sniper wall," has been claimed to prevent gun attacks against Israeli motorists on the Trans-Israel Highway.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-BBC_Q.26A_September_2005-41"][42][/URL] The city is accessible through a military checkpoint on the main road from the east, and an underground tunnel built in September 2004 on the south side connects Qalqilyah with the adjacent village of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habla"]Habla[/URL]. Recently, the Israeli Supreme Court ordered the government to change the route of the barrier in this area to ease movement of Palestinians between Qalqilyah and five surrounding villages. In the same ruling, the court rejected the arguments that the fence must be built only on the Green Line. The ruling cited the topography of the terrain, security considerations, and sections 43 and 52 of The Hague Regulations 1907 and Article 53 of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention"]Fourth Geneva Convention[/URL] as reasons for this rejection.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-HCF-0"][1][/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Palestinian_children_and_Israeli_wall.jpg"] [/URL] In early October 2003, the IDF OC [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Central_Command"]Central Command[/URL] declared the area between the separation barrier in the northern section of the West Bank (Stage 1) and the Green Line a closed military area for an indefinite period of time. New directives stated that every Palestinian over the age of twelve living in the enclaves created in the closed area have to obtain a “permanent resident permit” from the Civil Administration to enable them to continue to live in their homes. Other residents of the West Bank have to obtain special permits to enter the area.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-BTStat-1"][2][/URL] [B]Loss of land[/B] See also: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seam_Zone"]Seam Zone[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_demolition_in_the_Israeli-Palestinian_conflict"]House demolition in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict[/URL] Parts of the barrier are built on land seized from Palestinians.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-BBC_Q.26A_September_2005-41"][42][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-CNN_November_2003-46"][47][/URL] In a 2009 report, the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN"]UN[/URL] noted that the most recent barrier route allocates more segments to be built on the Green Line itself compared to previous draft routes of the barrier. However, in its current route the Wall is annexing 9.5% of the total area of the West Bank to the Israeli side of the barrier.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-ochajuly2009-47"][48][/URL] In early 2003, 63 shops straddling the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Line"]Green Line[/URL] were demolished by the IDF during construction of the wall in the village of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nazlat_Issa&action=edit&redlink=1"]Nazlat Issa[/URL].[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-humanitarianinfo_2004-48"][49][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-nytimes_Jan_2003-49"][50][/URL] In August 2003, an additional 115 shops and stalls (an important source of income for several communities) and five to seven homes there were also demolished.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-50"][51][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-51"][52][/URL] According to the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Relief_and_Works_Agency"]United Nations Relief and Works Agency[/URL] (UNRWA), 15 communities were to be directly affected, numbering approximately 138,593 Palestinians, including 13,450 refugee families, or 67,250 individuals. In addition to loss of land, in the city of Qalqilyah one-third of the city's water wells lie on the other side of the barrier. The Israeli Supreme Court notes the Israeli government's rejection of accusations of a [I]de facto[/I] annexation of these wells, stating that "the construction of the fence does not affect the implementation of the water agreements determined in the (interim) agreement".[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-HCF-0"][1][/URL] The [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Economic_and_Social_Commission_for_Western_Asia"]United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia[/URL] (ESCWA) estimates that in the north of the West Bank approximately 80 per cent of Palestinians who own land on the other side of the barrier have not received permits from the Israeli authorities, and hence cannot cultivate their fields.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-52"][53][/URL] [B][[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israeli_West_Bank_barrier&action=edit&section=15"]edit[/URL]] Health and medical services[/B] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9decins_du_Monde"]Médecins du Monde[/URL], the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Red_Cross_and_Red_Crescent_Movement"]Palestinian Red Crescent Society[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicians_for_Human_Rights"]Physicians for Human Rights-Israel[/URL] have stated that the barrier "harms West Bank health".[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-BBC_Feb_2005-53"][54][/URL] Upon completion of the construction, the organizations predict, the barrier would prevent over 130,000 Palestinian children from being immunised, and deny more than 100,000 pregnant women (out of which 17,640 are high risk pregnancies) access to healthcare in Israel. In addition, almost a third of West Bank villages will suffer from lack of access to healthcare. After completion, many residents may lose complete access to emergency care at night. In towns near Jerusalem ([URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Dis"]Abu Dis[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Eizariya"]al-Eizariya[/URL]), for example, average time for an ambulance to travel to the nearest hospital has increased from 10 minutes to over 110 minutes.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-bmj_2005-54"][55][/URL] A report from [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicians_for_Human_Rights"]Physicians for Human Rights[/URL]-Israel states that the barrier imposes "almost-total separation" on the hospitals from the population they are supposed to serve.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-phr_2005-55"][56][/URL] The report also noted that patients from the West Bank visiting Jerusalem's Palestinian clinics declined by half from 2002 to 2003. [B]Human rights organizations[/B] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_International"]Amnesty International[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch"]Human Rights Watch[/URL] and other [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_groups_and_the_Middle_East"]Human rights groups[/URL] have protested both the routing of the wall and the means by which the land to build the wall was obtained.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-87"][88][/URL] In a 2004 report Amnesty International wrote that "The fence/wall, in its present configuration, violates Israel’s obligations under international humanitarian law."[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-autogenerated2-88"][89][/URL] They continue:[INDENT] Since the summer of 2002 the Israeli army has been destroying large areas of Palestinian agricultural land, as well as other properties, to make way for a fence/wall which it is building in the West Bank. In addition to the large areas of particularly fertile Palestinian farmland that have been destroyed, other larger areas have been cut off from the rest of the West Bank by the fence/wall. The fence/wall is not being built between Israel and the Occupied Territories but mostly (close to 90%) inside the West Bank, turning Palestinian towns and villages into isolated enclaves, cutting off communities and families from each other, separating farmers from their land and Palestinians from their places of work, education and health care facilities and other essential services. This in order to facilitate passage between Israel and more than 50 illegal Israeli settlements located in the West Bank.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-autogenerated2-88"][89][/URL] [/INDENT][/release] And an Israeli Human Rights group at the checkpoint describes the typical daily life for Palestinians. [release] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machsom_Watch"]Machsom Watch[/URL], an Israeli women's human rights group, who were at [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ras"]al-Ras[/URL] checkpoint, describes a typical daily life of Palestinians in West Bank:[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-103"][104][/URL][INDENT] [LIST] [*]13.50: All people (male and female) between the ages of 16 to 30 who are residents of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulkarem"]Tulkarem[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nablus"]Nablus[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenin"]Jenin[/URL], and the villages surrounding these towns, are not allowed southward. [/LIST] [LIST] [*]14.44: A car with a bridegroom arrives at the checkpoint. His wedding is in [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beit_Lid"]Beit Lid[/URL]. However he is from Tulkarem and young and he is told he can't pass through. A relative of his who is from Taibe and who speaks fluent Hebrew, tries to talk to all the soldiers to convince them to let him pass through. [/LIST] [LIST] [*]14.50: The bus with only women and children who are heading to Beit Lid for the wedding arrives at the checking booth. IDs are checked. Five of the young women, some with young children, are from Tulkarem and are told to leave the bus. [/LIST] [LIST] [*]14.59: They are not allowed to pass. They get a taxi on the other side of the street to go back home. The bridegroom has still not been allowed through. Aunts, uncles and other relatives are all standing around trying to figure out what to do. The relative from Taibe continues to go from one soldier to the other to ask for help. [/LIST] [LIST] [*]15.10: The bridegroom is told he cannot go through. He stands to the side. [/LIST] [LIST] [*]15.37: The bridegroom is sent home. [/LIST] [/INDENT][/release]
[QUOTE=bravehat;22702621]Well palestinian authorities would be biased so lets have a look at a few reports. [url]http://politicom.moldova.org/news/un-report-palestinians-risk-starvation-128987-eng.html[/url] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/half-of-palestinians-in-west-bank-and-gaza-malnourished-437343.html[/url] If you actually think that the palestinians aren't starving you're just in dire need of a brain.[/QUOTE] I don't care about European sources. I want Palestinian sources.
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;22702806]I don't care about European sources. I want Palestinian sources.[/QUOTE] So you actually want a biased source? The palestinian government could lie through there teeth saying there are people dying in the streets like africans, and you still want it? There is also the possibility that they wont say anything about it because they feel Israel may see it as a sign of weakness.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22702709]I see. Well Israel wanted Hamas to release Gilad Shalit (the kidnapped soldier) and linked the cease-fire to his return. Since Hamas wanted Israel to release [B]1000 terrorist for Gilad Shalit,.[/B] [/QUOTE] Nope. Hamas said they will release him in exchange for the release of 20 women and children imprisoned.
[QUOTE=bravehat;22702831]So you actually want a biased source? The palestinian government could lie through there teeth saying there are people dying in the streets like africans, and you still want it? There is also the possibility that they wont say anything about it because they feel Israel may see it as a sign of weakness.[/QUOTE] Yes, I don't care if it's biased or anything. I just want a Palestinian source.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22702849]Nope. Hamas said they will release him in exchange for the release of 20 women and children imprisoned.[/QUOTE] Can you post a source for that? I'd like to read it.
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;22702854]Yes, I don't care if it's biased or anything. I just want a Palestinian source.[/QUOTE] Yeah my opinion is now set in stone, you're retarded :downs:
[QUOTE=bravehat;22702865]Yeah my opinion is now set in stone, you're retarded :downs:[/QUOTE] I'm a retard because I want a Palestinian source? Interesting logic indeed.
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;22702872]I'm a retard because I want a Palestinian source? Interesting logic indeed.[/QUOTE] No, cause you want a biased source. And a palestinian source will be naturally biased.
Yes but I don't care if it's biased or not, I just want a Palestinian source. What's the problem with that?
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;22702883]Yes but I don't care if it's biased or not, I just want a Palestinian source. What's the problem with that?[/QUOTE] :google: :downs:
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;22702883]Yes but [B]I don't care if it's biased or not, I just want a Palestinian source.[/B] What's the problem with that?[/QUOTE] [img]http://9gag.com/photo/20726_540.jpg[/img] The first rule, of dealing with any sources, witnesses and the like in any field, is to get an unbiased story so you can work out the facts of what's happened, biased sources tend to lie.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;22702862]Can you post a source for that? I'd like to read it.[/QUOTE] One sec
[QUOTE=bravehat;22702927][QUOTE=Crhem van der B;22702883]Yes but [B]I don't care if it's biased or not, I just want a Palestinian source.[/B] What's the problem with that?[/QUOTE] [img]http://9gag.com/photo/20726_540.jpg[/img] The first rule, of dealing with any sources, witnesses and the like in any field, is to get an unbiased story so you can work out the facts of what's happened, biased sources tend to lie.[/QUOTE] Well, most news is biased in one form or another. You could read multiple articles from multiple viewpoints and then pick your stance
bravehat - is it me, or it looks like there isn't a single Palestinian source that actually states starvation in Gaza? Been googling for a bit, and noticed that all sources are UN, British, American.
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;22703029]bravehat - is it me, or it looks like there isn't a single Palestinian source that actually states starvation in Gaza? Been googling for a bit, and noticed that all sources are UN, British, American.[/QUOTE] And your point is?
So that's like, thousands of people are condemning israel but for SOME REASON we're still supporting them? The US sucks, I'm moving.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;22702862]Can you post a source for that? I'd like to read it.[/QUOTE] Ah, it appears I was wrong. The 20 release deal was for a video. [release][B] In exchange for his release, Hamas is demanding the release of all female and underage [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_prisoners"]Palestinian prisoners[/URL] held in Israel[/B], as well as a further 100 prisoners, a number of which are convicted by Israeli courts on terrorism charges.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit#cite_note-13"][14][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit#cite_note-14"][15][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit#cite_note-15"][16][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit#cite_note-16"][17][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit#cite_note-17"][18][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit#cite_note-18"][19][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit#cite_note-19"][20][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit#cite_note-20"][21][/URL] [/release]
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;22703029]bravehat - is it me, or it looks like there isn't a single Palestinian source that actually states starvation in Gaza? Been googling for a bit, and noticed that all sources are UN, British, American.[/QUOTE] [quote=AIG]However, despite its frequent use of frightening violence, Israel does not succeed in attaining its goals. Take Gaza, for example. Israel has employed all means in Gaza, to no end: “targeted” and massive bombings, limited and expanded ground forces, a brutal siege, starvation, destruction of infrastructure, a partial occupation and essentially, what didn’t it try? None of this resulted in the desired outcomes, such as an uprising of the population in Gaza against the Hamas movement (just as the masses in Lebanon did not come out against Hizbullah). Moreover, the Israeli leadership is unable to understand that destruction in horrifying proportions, massive killings that do not spare the elderly, women and children, and the almost sickening Israeli aspiration/desire to see Arabs surrendering and waving white flags is the problem and not the solution. [/quote] here's one paragraph from this article: [url]http://www.alternativenews.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1703:israels-colonial-war-against-the-gaza-strip-&catid=119:english&Itemid=878[/url] AIG is a join Palestinian-Isreali news organization. i'll try to find more. heres another article from the Arab Media News Network:[url]http://www.amin.org/articles.php?t=ENews&id=3151[/url]
[QUOTE=Hoffa1337;22703035]And your point is?[/QUOTE] Oh, I don't know, maybe that all this "hunger and starvation" is just a huge bloated media thing? After googling for over an hour, I found a UK source with a Hamas official: [quote]"There is no starvation in Gaza," said Khalil Hamada, a senior official at Hamas's ministry of justice. "No-one has died of hunger.[/quote] Source: [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7806209/Dispatch-Just-how-hungry-is-Gaza.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;22703156]Oh, I don't know, maybe that all this "hunger and starvation" is just a huge bloated media thing? After googling for over an hour, I found a UK source with a Hamas official: Source: [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7806209/Dispatch-Just-how-hungry-is-Gaza.html[/url][/QUOTE] So without help sendings the Palestines would make it on their own?
I never said they would, just everyone is implying that there's starvation in Gaza when there's not. Most of the aid is from Israel anyway.
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